Window 7 Beta Released

[Jaepheth]

Well, I've had a tough time getting Windows 7 running. Mostly seems to be my hardware's fault though.

I updated my motherboard BIOS which locked up windows and the windows installer.

My network card is fairly old (Microsoft's MN-730) it doesn't have 64bit drivers, so I installed the 32bit Windows 7. The XP drivers install and then the OS starts running ridiculously slow, as well as seeming to cease using the second processor core all together.

Other than that it seems pretty nice. I like it better than Vista already.

[Braedley]

Wait, so you had vista on that machine? Why don't you try installing the Vista drivers (assuming there are some)? The other option is to just go without internet on Windows 7, seeing as how it's just a beta.

[Jaepheth]

No, I've never owned Vista. But I encounter it frequently at work.

I discovered though, that the Broadcom 802.11g drivers work for the wireless adapter just fine.

[Vertigo1]

Given that this is only a beta, I'm actually impressed about how stable it is. Its everything Vista should have been, and more. (and this is from someone that absolutely hates Vista with a passion) However, I don't like the re-designed GUI. The control panel interface (the REAL one, not the "what do you want to do?" interface) is unintuitive as hell. The start menu is still ugly as sin, and they actually made an effort to HIDE the run prompt. (you have to go through the REAL control panel into the taskbar/start menu options to turn it on) By default, volume control is disabled. (again, you have to use the REAL control panel to adjust your volume settings, after you dug through a couple tabs) They also removed the option to enable the classic start menu that we all know and love. (and no, switching to the classic desktop theme does NOT bring it back)

However, I do like the desktop themes that come with it. (including the 30 min slideshow) The memory management could use a little work, but I suspect some tweaking will cut down on the ram usage a bit. (going from ~300MB usage in XP to a little over 1GB in 7) I also like the fact that the boot load time has been greatly reduced. (half the load time of XP) Best of all, UAC isn't an annoying little cunt anymore, although its still just as annoying to turn off.

So far I give it a 2.5 / 5. This will definitely change once a working emulation driver for Daemon Tools is released so I can test all my games on it.

[Commander 598]

Given that this is only a beta, I'm actually impressed about how stable it is. Its everything Vista should have been, and more. (and this is from someone that absolutely hates Vista with a passion) However, I don't like the re-designed GUI. The control panel interface (the REAL one, not the "what do you want to do?" interface) is unintuitive as hell. The start menu is still ugly as sin, and they actually made an effort to HIDE the run prompt. (you have to go through the REAL control panel into the taskbar/start menu options to turn it on) By default, volume control is disabled. (again, you have to use the REAL control panel to adjust your volume settings, after you dug through a couple tabs) They also removed the option to enable the classic start menu that we all know and love. (and no, switching to the classic desktop theme does NOT bring it back)

It's fairly obvious that they want you to use the Start Search, which is more intuitive than everything else unless you are physically incapable of typing. Also, Start Search will give you "Run" in like ~0.5 seconds depending on how quickly you can type three letters.

[phongn]

Given that this is only a beta, I'm actually impressed about how stable it is. Its everything Vista should have been, and more. (and this is from someone that absolutely hates Vista with a passion) However, I don't like the re-designed GUI. The control panel interface (the REAL one, not the "what do you want to do?" interface) is unintuitive as hell.

Is it unintuitive, or is it just too different from the classic one that you're used to? They've also fixed the networking control panel, IIRC.

The start menu is still ugly as sin, and they actually made an effort to HIDE the run prompt. (you have to go through the REAL control panel into the taskbar/start menu options to turn it on) By default, volume control is disabled. (again, you have to use the REAL control panel to adjust your volume settings, after you dug through a couple tabs) They also removed the option to enable the classic start menu that we all know and love. (and no, switching to the classic desktop theme does NOT bring it back)

The new start menu is superior in pretty much every way! And if you actually DO use the run menu, Win-R brings it up anyways. Also, the volume controls appear by default in my VM.

The memory management could use a little work, but I suspect some tweaking will cut down on the ram usage a bit. (going from ~300MB usage in XP to a little over 1GB in 7) I also like the fact that the boot load time has been greatly reduced. (half the load time of XP) Best of all, UAC isn't an annoying little cunt anymore, although its still just as annoying to turn off.

