Bioshock... Tuesday!

[Xisiqomelir]

Of course, I'm ignoring http://www.sonydefenseforce.com/?p=83, a fine journalist who doesn't like bioshock on the 360 or PC since it doesn't have blue-ray and isn't on the PS3.

That site is the product of the collaboration between m0dus, the Forza 2 custom modeller of NeoGAF, and Razoric, the owner of Wii60.com. Don't take satire so seriously

[nickolay1]

I just played the demo and I have to say that I'm as "impressed" as I was when I first played FEAR.

[Gaidin]

I just played the demo and I have to say that I'm as "impressed" as I was when I first played FEAR.

I missed your review of FEAR...fill in the blanks?

[nickolay1]

The atmosphere in the demo was rather poor. Here are just a few things I noticed:

During the opening cutscene, as the plane began to descend, a computerized voice could be heard saying "altitude - pull up." That shit didn't exist in 1960.

After the crash occurred, the tail of the plane was broken off and intact. It then sunk slowly, in a manner like the Titanic. Instead, it should have been obliterated upon impact.


The bathyscaphe's main window looked like it was designed for fashion rather than function.

The "short-wave radio" had no problems receiving a signal through thick metal walls.

After the bathyscaphe surfaced in the underwater city, the door was just opened, without any kind of implosive effect. Note that it did not undergo compression after initially being sealed at sea level.

The syringes used to "rewrite genetic code" of the player and to replenish EVE reserves were gargantuan, yet the process of injection took at most a couple of seconds. I really doubt the character has veins of steel...

[Drooling Iguana]

Nitpickery, thy name is nickolay1.

[The Yosemite Bear]

dammit AT&T I wait 3 hours in fileplanet to download this demo and your network crashes for yosemite area, when I finally reach #4 in line...

[Shinova]

nickolay1 is incapable of suspension of disbelief. And is incapable of using the word 'atmosphere' correctly.



I played the demo. It is TRIPPY. I think the reviewers are right, and this game really does show something beyond the usual. The atmosphere (the correct term, not nickolay's version) is great for me. A deep sense of wrongness totally permeates everything. (of course that becomes evident in the opening scene yeah )



A negative though is that the demo kinda shows that console-itis that plague ports or multi-format games. The title interface and options are primitive and I have no idea why I cannot bind certain keys. Another bad thing is that the game might suffer from what Prey suffers which is that you can never truly die. This I'm not sure on but it might be the case.

Performance on the other hand is great. I'm surprised Unreal Engine 3 runs decent on my machine, with 1024x768 res and mostly high settings.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

Just finished the demo. It's not very kind on my wimpy setup (A64 3000+, 1 GB RAM, 7600 GT), but runs OK at 1280 x 720 with medium settings. Graphics ranged from pretty good to amazing at those settings, and would probably be a lot better with a fast rig.

The usual whining from people expecting non-linear, unscripted gameplay is no surprise. It's definitely a game in the Half-Life fashion, which means it's linear, uses heavy scripting, yet is totally awesome. The video they show at the end of the demo shows some pretty unique tactics you can use with the weapons and powers, although you don't see much of that in the demo. All in all, my impression is that the high review scores are deserved, although I'll probably hold off a few months getting it until I have a rig that can do it justice.

[Hotfoot]

nickolay1 is incapable of suspension of disbelief. And is incapable of using the word 'atmosphere' correctly.

I had trouble suspending disbelief as well to be honest, albeit for different reasons. I can knock around big, full bits of luggage, but not an empty, spindly baby carriage. I can toss around bodies by smacking them and they have ragdoll, but not the cat corpse I found. One electricity bolt concentrated at one person simply stuns them but dispersed into water, it can kill multiple people over a pretty long period of time. Time freezes during a hack, meaning you can do it in combat with no consequences. The statue of Ryan in the beginning looks WAY too intentionally menacing, rather than welcoming. Atlas knows WAY too much about what's going on during any specific instance. There is NO in game motivation to go inside the lighthouse at first, much less down the bathysphere, much less taking your first plasmid. It all smacks of "Do this to let the game continue. Don't question it." That's unacceptable in a story-heavy game. The vita-chambers make NO goddamn sense at all. This is your first time here, and before you even shoot up a god damned plasmid they recognize you? You don't even have to interact with them, they just work, but just FOR YOU, nobody else. These magic machines always work, while the rest of the city is in ruins. Way to take me out of the moment, especially when the mystery of these machines is ruined by the little help menu that tells you all you need to know about everything, including a perfect map of the zone you're in right now.

A deep sense of wrongness totally permeates everything.

