What's the best Ace Combat game for PS2?

[Steve]

The problem with AC5 was Chopper, in fact, it was Chopper starting with the invasion of Yuktobania. They flanderized him in the space of a few missions, and the storyline suffered from it, I'm cool with every other character, hell I'm cool with Chopper in most missions.

Incidentally, another retarded moment was him ditching in the Stadium because he didn't want his fighter to crash on anybody. First problem: there must have been at least a dozen different blocks on fire by then from the battle, it hardly made a difference. Second problem: there was a wide river.

They wanted to give Chopper a heroic sacrifice or such and decided the best way to do it was to have him refuse to eject until it was too late. It would've been so much better if Kei and Thunderhead called for him to RTB while he could and Chopper refuses because he doesn't want to abandon everyone in the middle of an intense dogfight, thus dooming himself.

The invasion of Yuktobania level is such a cringe-inducing moment for me on more than one level. Chopper whining about how evil the President was to order the invasion (of course, at this time nobody knows the President is cooling his heels in a Belkan prison as a result of the militarist silent coup d'etat in Osea) and getting smacked down a bit by Kei of all people, the bitching ground troop comm chatter, and the pissant scale of the battle compared to AC4's Operation: Bunker Shot, which was a damned fun level to play in AC4.

But as annoying as Chopper was, and as disappointed as I was to see Swordsman not really come into focus as part of your flight, I really really really fucking hate that fat fuck Perrault.

[Adrian Laguna]

I noticed something interesting about the higher difficulties in AC4 and AC5. In the first when you play on Expert two missile hits will kill you no matter what plane you fly, which puts you in the same boat as the AI aircraft, except that you have special ammunition and they don't. On Ace one missile hit will always down you, which is technically a handicap but still sort of fair because I'm faster than they are.

In the later game, however, on Expert difficulty some of the tougher planes can, in fact, survive two hits, and on Ace the vast majority can survive a single hit, but none a second. I think it's because some AI fighters can also survive two hits (A-10, TND), and because the enemy can now use specials. So Expert difficulty is still the "fair" setting, enemy missiles will damage you as much as yours of the same type damage them. Then on Ace difficulty you are given a handicap, but not as much a one as on AC4, again because the AI fighters can use special AAMs. I'm still faster than they are.

True. The closest AC5 comes to that is the penultimate mission; there's a moderately hairy dogfight going on above the tunnel entrance, but you spend most of your time taking out AA emplacements.

It would have been cool if you could get your wingmates to kill the AAA while you fly top cover; alas our command options were not that detailed. A funny thing about Aces is that usually by the end of it every single fighter but the Razgriz has been shot down, but you can still hear them over the radio.

Unfortunately you can win that mission with two volleys of XLAAs, without the enemy even breaking formation. Sucky AI, they should have threat alert detectors. But then you can kill all the enemies in Megalith pretty quickly and easily if you take QAAMs. As long as you don't do that they're both epic missions.

Yellow 13's flight can also be utterly massacred in a minute or two with QAAMs. For the sake of my own enjoyment, I refuse to use special missiles in that battle, with the exception of my opening salvo, where I sometimes indulge in a quad XLAA/XMAA barrage, which half the time hits nothing nothing but air.

They wanted to give Chopper a heroic sacrifice or such and decided the best way to do it was to have him refuse to eject until it was too late. It would've been so much better if Kei and Thunderhead called for him to RTB while he could and Chopper refuses because he doesn't want to abandon everyone in the middle of an intense dogfight, thus dooming himself.

That would have been a great mirror to what happened to Yellow 4 in AC4, except this time you get to be Yellow 13, and instead of pulling back when your wingmate in the damaged plane gets shot down, you turn into Angry!Razgriz.

The invasion of Yuktobania level is such a cringe-inducing moment for me on more than one level. Chopper whining about how evil the President was to order the invasion (of course, at this time nobody knows the President is cooling his heels in a Belkan prison as a result of the militarist silent coup d'etat in Osea) and getting smacked down a bit by Kei of all people, the bitching ground troop comm chatter, and the pissant scale of the battle compared to AC4's Operation: Bunker Shot, which was a damned fun level to play in AC4.

Judging by the context you mean "bitching" in a non-flattering matter. Why? I thought the troop chatter was what saved that mission, since Chopper STFU a couple of minutes in, and when you're focused on supporting those specific ground troops its easy to imagine there are other landings elsewhere. I thought the part with the utterly incompetent battalion commander was most amusing.

But as annoying as Chopper was, and as disappointed as I was to see Swordsman not really come into focus as part of your flight, I really really really fucking hate that fat fuck Perrault.

I actually respected Perrault after Front Line, because of his willingness to participate in the defence of Sand Island instead of sitting in his fat ass doing nothing, but that changed real quick as the story developed. Anyway, it is obvious were supposed to hate him, the problem is that they set-up a character to be hated and neglected to also write in an appropriate comeuppance, that would have been so satisfying. It's unfair that Hamilton, who is not as hateful, got his but Perrault did not.

