Crysis 2 Multiplayer Demo released (PC + X360, PS3 to come)

[CaptHawkeye]

You're going to have to direct me to at least half as many instances where people on this forum start whole topics about "lol PC is teh suck" because you're probably just making shit up again.

[weemadando]

Grif, did you ever stop to consider that smaller levels might also be a smart business move. After all building massive levels is man hour and resource intensive. Smaller, more tightly defined levels cost less in man hours and the product retails for the same price. The ability to port to other platforms is just another bonus from that PoV.

[Singular Intellect]

Grif, did you ever stop to consider that smaller levels might also be a smart business move. After all building massive levels is man hour and resource intensive. Smaller, more tightly defined levels cost less in man hours and the product retails for the same price. The ability to port to other platforms is just another bonus from that PoV.

As a general rule, people expect more bang for their buck, not less in the interests of producing more profit for the distributor. Especially if a previous product established a level of content buyers would expect, at the very least, to be equaled in a newer release.

[General Zod]

Grif, did you ever stop to consider that smaller levels might also be a smart business move. After all building massive levels is man hour and resource intensive. Smaller, more tightly defined levels cost less in man hours and the product retails for the same price. The ability to port to other platforms is just another bonus from that PoV.

As a general rule, people expect more bang for their buck, not less in the interests of producing more profit for the distributor. Especially if a previous product established a level of content buyers would expect, at the very least, to be equaled in a newer release.

If only the first Crysis did well enough in sales that they could afford to put out the same level of content?

[Singular Intellect]

If only the first Crysis did well enough in sales that they could afford to put out the same level of content?

Well, according to Wikpedia:

According to The simExchange, the NPD Group reported that Crysis moved 86,633 retail units in the first two weeks of its release in North America[32], but while it beat their expectations, the sales were considered overall disappointing.[33] Two months later, on Electronic Arts earnings conference of the quarter, it was reported that Crysis has reached the 1 million units mark, and that it has exceeded their expectations.[34] On the other hand Cevat Yerli on an interview with PC Play in April 2008 stated that he was disappointed to see the game leading the charts in piracy and because of that his studio would not produce any more PC exclusives, as he believed a game such as Crysis would sell four to five times more copies if it was released on consoles.[35] Piracy figures released by TorrentFreak indicate that Crysis was indeed one of the most pirated PC games of the year.[36] In June 2008 Cevat stated that while their hopes haven't been met, the game has reached their real expectations[37] and in August he added that despite of its $22 million budget the game has turned profitable for them.[38] By May 2010 the game has sold over 3 million units (and its standalone expansion about 1.5 million units)[39] making it one of the best selling PC games of all time.

It certainly got positive reviews.

Although obviously I can't speak for what the company's expectations and goals are.

[adam_grif]

Grif, did you ever stop to consider that smaller levels might also be a smart business move. After all building massive levels is man hour and resource intensive. Smaller, more tightly defined levels cost less in man hours and the product retails for the same price. The ability to port to other platforms is just another bonus from that PoV.

Yes I considered that, but it's not a good excuse. Large open spaces are not demanding to create, arguably small tight spaces densely packed with things are much more difficult. CryEngine 2/3 sandbox editor is extremely intuitive to use, and amateur level designers have created no shortage of large, beautiful environments. The Jungles of Crysis 1 were something you could create by sculpting the land a little bit then applying a brush tool that put down trees and associated greenery. Not much design involved, and it was certainly not more difficult than the cities of C2 with distinctive buildings (that crumble in the background in-engine) and associated urban environments.

The fact that CE2 and 3 use global illumination with no pre-baked lighting (this is the reason why the console versions are technically extremely impressive, despite looking like ass in some respects) means that it's even easier to bust out levels and make small changes to them at will without worrying about screwing it all up. The fact that this is all so developer friendly and intuitive is one of the main selling points of the CryEngine platform.

If only the first Crysis did well enough in sales that they could afford to put out the same level of content?

Come off it. The game was a financial success, even though they winged about it at first because it didn't sell 1 million copies in 1 day. Crysis is rivaling Counter-Strike for PC games with ridiculously long tailed sales, reaching 3 million+ sales more than two years ago. Then a year after C1 launched they brought out an expansion pack that sold 1.5 million copies (and didn't have to recoup engine development costs).

Then they made very large amounts of money licensing CryEngine 2 (not many games, but a lot of simulators and military contracts and such). In fact, engine licensing is more profitable for them than game development is. They want a piece of Unreal Engine 3's action, which is why they focused development of CryEngine 3 on being able to run on consoles (which is a good thing, it's a great engine). At GDC you can see that Crysis 2 isn't even out yet, but they already have a crapload of licencees for CE3.

"Crysis was not profitable" is simply untrue on every level. It was hugely profitable, so much so that they opened a new studio and bought Free Radical development (Renamed Crytek UK). This isn't a case of "oh, PC sales were so bad so they need to make console games", it's a case of Crytek getting a whiff of that console pussy and deciding to focus development on it because they dream of getting a Call of Duty level sales smash, which is only possible when you bring the game out on PC, PS3 and 360 + give it a huge marketing push (Crysis 1 marketing = tiny).