Man, ain't that the truth. Admittedly, it looks like a sort of fun game, but given that it's ~20 hours if you take your time (wtf?), I can't fathom spending $60 on the thing, much less more for a pewter Big Daddy.

[Darwin]

Sadly the demo, since it basically goes over the first level of the game, doesn't go at all into the depth of what you'll be doing, and your options within the game, so in that respect, as a demo, it fails.

sure is pretty on my 8800GTX though. And since I know the game history of those who made it well, it's just a no brainer. Try and excuse the linearity of the stuff in the demo.

[Darwin]

A negative though is that the demo kinda shows that console-itis that plague ports or multi-format games. The title interface and options are primitive and I have no idea why I cannot bind certain keys. Another bad thing is that the game might suffer from what Prey suffers which is that you can never truly die. This I'm not sure on but it might be the case.

setup options in the demo were obviously limited. saving and loading were disabled, etc. don't think that'll apply to the final game.

[Stark]

The usual whining from people expecting non-linear, unscripted gameplay is no surprise.

You mean, that stuff the development team has been hyping for nearly a year? Pfft, who expected any of that stuff that's listed on the back of the box as 'features'?

I see where you're coming from (from a cynical, of-course-it-was-never-going-to-work perspective) but the demo is basically a totally standard shooter. I played it at night in a windy house and all, and it was boring. Shoot that guy! Now shoot that guy! Listen to the Irish guy tell you about stuff you can't do in the demo!

If the game is a Halflife-esque corridor stroll, I'll be taking my preorder back. If it's System Shock with Art Deco and a bad demo, it'll be fun.

[Vympel]

By any reasonable standard, System Shock and its sequel were both very scripted. BioShock was marketed as a shooter, nothing more.

[Hotfoot]

By any reasonable standard, System Shock and its sequel were both very scripted. BioShock was marketed as a shooter, nothing more.

That may be, but SS2 particularly had multiple ways to achieve most goals and let you specialize your character's development in several ways. It also gave you at least basic reasons for going from point A to point B. I felt that there was a REASON for me to run from the medical center where I started out to the next section and beyond. Part of it was because I needed to find out what the fuck happened, protect the ship and save people, and the other was because OH SHIT DECOMPRESSION! Sure, it never happened, even if you waited an hour, but that it was mentioned as a motivation in game was enough to get you into the game and go "Okay, cool, I need to get out of here because otherwise I'll taste hard space."

In Bioshock, you have no real motivation to go into the lighthouse. The sea is calm. The only danger is from the sinking plane and the fuel fire. You're no safer inside than on the steps, so there's no real reason to go inside. If there was a storm raging and you had to work even a little to get to the lighthouse, only to be knocked around a little by crashing waves, that would have been enough motivation to go inside. Make the lighthouse seem somewhat unstable and you've got more than enough reason to get into the Bathysphere. Even better if you've got Atlas on the radio going "Hello? Is anybody up there? If you can hear me, that lighthouse is going to get torn apart any minute! Get into the Bathysphere now!"

Scripted? Sure, but at least it's a token motivation to do SOMETHING.

[Resinence]

By any reasonable standard, System Shock and its sequel were both very scripted. BioShock was marketed as a shooter, nothing more.

Um, what?

BioShock is a revolution in the shooter genre that will forever change the expectations for the FPS. Going beyond "run and gun corridors," "monster-closet AIs" and static worlds, BioShock creates a living, unique and unpredictable FPS experience. BioShock is the Shooter 2.0.

Marketed as just a shooter, I think not.

[Vympel]

Um, what?

BioShock is a revolution in the shooter genre that will forever change the expectations for the FPS. Going beyond "run and gun corridors," "monster-closet AIs" and static worlds, BioShock creates a living, unique and unpredictable FPS experience. BioShock is the Shooter 2.0.

Marketed as just a shooter, I think not.

Shooter 2.0 is still a shooter. Do you have any reason to believe that any of those things they mock in the above is going to be a big feature of the game? They never said this game was going to be some non-scripted free-form free-for-all, ever.

[Vympel]

Just played the PC demo - I thought it was fucking awesome. I can't wait to try out all the Plasmids.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

I've played through the demo about 6 times now, on 360 and PC.

The demo is definitely very linear but that's because it's the games bloody tutorial. And frankly it's one of the best tutorials I've played and promises great things for later in the game (at the end they even included a video of said things being done). Despite the whining it does let you play with some of the novel features such like using plasmids to corral enemies into water to electrocute them and hacking security devices to aide you.