[Steve]

The bit with the incompetent Colonel made me cackle, but maybe my memory of that chatter isn't as good as I thought.

You're right that Perrault seemed courageous in "Front Line" before his character went down "To Be Hated By Player" Lane and yet we didn't see him eating his words. It's mostly implied, I guess, since I imagine that after everything was over President Harding (was that his name?) went to the Osean military with a bigass cleaver and I'm sure Perrault was caught by it, either forced into retirement or shuffled off somewhere given his role in trying to thwart the heroic Wardogs/Razgriz.

P.S. The ground troop chatter in the attack on the fortress - what was it called again? Crecak? Something like that - was entertaining, though. Especially the "I thought there were four of them?" "Only good little boys see the fourth" exchange since you're missing Chopper, obviously.

[Adrian Laguna]

All this talk about Ace Combat had be deciding to give Unsung War another whirl. I am mildly annoyed by the F-5 you are forced to fly in the first four missions. Not because the Tiger is bad aircraft, it's not, but because all of those missions are primarily air battles and yet every single time you and your wingmen are carrying bombs. It's rather unrealistic, and looks to me like a poorly executed attempt to force the player to not use special AAMs when he's a newb. It would have been preferable to script the mission so the stock F-5 you're using don't have any specials at all. It couldn't be that hard, the Hawk comes in armed and unarmed flavours, after all.

The ground troop chatter in the attack on the fortress - what was it called again? Crecak? Something like that - was entertaining, though. Especially the "I thought there were four of them?" "Only good little boys see the fourth" exchange since you're missing Chopper, obviously.

Cruik Fortress, which incidentally may have been built on an Ulysses asteroid crater. Yeah, that had fun banter. I liked the exchanges between the commanders of the forces on both sides.

One of the things I hate about AC5 (and Zero) is the fact that you sometimes get teleported around the map when scripted events happen. It kills suspension of disbelief, for me. Fortunately AC4 and AC6 don't have that.

That was really only bothersome in First Flight, elsewhere I didn't mind it at all. Also, AC4 does do it on a couple of occasions, though more subtly. Right before you down Yellow 4 is the most obvious example.

[Vendetta]

You're right that Perrault seemed courageous in "Front Line" before his character went down "To Be Hated By Player" Lane and yet we didn't see him eating his words. It's mostly implied, I guess, since I imagine that after everything was over President Harding (was that his name?) went to the Osean military with a bigass cleaver and I'm sure Perrault was caught by it, either forced into retirement or shuffled off somewhere given his role in trying to thwart the heroic Wardogs/Razgriz.

Failed his next physical for being a quivering mound of lard and got invalided out.

[Shroom Man 777]

You know, the observations are rather right. Five and Zero and Six have all these melodramatic stories on characters and ideologies and worlds without boundaries and ace squads with interesting backstories and womens and childrens and golden kings (ick!) and crap, but 04 was awesome in its storyline simplicity. It was about a real war and it FELT like a real war. Mobius 1 was an awesome soldier and was part of an awesome war that affected the lives of Storyteller Boy and Yellow 13. It was simple, it wasn't high-handed or convoluted or melodramatic or forced (like Six) and it was very goddamn effective. Good game, great story.


God I love Ace Combat. Mobius 1 is awesome since it's through actions, not inflation, that his reputation is built. And his reputation's not really overblown, and we do feel like we're fighting a real war. In 5, we have our guys being Big Damn Heroes leading the Scrappy Rebels, and in Zero it's kind of weird and all, and in Six... eh.

Oh noes! The Four Winged Demon Lords of Razgriz! MATILDAAAAA!

[Vendetta]

What doesn't help the later Ace Combat games is the duff scripts. They're quite literally translated from Japanese, which leaves them with completely unnatural and stiff dialogue. (Zero was the worst for that, whoever wrote the dialogue in that needs shooting. From a cannon. Into the sea.)

[Starglider]

You know, the observations are rather right. Five and Zero and Six have all these melodramatic stories on characters and ideologies and worlds without boundaries and ace squads with interesting backstories and womens and childrens and golden kings (ick!) and crap, but 04 was awesome in its storyline simplicity. It was about a real war and it FELT like a real war. Mobius 1 was an awesome soldier and was part of an awesome war that affected the lives of Storyteller Boy and Yellow 13. It was simple, it wasn't high-handed or convoluted or melodramatic or forced (like Six) and it was very goddamn effective. Good game, great story.

You should like X then. I haven't played it (don't have a PSP) but a friend of mine has it and apparently the storyline is minimalist.

[Vendetta]

ACX's story is recounted much like AC4's (but by the narrator of 5).

It's also bastarding hard at times, especially some of the S ranks (fucking helicopter escort mission, fucking invisible superplane).