If you're using Task Manager to compare memory use between XP and Vista/7, don't. The two use completely different reporting methods. That said, yes, Windows 7 does use quite a bit more memory than XP will, especially if Aero Glass is turned on (though less than Vista).

[Resinence]

Just adding quickly, if anyone does plan to test how their games run, you can use http://www.slysoft.com/en/virtual-clonedrive.html to mount your legal ISO backups of games , it's the only virtual drive I've found that works so far on win7 x64.

[Commander 598]

Just adding quickly, if anyone does plan to test how their games run, you can use http://www.slysoft.com/en/virtual-clonedrive.html to mount your legal ISO backups of games , it's the only virtual drive I've found that works so far on win7 x64.

...or x86. All the others seem to have to install STPD drivers or something and require a restart to continue install but upon restart the install process just starts over from the beginning.

[Braedley]

So I just noticed something today. Windows 7 deteced my onboard audio properly, and supplied some drivers, but it split my 5.1 audio for my headset (I wouldn't recommend what I have over other full cuff headsets, but that's neither here nor there) from my 2.1 desktop speakers, and only one could be set as default at a time. This meant that recently installed winamp could use only one or the other, which in my case is not ideal. The fix was fairly easy: pop my mobo cd in, and install those drivers. I couldn't install Realtek's setup utility though, because the disk refused to allow me to open the autorun program because win7 isn't a recognized OS. I s'pose I could just go digging through the disk looking for Vista 64 installer, but couldn't be bothered, as windows is doing a fairly good job of managing it.

[Commander 598]

My SB drivers wouldn't install because it wasn't XP or Vista. I used compatability mode on the installer and it worked fine.

[Commander 598]

Oh what the hell IE8?! Making me double post in a thread I was already past.

[Vertigo1]

Given that this is only a beta, I'm actually impressed about how stable it is. Its everything Vista should have been, and more. (and this is from someone that absolutely hates Vista with a passion) However, I don't like the re-designed GUI. The control panel interface (the REAL one, not the "what do you want to do?" interface) is unintuitive as hell.

Is it unintuitive, or is it just too different from the classic one that you're used to? They've also fixed the networking control panel, IIRC.

A bit of both actually. Keep in mind that I'm reviewing it from a newbie's prospective. (which I deal with people of this nature on a daily basis)

The start menu is still ugly as sin, and they actually made an effort to HIDE the run prompt. (you have to go through the REAL control panel into the taskbar/start menu options to turn it on) By default, volume control is disabled. (again, you have to use the REAL control panel to adjust your volume settings, after you dug through a couple tabs) They also removed the option to enable the classic start menu that we all know and love. (and no, switching to the classic desktop theme does NOT bring it back)

The new start menu is superior in pretty much every way! And if you actually DO use the run menu, Win-R brings it up anyways. Also, the volume controls appear by default in my VM.

If you mean smaller, and harder to read (again, I'm coming at this from a newbie's POV), then yes its better in every way. Secondly, I am fully aware of the Win-R shortcut. Lastly, I do retract my comment about volume control. It took two reboots after installing the drivers for my onboard audio (which there should have been drivers for included on the iso given that its atleast four years old, but that's another topic entirely..), but it does show up now.

Also, to answer your post Commander 598, there are certain programs that DO NOT show up in the run search. (like say regsvr32, which people such as myself can use to re-register windows components that were disabled by malware, or to generally just repair a broken install of IE for starters.)

The memory management could use a little work, but I suspect some tweaking will cut down on the ram usage a bit. (going from ~300MB usage in XP to a little over 1GB in 7) I also like the fact that the boot load time has been greatly reduced. (half the load time of XP) Best of all, UAC isn't an annoying little cunt anymore, although its still just as annoying to turn off.

If you're using Task Manager to compare memory use between XP and Vista/7, don't. The two use completely different reporting methods. That said, yes, Windows 7 does use quite a bit more memory than XP will, especially if Aero Glass is turned on (though less than Vista).

Looking at it again, I do see what you're talking about.

