BL discontinues both warhammer RPGs

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-01-28 08:01pm

I wonder how much contribution GW had to this decision. FUCK.

Lawl, GW needs to work out their management system.

Well, the outrage at their forums might do something.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2008-01-28 08:01pm

I'm not a Pen and Paper RPG fanboy so I don't really know what this is about, but I'm genuinely intrigued by this business model you guys are talking about. So Games Workshop basically throws a bunch of ideas out, identifies the one that succeeds best, and then eliminates all the others as losing propositions even if they're profitable and have a cult following that could be grown into a brand? Also, in light of the hotly anticipated WFRP-based MMO that is coming out second quarter this year, how does killing all further production WFRP products make any kind of sense? You've got the potential of a large, new customer base for your print materials appearing in just a few months, after all.

Could somebody explain the GW problem to me in more detail?

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-01-28 08:05pm

I honestly think that three quarters doesn't know what the other one is doing.

That would explain some things.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2008-01-28 08:41pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote: Could somebody explain the GW problem to me in more detail?

Some years ago, much of the Games Workshop upper management was replaced by that of Boots the Chemist (literally, one got in at executive levels and hired most of the rest). They understand selling product in high street shop, and they've about grasped that a big part of the draw is the hobbyist crowd who like to build mod and paint, they don't understand interacting with their fanbase in a meaningful or positive fashion. So, anything that doesn't shift lead and paints in volume gets canned without leaving it on the shelves long enough to make an impression, and staff in the departments that supported those games get shuffled into other areas, and fan projects (like a fan movie, that was pretty much finished, and would have been massive free publicity) get shitcanned before they get off the ground. And whilst that's going on, the main games don't get PDF rules, they don't do living rulebooks, no previews of new editions, none of the other things that pretty much every other miniatures game company manages to do.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2008-01-28 08:46pm

No, that's really about it, Pablo.

GW is honestly convinced that, in this day in age of online gaming, internet retailers, message boards, wikipedia articles, PDF file sharing, collectible card games, and prevalent competition from other tabletop games, people are willing and eager to drive half an hour out of their way to a physical game retail outlet just to learn about hobby they might want to invest in from some weaselly salesman wrangling 10 year olds and tournament buffs together for a demonstration game.

Despite GW's long possession of a good manufacturing base, art & development team, printed books and magazines, and a dominant face on the tabletop market, they still think the proper course of action is to fall back to their gaming/advertising stores and whittle their customer base to an elite eager few.

I repeatedly beg the question why having a larger customer base wouldn't be a good idea. So many people already rely on the internet and outside merchandise (Dawn of War) for information on their game. Why not provide product education on that broader range and rely chiefly on independent retailers to sell merchandise and host games? You don't see people going to Wizards of the Coast stores to figure out how Dungeons & Dragons is played.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2008-01-28 09:07pm

From a certain perspective their attitude makes sense. Why risk investment on new sectors of the business like pen and paper RPGs in competition with existing gaming systems, if you already have hot properties with a dedicated fan base willing to drop hundreds or thousands of dollars each on lead miniatures and decoration supplies?

What it doesn't explain is why they would enter new sectors of the business, then bail out of them just as they've begun to create a fan-base. It puts all the investment put into expanding that franchise to waste. As I understand it, Games Workshop is in a commanding position vis-a-vis tabletop stuff with it's Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 properties. Why not use that as a basis to expand into proven markets like PnP RPGs, just as they're expanding into computer games?

Nor do I get why they would be hostile to fans getting tattoos. Like, actual tattoo artists who create original body art can get pretty testy about copyright, but the GW position is like if Disney sued people for getting tattoos of Mickey Mouse (which they don't

). You're not talking about somebody reproducing your art work for his own profit, there.

Zablorg · Post by **Zablorg** » 2008-01-28 09:16pm

I will say this about GW; they make very nice minatures which I find very fun and very time consuming to paint. Everything else, however, is covered in semen. Which is a shame really, as it has a fair amount of potential.

Pollux · Post by **Pollux** » 2008-01-28 09:26pm

Fuck... fuck... fuck...

WFRP is what I'm getting my little bro into role-playing with right now.

I don't think he'll take this news that well.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-01-31 12:25pm

Well, this whole situation blows. For those who got the books, where did you get them? Will there even be any for others (such as myself) to purchase? Hopefully I'll be able to salvage something from this situation.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2008-01-31 12:38pm

I got mine as the last and only copy available in the dealer's room at a convention. It plus the DM Screen, and character folio set me back $80, which is a pittance to what this thing will net on ebay in the coming months before the next printing.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2008-01-31 12:59pm

I got my book at my local gamingstore, which still has a few copies but not nearly as many as they had last week (which was a lot). There's a lot of WFRP out there (its been a successful game for years) so it is easy to get.

