Bioshock demo on the Xbox Live marketplace

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-16 02:30am

Sadly, it looked like a single-poly water surface slowly rising with 2d bitmap 'splashes' at rough patches to me. I'm jaded.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-08-16 02:34am

I liked it when I tried playing it the first time, but when I was watching my friend play it during that scene he stopped at the last door and turned around to see if it would keep flooding. But it didn't. Got to the last steps and stopped. That kinda bugged me. I know it's probably not something they can do, since it would require flodding every place with an open door and it's easier to just shuffle the player along, but ehhh.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-16 02:37am

Yeah, the flooding is all 100% scripted 'cutscene' stuff. There's no actual danger, there's no dynamic flooding, etc.

Real flooding would have resulted in ever 12 year old idiot whinging that it made the game 'too hard' and that games with time limits (like the city flooding) are 'stupid'.

I wish they'd stop releasing totally unrepresentative demos for games, though. Bioshock is being sold on the back of interesting, emergent gameplay and cool abilities and synergies. Giving us a tiny, scripted demo with nothing at all beyond 'shotz ur dudez' does NOT show these attributes off.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-08-16 03:04am

Oh, I liked the begining with the plane crash and the trip to the city. That had pretty good atmosphere (well, aside from the "Why isn't this guy totally flipping out over this underwater city?" part, since they decided to give the main character a voice). I was just kind of disappointed that there wasn't random flooding going on. Maybe there will be later on in the game (hopefully something you can trigger as a trap or some such).

Yeah, it was certainly way too short and way too scripted. They also pushed the whole "YOU ARE DESTINED TO BE SOMEONE AWESOME" thing, which annoyed me. Especially the Little Sister calling you an angel. Why can't he just be some normal chump?

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2007-08-16 03:51am

This game had me sold on the art style and original setting fairly early on, as there's just not much of that kind of innovation going in in the FPS genre. The emergent gameplay elements of it sounded nice, but I know from past experience the implementation of those can be a very hit or miss affair often riddled with game breaking exploits (see: Black and White 2).

The section with the tunnel is a sign of the times. Had the game been made a few years ago I'm pretty sure that tunnel would have filled with water and drowned the player, but as mentioned loads of people would then have been pissed at dying and may have (in the studios mind) decided not to buy the game. When I played it I realised immediately that the tunnel was not going to fill, however I 'acted' as if it would while playing. I don't know whether that's a good or bad habit, but it seems I have trained myself to try to not compromise my suspension of disbelief when faced with unrealistic level design.

Also I hope they cut some dialogue or sections out of the demo, the way your character walked right up to the Plasmid dispenser and injected the huge syringe of glowing chemicals into his wrist without any prompting or hesitation was ridiculous.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2007-08-16 04:00am

It looks like Bioshock might be a repeat of STALKER: extremely ambitious, interesting ideas... that get cut, removed or make the game too hard, so you're left with another linear corridor shooter with art deco trappings.

CaptHawkeye · Post by **CaptHawkeye** » 2007-08-16 09:42am

Stark wrote:It looks like Bioshock might be a repeat of STALKER: extremely ambitious, interesting ideas... that get cut, removed or make the game too hard, so you're left with another linear corridor shooter with art deco trappings.

Another example, Deus Ex Invisible War. A shooter with "spells", that suffered from very constrained gameplay despite developer claims of open ended nature.

And it also suffered from cripplingly retarded/simplified gameplay so the game didn't get "too hard".

"You've killed lots of our men and ruined our plans numerous times over, but we'll still give you missions."

Max · Post by **Max** » 2007-08-16 11:31am

Erik von Nein wrote:Especially the Little Sister calling you an angel. Why can't he just be some normal chump?

Per Wiki:

Gatherers: (Little Sisters) The Little Sisters, currently portrayed as genetically modified prepubescent girls, were originally conceived as slug-like, genetically modified sea creatures[10]. They were created by a scientist named Dr. Tenebaum as a solution to the ADAM shortage. The Gatherers extract the inert ADAM from the dead (which they call "angels") using retractable needles and consume it, their bodies reprocessing it into a usable form.

I read more about the game after I went through that scene, so it would make more sense. It was slightly confusing to me the first time I played through. So, at first, she thinks you're dead (an angel), but then realizes you're alive (a chump). =)

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2007-08-16 03:33pm

Aaron Ash wrote: The section with the tunnel is a sign of the times. Had the game been made a few years ago I'm pretty sure that tunnel would have filled with water and drowned the player, but as mentioned loads of people would then have been pissed at dying and may have (in the studios mind) decided not to buy the game. When I played it I realised immediately that the tunnel was not going to fill, however I 'acted' as if it would while playing. I don't know whether that's a good or bad habit, but it seems I have trained myself to try to not compromise my suspension of disbelief when faced with unrealistic level design.

I don't think it would have. Part of the problem with the flooding sequence would be where would the water go when the tunnel flooded. If it flooded too far, the game could potentially be locked in an unwinnable state. Not so bad early on, but very annoying late in a game if a similar sequence occurs. (I know people who have never finished KotOR because you can make the last fight unwinnable with certain character paths, and they're put off doing the whole thing again)

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2007-08-16 05:17pm

Vendetta wrote:I don't think it would have. Part of the problem with the flooding sequence would be where would the water go when the tunnel flooded. If it flooded too far, the game could potentially be locked in an unwinnable state. Not so bad early on, but very annoying late in a game if a similar sequence occurs. (I know people who have never finished KotOR because you can make the last fight unwinnable with certain character paths, and they're put off doing the whole thing again)

If they wanted to do dynamic flooding all they would have needed do is separate various areas with airlocks (is it called an airlock if it's underwater?). They would hardly be an unusual feature for a 1950's underwater city. That way when a section floods the player simply has to move into the nearest airlock and activate it, the door closes behind them, the water drains then the door ahead of them opens. You could set the larger areas to automatically drain and repair themselves after a set time (from the intro to the demo it looks like the Big Daddys perform repairs on Rapture). Similar system have been done in FPS games before, such as the outdoor Mars surface sections of Doom 3.

We should probably wait and play the actual game though, for all we know there might actually be a similar system in the (presumably more open) later levels.

The reviews coming in are all extremely positive. I really can't wait to get my hands of this game. Though one thing that seems a shame to me is the lack of coop, as I have fond memories of coop mode in System Shock 2.

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2007-08-16 05:22pm

(is it called an airlock if it's underwater?).

Yes. Airlocks are also used aboard submarines, diving chambers, and underwater habitats. They are normally of the "flooding" type, however, so entering a flooded area would, realistically, cause the airlock to flood in order to equalize everything.

Erik von Nein · Post by **Erik von Nein** » 2007-08-16 09:40pm

Max wrote:I read more about the game after I went through that scene, so it would make more sense. It was slightly confusing to me the first time I played through. So, at first, she thinks you're dead (an angel), but then realizes you're alive (a chump). =)

Well, that's reassuring. That scence and the one on the plane (with the main character saying his parents told him he was destined for greatness) had me worried there.

Jade Falcon · Post by **Jade Falcon** » 2007-08-18 02:00pm

Vendetta wrote:I don't think it would have. Part of the problem with the flooding sequence would be where would the water go when the tunnel flooded. If it flooded too far, the game could potentially be locked in an unwinnable state. Not so bad early on, but very annoying late in a game if a similar sequence occurs. (I know people who have never finished KotOR because you can make the last fight unwinnable with certain character paths, and they're put off doing the whole thing again)

No One Lives Forever 2 had a villains base that got flooded and if you didn't get out of certain areas sharpish, you were stuffed.