So I just noticed something today. Windows 7 deteced my onboard audio properly, and supplied some drivers, but it split my 5.1 audio for my headset (I wouldn't recommend what I have over other full cuff headsets, but that's neither here nor there) from my 2.1 desktop speakers, and only one could be set as default at a time. This meant that recently installed winamp could use only one or the other, which in my case is not ideal. The fix was fairly easy: pop my mobo cd in, and install those drivers. I couldn't install Realtek's setup utility though, because the disk refused to allow me to open the autorun program because win7 isn't a recognized OS. I s'pose I could just go digging through the disk looking for Vista 64 installer, but couldn't be bothered, as windows is doing a fairly good job of managing it.

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/

Either the HD Codecs or AC'97 Software should be what you need.

[Vertigo1]

Oh, and for those trying to get Daemon Tools to work with win7....

http://forum.daemon-tools.cc/f19/daemon ... post110698

Since a public beta is finally out, devs will take a look into soon. But first DuplexSecure needs to release a build of SPTD for Windows 7.

[Braedley]

So I just noticed something today. Windows 7 deteced my onboard audio properly, and supplied some drivers, but it split my 5.1 audio for my headset (I wouldn't recommend what I have over other full cuff headsets, but that's neither here nor there) from my 2.1 desktop speakers, and only one could be set as default at a time. This meant that recently installed winamp could use only one or the other, which in my case is not ideal. The fix was fairly easy: pop my mobo cd in, and install those drivers. I couldn't install Realtek's setup utility though, because the disk refused to allow me to open the autorun program because win7 isn't a recognized OS. I s'pose I could just go digging through the disk looking for Vista 64 installer, but couldn't be bothered, as windows is doing a fairly good job of managing it.

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/

Either the HD Codecs or AC'97 Software should be what you need.

Quite honestly, I couldn't care less since my sound is working properly. And since I couldn't retask the audio jacks on this mobo with the Realtek software (I could with the last one) in Vista, I'm not holding out hopes of being able to do it in Windows 7 until they update the software with that ability. My sound works the way it should now, so I'm happy.

[Vertigo1]

Quite honestly, I couldn't care less since my sound is working properly. And since I couldn't retask the audio jacks on this mobo with the Realtek software (I could with the last one) in Vista, I'm not holding out hopes of being able to do it in Windows 7 until they update the software with that ability. My sound works the way it should now, so I'm happy.

To be honest with you, the vista 64 drivers, while they do work, are a bit flakey. Yesterday they flat out refused to work with any audio application after the most recent update to the OS. After much troubleshooting, I just said "fuck it" and went with the MS drivers....which in their infinite wisdom splits the analog and digital outputs from working in conjunction. This normally wouldn't bother alot of people, but there are those of us that have our computers hooked up to home theater receivers, and use analog hardware (ie: headset), and love having them work at the same fucking time!

Now I'm sure some of you are just looking at my posts and going "he's just hating on 7 because its like Vista". Not so. I'm deliberately pointing out what I see to be flaws in the operating system for two reasons: One, I actually want confirmation from others whether or not said flaws exist, or is it really just my end. Two, I want the flaws I find to be corrected before RTM. (which is the entire point of them releasing the betas) I'm actually going to be using 7 as my "primary os" for a week (possibly two) so I can give it a proper shakedown.

That said, anyone with a microsoft webcam (specifically the vx-3000) gotten it to work with 7 yet? For the life of me, I cannot get their damn lifecam software to finish installing without stalling. (and yes, I am running the installer as an admin)

[Vertigo1]

Ok, now I'm sold. Sorry for the bump, but its enough that I'm sold on the OS now. I just hope that they don't go with the multiple editions like they did with Vista.

Problem Steps Recorder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99p-6oZ_Lyk

Not as good as incorporating something like crossloop, but its still a very good step in the right direction.

Windows Action Center
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v41GMi2r4DU

The aforementioned Resource Monitor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOq_tPuWkKE

Just for fun: Aero Shake!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4W_P_kqRf0

The best feature I've found is that the built-in CD burning capability will burn from an ISO image! I burned a couple copies of Ubuntu 8.10 w/o a single error (32 and 64 bit editions respectively).