[Sarevok]

When you sprinted in speed mode, you got a burst of super speed and could cross huge distances in a few seconds. Speed mode also boosted your melee attack speed. What they have in Crysis 2 is sprinting. It's the same speed as C1 sprinting, and now it's energy limited. You get no additionla functionality, and instead you lose some (by not having super speed dash anymore and not being able to switch into speed mode to cross large distances in shorter times when you didn't have a vehicle available for transport).

You covered everything but I will add something vital you missed.

In Crysis 1 speed mode you walked as fast as sprinting in any other mode. All the while being able to use your weapons. This made being able to run and gun a feasible strategy without consuming any extra energy whatsoever. In my playstyle I used the superspeed dash only occasionally. Most of the time the default movement speed alone gave me a huge mobility advantage on Crysis's large maps.

[adam_grif]

Yeah I know that, lol. I thought I was implying that with the sentence about being able to cross large distances in speed mode (which was a constant sprinting pace).

Since I haven't played on any difficulty other than Delta in several years, speed mode is absolutely crucial to surviving. One of the benefits of it is that you get the speed boost without draining any energy, you don't drain energy when hit (unlike armor) and you don't drain energy while firing (unlike strength). So it's often critical for when your stealth has gone FUBAR, your energy is zero and you need to get out of the line of fire NOW to regenerate your cloak and come back for a surprise attack from an unexpected angle.

[weemadando]

Large open spaces are not demanding to create. The Jungles of Crysis 1 were something you could create by sculpting the land a little bit then applying a brush tool that put down trees and associated greenery. Not much design involved.

So Crysis levels were simplistic and lazy?

Concession accepted.

[adam_grif]

Large open spaces are not demanding to create. The Jungles of Crysis 1 were something you could create by sculpting the land a little bit then applying a brush tool that put down trees and associated greenery. Not much design involved.

So Crysis levels were simplistic and lazy?

Concession accepted.

Oh you.

Are you saying that how challenging something is to make is directly proportional to how "good" it is, or how fun it is to play?

[Sarevok]

Crysis levels are easy to create because of the sophisticated Sandbox 2 editor. The levels themselves contain probably the most sophisticated physics and geometry ever created for a shooting game.

[Zixinus]

If I were someone who laughed more at human stupidity, I would point at how great Crysis is just by the fact at how quickly it descends into yet another discussion about Crysis.

Personally, I'm just annoyed. This is about Crysis 2, not one. We already had several threads about Crysis 1.

[General Zod]

If only the first Crysis did well enough in sales that they could afford to put out the same level of content?

Well, according to Wikpedia:

According to The simExchange, the NPD Group reported that Crysis moved 86,633 retail units in the first two weeks of its release in North America[32], but while it beat their expectations, the sales were considered overall disappointing.[33] Two months later, on Electronic Arts earnings conference of the quarter, it was reported that Crysis has reached the 1 million units mark, and that it has exceeded their expectations.[34] On the other hand Cevat Yerli on an interview with PC Play in April 2008 stated that he was disappointed to see the game leading the charts in piracy and because of that his studio would not produce any more PC exclusives, as he believed a game such as Crysis would sell four to five times more copies if it was released on consoles.[35] Piracy figures released by TorrentFreak indicate that Crysis was indeed one of the most pirated PC games of the year.[36] In June 2008 Cevat stated that while their hopes haven't been met, the game has reached their real expectations[37] and in August he added that despite of its $22 million budget the game has turned profitable for them.[38] By May 2010 the game has sold over 3 million units (and its standalone expansion about 1.5 million units)[39] making it one of the best selling PC games of all time.

It certainly got positive reviews.

Although obviously I can't speak for what the company's expectations and goals are.

Too bad reviews are completely irrelevant to sales figures?

[General Zod]

Come off it. The game was a financial success, even though they winged about it at first because it didn't sell 1 million copies in 1 day. Crysis is rivaling Counter-Strike for PC games with ridiculously long tailed sales, reaching 3 million+ sales more than two years ago. Then a year after C1 launched they brought out an expansion pack that sold 1.5 million copies (and didn't have to recoup engine development costs).

Come off what? Pointing out that Crysis wasn't the blockbuster success they'd hoped? If a game takes years to be profitable it's going to make any developer tepid about putting the same effort into a sequel.

[starfury]

Come off what? Pointing out that Crysis wasn't the blockbuster success they'd hoped? If a game takes years to be profitable it's going to make any developer tepid about putting the same effort into a sequel.

Particularly if you are not Blizzard or the sims games, those have truly long tailed, far longer then Crysis can ever dream, they are still being sold at full price after nearly a decade, and being able to draw the casual crowd suffers far less from piracy.

"Crysis was not profitable" is simply untrue on every level. It was hugely profitable, so much so that they opened a new studio and bought Free Radical development (Renamed Crytek UK). This isn't a case of "oh, PC sales were so bad so they need to make console games", it's a case of Crytek getting a whiff of that console pussy and deciding to focus development on it because they dream of getting a Call of Duty level sales smash, which is only possible when you bring the game out on PC, PS3 and 360 + give it a huge marketing push (Crysis 1 marketing = tiny).