The decision was probably made months ago (Dark Heresy was delayed, it was originally intended to be realeased in 2007) and the announcement merely delayed until after the first run of game books sold so as not to torpedo sales.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2008-01-31 01:10pm

I'm convinced they fucked off the paper and pen RPG so they could redirect funds to the computer game 40k RPG.

Dawn of War is their sort of franchise as well, you can literally beat it to death with new add-ons until the end product is utterly different. (not that I don't enjoy DoW...) It wouldn't shock me that they've decided to move forward with digital media for RPGs without bothering with their pnp base.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2008-01-31 05:44pm

Raj Ahten wrote:Well, this whole situation blows. For those who got the books, where did you get them? Will there even be any for others (such as myself) to purchase? Hopefully I'll be able to salvage something from this situation.

I ordered mine from Barnes & Noble after Amazon delayed my order until fucking April. I got a slight delay from B&N, but only by about a week so I should have the core book next week sometime, and the GM kit after that.

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-01-31 07:26pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:I ordered mine from Barnes & Noble after Amazon delayed my order until fucking April. I got a slight delay from B&N, but only by about a week so I should have the core book next week sometime, and the GM kit after that.

Likewise. I canceled with Amazon and ordered from B&N a little before midnight last night; it shipped this evening, and I'm expecting it by Tuesday. I'd have been waiting for another two weeks with Amazon - if they even had any to sell me.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-02-01 12:19am

Amusingly enough, just today I got the confirmation email that my copy had shipped from Amazon, but then again I used .ca instead of .com so its probable that they have a different supply source.

Anyone here interested in an online game when it looks like enough people have access to the rules?

Feil · Post by **Feil** » 2008-02-01 12:28am

Academia Nut wrote:Anyone here interested in an online game when it looks like enough people have access to the rules?

Most definitely.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2008-02-01 12:47am

Academia Nut wrote:Anyone here interested in an online game when it looks like enough people have access to the rules?

Hell yeah. I normally avoid forum RPGs because I suck at them, but I can't say no to Dark Heresy. Plus it looks like I'll be GMing in RL as usual, so I'd like to be a player once in awhile.

Academia Nut · Post by **Academia Nut** » 2008-02-01 12:56am

Ha! I know what you mean. Despite the fact that I would really like to play some of the characters I've dreamed up over the years for various systems, everybody I know is too much of a newbie, and lazy, to actually be capable of running a game.

Also, since the last WH40k forum roleplay we had on here was kicked off by a discussion of surfing, I hope this will serve as a good luck charm.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2008-02-01 06:59am

I'm usually terrible with this sort of thing, but I'd be all over a game of Dark Heresy like a Ratling on curried grox.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2008-02-01 07:30am

I'd honestly be surprised if they don't let someone like Green Ronin pick it up. That'd be like saying no to free money on the IP.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2008-02-01 02:30pm

Fucking hell there was some cock-up with the distributor not putting in the order from the shop I ordered the thing from now I have to wait to see when they'll get more and when they'll ship.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2008-02-01 02:59pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:
Academia Nut wrote:Anyone here interested in an online game when it looks like enough people have access to the rules?
Hell yeah. I normally avoid forum RPGs because I suck at them, but I can't say no to Dark Heresy. Plus it looks like I'll be GMing in RL as usual, so I'd like to be a player once in awhile.

I was spared that fate by Dana, my friend who got the Collector's Edition.

I'd be interested in some form of online play, either here or at Librium Arcana.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2008-02-01 04:22pm

After the peaked sales of 2004, Games Workshop's revenue stream continued to declined.

As you can see their profits dwindled drastically which is most likely is what is making them cut corners

The year 2006-07 report that contains that graph can be found here

This was release back in July 30th, so the decision to axe Dark Heresy probably occurred way back then and only announced it now to sell any supplies they had already manufactured.

Raj Ahten · Post by **Raj Ahten** » 2008-02-01 06:01pm

Well, online play sounds awesome, as it may be as close as I ever get to it. My local store didn't have a copy, but I still got hope that it may be somewhere in the county. Thanks to everyone who answered my questions.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2008-02-01 08:01pm

Soontir C'boath wrote:After the peaked sales of 2004, Games Workshop's revenue stream continued to declined.
*snip*

As you can see their profits dwindled drastically which is most likely is what is making them cut corners

Holy schnikies! From 20 million pounds profit to almost nil, with the drop in sales being only 40 million pounds? Their fixed costs must be obscene - which does make sense, since the variable costs of printing and producing minis isn't that high. The difference between 03 and 05 is telling, though - revenues were higher in 05, but the profit plummeted. They screwed up somewhere that led to really high expenses.