I'm sure they could have chopped a section out from further along the plot line and made it into a demo which focused more on the open areas and novel gameplay ideas but that would have been a foolish decision. Sandboxes with no explanation make excellent demos for people already planning on buying the game but lame demos for enticing people who don't know much about the game.

[Stark]

Shooter 2.0 is still a shooter. Do you have any reason to believe that any of those things they mock in the above is going to be a big feature of the game? They never said this game was going to be some non-scripted free-form free-for-all, ever.

What? They've been selling Bioshock as a literal revolution in shooters (indeed, 'shooter 2.0' ffs) with unscripted, emergent gameplay and AI ecologies. Turning around and saying 'it's just a shooter' is ridiculous, no matter how unlikely or overambitious their featureset or overexcited marketing was. Since the demo is 100% linear, boring bullshit (lol we spawned some badguyz on you shoot them), I have no reason NOT to believe the whole game is going to be like that. Except their marketing, of course, and the trailer with the typical 'cool shit you'll never bother doing in the game because it's not worth it' features common to failed 'revolutionary' shooters.

While this was all massively unrealistic (and a repeat of STALKER), calling people expecting flexibility and non-scripted AI 'whiners' as Tuxedo does is absurd. I'm reserving judgement until I play the full game, but the only play information available is the demo, which doesn't match the features they've been touting at all.

This whole situation reminds me of the 'awesome physics' they sold Halflife 2 with. You know, those 100% scripted events? Most people can look back and see that it was a game sold on bullshit. Oh wait, there were those two times you could shoot that one brick!

At least there's no ridiculous weapon wear that was so bad they added the option to remove it in a patch, like SS2.

[Vympel]

What was the SS2 weapon?

For the record, I didn't pay any attention to the BioShock marketing. I knew it was a follow on to Sshock, it clearly is, so I'm buying it sight unseen. Simple.

That the demo rocks sealed the deal for me.

[Bounty]

What was the SS2 weapon?

I think he's referring to SS2's "feature" where your weapons break after firing them a few times.

[wautd]

I've played through the demo about 6 times now, on 360 and PC.

Out of intrest, which one did you prefer and why? I have to try it out on my PC first but I'm afraid it won't run as smooth as on my Xbox. Bit silly to upgrade for a single game tough

[Laughing Mechanicus]

I've played through the demo about 6 times now, on 360 and PC.

Out of intrest, which one did you prefer and why? I have to try it out on my PC first but I'm afraid it won't run as smooth as on my Xbox. Bit silly to upgrade for a single game tough

I preferred the PC version, aiming was easier and I much preferred the way you switched between weapons and plasmids. To elucidate, in the PC version you press the right mouse button to switch between either plasmids or weapons, then you use the mouse wheel to scroll through the various options available in that group. It remembers your last selection in either group and you can also bind a single key press to equip then immediately fire guns/plasmids which I imagine will be useful if you get surprised.

Additionally the AI characters in the PC version are tougher (comparing medium diffculty on the 360 to the same on PC) and possibly a little bit faster (not so sure about that though). One very awesome thing I noticed on the PC is the melee attack enemies are actually really smart. They will only charge straight at you if you are close to them, if you are at a distance they will hide behind the nearest corner then wait for you to come closer before bursting out at you just as you reach their hiding spot; indeed if you try to out-flank them to spot them in their hiding spot you can actually see them retreating further to keep out of your line of sight. Quite likely they do the same on the 360 and I just didn't notice though.

Try it on both and get it on the one you prefer. The more accurate aiming of the PC version is going to mean very little if your frame rates chugging along badly and you have to turn the graphics down to medium to get it to work (the step down from high to medium graphics on the PC is a big drop in quality). I'll take some screenshots now to compare the two.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

The freeform expectations were based on reading into dev statements. When they said "living breathing, world" they were talking about immersion in the cool atmosphere. "Unscripted, emergent gameplay" means that Big Daddies and Little Sisters go around doing their thing and interact with other denizens they come across. The "shooter 2.0" stuff is just standard marketing hype, doesn't really mean anything. There's nothing in any of those statements to suggest an Oblivion-esque freeform romp. And I used the term whining because it's an exact repeat of what people said after STALKER came out. Was it a freeform, non-linear game with deep dialogue and dynamic interaction? No. Was it an awesome game? Hell yes. So forgive me if I'm a little irritated when people slam another great game based on what it's not instead of what it is.

[Laughing Mechanicus]

Screenshots to show the difference between medium and high graphics settings, some might consider them minor spoilers so I won't inline them.

High
Medium

High
Medium

High
Medium

One thing that irks me about the graphics on both versions - no anti-aliasing. Apparently if you own a DX10 card you can force it via the control panel, but my 7900 doesn't let me.