[phongn]

Ok, now I'm sold. Sorry for the bump, but its enough that I'm sold on the OS now. I just hope that they don't go with the multiple editions like they did with Vista.

They are. It's annoying, but these versions are better thought out this time. For those of us in the First World, the versions are Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. Unlike Windows Vista, each successive version is a superset of the previous (so not annoyances like having to choose between Vista Home Premium and Business editions, which had different feature sets). Starter Edition (limited to three running applications, exclusive of security apps) is available to "emerging markets", Home Basic will not be available in the West (it removes Aero Glass and a few other things) and Enterprise is a corporate variant of Ultimate.

[Braedley]

Ok, now I'm sold. Sorry for the bump, but its enough that I'm sold on the OS now. I just hope that they don't go with the multiple editions like they did with Vista.

They are. It's annoying, but these versions are better thought out this time. For those of us in the First World, the versions are Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. Unlike Windows Vista, each successive version is a superset of the previous (so not annoyances like having to choose between Vista Home Premium and Business editions, which had different feature sets). Starter Edition (limited to three running applications, exclusive of security apps) is available to "emerging markets", Home Basic will not be available in the West (it removes Aero Glass and a few other things) and Enterprise is a corporate variant of Ultimate.

I thought Starter was also available for N.A. and Europe. Why anyone would buy it, even for a netbook, is beyond me, though. I could see using it for kiosk computers, but other than that...

[Sharp-kun]

I thought Starter was also available for N.A. and Europe. Why anyone would buy it, even for a netbook, is beyond me, though. I could see using it for kiosk computers, but other than that...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought MS only made Starter as they were forced to, not because they expect anyone to actually buy it.

[Vertigo1]

Ok, now I'm sold. Sorry for the bump, but its enough that I'm sold on the OS now. I just hope that they don't go with the multiple editions like they did with Vista.

They are. It's annoying, but these versions are better thought out this time. For those of us in the First World, the versions are Home Premium, Professional and Ultimate. Unlike Windows Vista, each successive version is a superset of the previous (so not annoyances like having to choose between Vista Home Premium and Business editions, which had different feature sets). Starter Edition (limited to three running applications, exclusive of security apps) is available to "emerging markets", Home Basic will not be available in the West (it removes Aero Glass and a few other things) and Enterprise is a corporate variant of Ultimate.

As much as I'd like to see them release just a "Home" and "Professional" version, this is atleast better than 5 different versions. Maybe soon they'll go back to just one version for all, but I doubt it.

[Praxis]

Really quick impressions from work:

Interface improved from Vista. Still prefer XP though; there's still a lot of stupid UI decisions. I don't like the new taskbar. It feels like OS X's dock, and I've always preferred Windows' taskbar (with grouping turned off).

MUCH faster in performance than Vista, props to Microsoft for that.

Connecting to a WiFi network is easier, some of the tools are nice, options are a bit easier to find in the control panel.

The performance is the thing that surprised me the most. It ran fine on an IBM R51, and Vista typically runs like a dog.

[Vertigo1]

I'm actually hoping to see a set of 7 optimized drivers so we can get a true judgement of performance over Vista. The vista driver do work, but I have seen a few hiccups from the nvidia video driver set. (ie: Supcom not recognizing the resolution I set in-game prior to patching to the latest version.)

[Stark]

Much faster in 'performance' than Vista? Do you want to quantify that at all? Vista is faster than XP when it comes to games, for instance.

I'm glad they've improved the fucking terrible wireless connection shit in Vista. Steal some features from OSX already.

[Resinence]

I'm actually hoping to see a set of 7 optimized drivers so we can get a true judgement of performance over Vista. The vista driver do work, but I have seen a few hiccups from the nvidia video driver set. (ie: Supcom not recognizing the resolution I set in-game prior to patching to the latest version.)

ATI have already released WDDM1.1 drivers for the windows 7 beta for their dx10/10.1 cards, after reading your post i decided to just do a quick test of whether aero memory usage is actually lower like MS claim (just a simple test, cold boot - check, change drivers, cold boot - check)



On the left is WDDM1.0 (Vista) Drivers, on the right is WDDM1.1 (Windows 7) Drivers.