[Darksider]

One thing I have to say about AC: 04 is that it gave me a much better sense of things getting better for the good guys, and the bad guys getting their due than any of the subsequent ones.

I pretty much loved every mission after the initial invasion of USEA when the briefing music switches from "operation" to the much more upbeat "second strike". It was an awesome subtle touch that really drove home that the tide of the war had turned back in ISAF's favor. also, the scene at the end of mission five when the ISAF pilots fly by triumphantly singing the Usean national anthem after obliterating the Ageir fleet was fucking awesome.

No bitching about the immoralities of war, no lamenting that there must be good people on both sides, just soldiers happy about kicking the bad guys asses. I loved that.

[Starglider]

I pretty much loved every mission after the initial invasion of USEA when the briefing music switches from "operation" to the much more upbeat "second strike". It was an awesome subtle touch that really drove home that the tide of the war had turned back in ISAF's favor.

That did work well. The briefing music you get in AC5 once you're operating from the Kestrel is even better, but yeah the 'trying to take out evil conspiracy' wasn't quite as epic as winning a huge land war. Though the scene at the start of 'Aces' where lots of different fighter squadrons form up behind you is pretty cool (and the music for the first half of that mission is right up there with Bunker Shot for 'let's kick ass and take names').

also, the scene at the end of mission five when the ISAF pilots fly by triumphantly singing the Usean national anthem after obliterating the Ageir fleet was fucking awesome.

True! Unfortunately the song they occasionally sang in AC5 wasn't as good.

[Vendetta]

True! Unfortunately the song they occasionally sang in AC5 wasn't as good.

It's alright when sung properly on the soundtrack.

When sung by Chopper, not so much.

[Drooling Iguana]

Sorry for the thread necro but I picked up AC5 a little while ago, finished it today, and I must say it's about a billion times better than AC04 in every conceivable respect. I'm still recovering from the adrenaline high of finishing the last couple of missions so I can't write a coherent review right at the moment, but while AC04 was well worth the $15 I paid for it and a decent way of getting my flight sim fix in console form, AC5 has shot up onto my list of best games of all time.

[Edward Yee]

No bitching about the immoralities of war, no lamenting that there must be good people on both sides

Blame Japan? It reminds me so much of anime...

I will add this: At least Pixy and PJ are pretty good when it comes to, you know, actually killing targets, particularly on the ground. (Pixy at least; unfortunately you only get PJ in missions 13-17, in which things are for obvious reasons more risky. I have seen PJ down a named ace in 14S though.) Didn't get that impression with Edge, Chopper, and Archer, which made my paying for their planes feel wasted...

P.S. I don't consider this so much a necro in light of the AC04 strategy thread. Also, I didn't buy Perrault's *ahem* acting tough. As for Perrault? The fanfic "The Ultimate Ace" had command already figure out that he's got a problem, that's why he's in charge of a trainee base in the first place.

[Edward Yee]

This all leads up to the last mission and the attack on Megalith to thwart the Erusean diehards, where your wingmates call in as "Moebius #" and the Eruseans' remaining corps of elite pilots expressing amazement when one asks to find "the ribbon fighter" and the stunned answer of "They're all ribbons!" comes through.

To this day I'm still into this story; for me it's a toss-up between Mobius One and the Demon Lord of the Round Table for which of them would be considered top dog in the Ace Combat world.

Not to mention the utter insanity and incompetence of the belligerents, such as the infamous first split missions in which you have to "prove" your pilots' innocent of bombing civilian targets by performing well in-mission. Apparently the mighty Osean military has never heard of black box recorders.

This last bit gets worse in the Japanese version, as the official who's informing you of the attacks on Oured (and thus your need to take to the air) oozes dickhead, sneak... and even pervert. In contrast, though, it actually makes Perrault sound less like a bastard.

By the way, funny moment: Chopper calls Yuktobanian ambushers cowards for attacking a damaged C-5 Galaxy in "Handful of Hope" only to go around and do the same thing himself (and go after C-130s while he's at it) when I tell him to in "Blind Spot."

This brings us to Zero. Solo Pixie was an idiot, the Belkan War was horribly short considering its supposed social and geopolitical results, and the entire "World Without Borders" terrorist group stuff was badly-conceived and handled. I found it especially insane that the Sapinese ace could commit treason like that and, a decade later, be out on the street. Seriously, they were all numbskulls who basically fell hook, line, and sinker for what was obviously a Belkan short-term plot to undo their defeat.

Solo Wing Pixy the idiot... what do you think I yell at him in "Zero"? Even I noticed the "WTF" of A World With No Borders' mission statement (at least according to the one guy in "Valley of Kings" when you're flying through the tunnel), and while Pixy's disgruntlement with Ustio makes a bit more sense in the Soldier and Knight paths (particularly the latter due to your aversion towards attacking the neutralized)... not so much on Mercenary. At least PJ at the end of 17M (Mercenary version of Valley of Kings/Avalon) got it right: "We're gonna be rich!"