Thanks to the budgets needed for such games, publishers and even developers increasely consider I million sales to be mid-range at best, since they lack the truly long tails of casual games like the sims and always beset by piracy.

[Executor32]

Well, I still have yet to play the damn thing, because it insists that my username is invalid. I was thinking of getting it, but Crytek can wait till this thing is on a Steam sale, now.

[adam_grif]

Come off what? Pointing out that Crysis wasn't the blockbuster success they'd hoped? If a game takes years to be profitable it's going to make any developer tepid about putting the same effort into a sequel.

You're saying it took too much effort to put a menu in that lets you tweak the advanced graphics settings that already exist, or to implement prone? It took too much effort to not go out of their way to encrypt the config files?

Your argument is nonexistent since the specific things we've complained about are things that should be in here even if the game is a console game first and foremost. CoD4 PC back in 2007 had all of these features ffs.

You're also making out like it's "PC's fault" that the game was only a large financial success giving them huge wealth, on the grounds that it wasn't a once-in-a-generation breakout success like Call of Duty 4 onwards was. And that because of this, the PC crowd "deserves" this shit sandwhich they're being forced to eat if they want to play Crysis 2.

[General Zod]

Come off what? Pointing out that Crysis wasn't the blockbuster success they'd hoped? If a game takes years to be profitable it's going to make any developer tepid about putting the same effort into a sequel.

You're saying it took too much effort to put a menu in that lets you tweak the advanced graphics settings that already exist, or to implement prone? It took too much effort to not go out of their way to encrypt the config files?

Your argument is nonexistent since the specific things we've complained about are things that should be in here even if the game is a console game first and foremost. CoD4 PC back in 2007 had all of these features ffs.

What do tweaking settings have to do with art assets? Or are you honestly so stupid you think they can just reuse half the assets in the original game for a NYC setting without investing a huge amount of man-hours?

You're also making out like it's "PC's fault" that the game was only a large financial success giving them huge wealth, on the grounds that it wasn't a once-in-a-generation breakout success like Call of Duty 4 onwards was. And that because of this, the PC crowd "deserves" this shit sandwhich they're being forced to eat if they want to play Crysis 2.

I'm not sure what the fuck you're saying here because it sure as fuck doesn't actually have anything to do with what I said.

[adam_grif]

What do tweaking settings have to do with art assets? Or are you honestly so stupid you think they can just reuse half the assets in the original game for a NYC setting without investing a huge amount of man-hours?

WTF are you talking about? If you go all the way back one page our complaints have been about a shit-ton of things, and your general response to the fact that they're "Taking out content" is that the PC version didn't sell well enough to justify it. But most of the shit they've been taking out has been shit that has absolutely nothing to do with that, i.e. advanced graphics settings. What does Crysis 1 selling a mere 3 million units and being hugely finanically successful have to do with the fact that I can't disable TAA or turn off the piss filters?

[weemadando]

What does Crysis 1 selling a mere 3 million units and being hugely finanically successful have to do with the fact that I can't disable TAA or turn off the piss filters?

Its about Crytek not wanting to compromise on their artistic vision apparently. Locking those settings means they have more control over what and how a player perceives their environment. Additionally some enemy design is apparently reliant on some of these high level features being enabled.

[adam_grif]

What does Crysis 1 selling a mere 3 million units and being hugely finanically successful have to do with the fact that I can't disable TAA or turn off the piss filters?

Its about Crytek not wanting to compromise on their artistic vision apparently. Locking those settings means they have more control over what and how a player perceives their environment. Additionally some enemy design is apparently reliant on some of these high level features being enabled.

Except they get turned off when you set it to low and medium anyway. This just lets me have good textures and lighting without the advanced filters that many people don't like. Some people have said that "Advanced" looks better than "Hardcore" for this reason.

Temporal Anti-Aliasing being "necessary to artistic vision" is also laughable since it's only included because it's "ok" while using minimal resources (it blends the current frame with the last frame to reduce aliasing) - the fact that I can't substitute that for MSAA is really fucking bizarre given the features of the engine (and of course practically every major PC game going back a decade has AF and MSAA options, including Crysis). My PC can take the performance hit, and if there was an option in the menu I'd absolutely use that.

Also, where does "Griff Richards" come from?

[Shinova]

Why they can't just label the settings low, medium, and high boggles my mind.

Anyway the gameplay is to put it in one word: meh. Killzone 3, for instance, has much, much better gameplay than this. Not a lot of weapons, very little difference if any besides weapons between the classes, and the abilities don't add much flavor. Even cloak doesn't have as much impact as the KZ3 one does. And the weapons feel so unexciting. I think this is the most disappointment a FPS multiplayer has given me out of all the games I've played.

If they had kept Crysis 1's speed mode and strength mode to allow chucking objects at other players or bashing down buildings on top of them, it would've made this game a lot more interesting.