New XCOM trailer - *looks* awesome, uses michaelangelo font.

[Covenant]

My small company was in development of an X-Com styled game that was meticulously designed to avoid the failings of the other ones--but everyone else wanted to explore other markets first so I had to shelve my pet project for a later date. Some day though, maybe. The only stopping block for me was development time. X-Com is a longer dev cycle than our team wanted to commit to a single project.

Stuff like this does make me agree with Stark that it's hilariously stupid that nobody can just get it together and make the darn thing. It's not like it's hard to follow the formula. People want to play something nearly like the original--so make it nearly like the original. Don't leave out major features and don't re-work the whole stupid thing.

You could basically give everyone a great product just by taking X-Com's horrific user interface and most clunky, out-of-date aspects and just cleaning them up. The bar is so low to the ground that absolute incompetents who can't even COPY a good game are still the only people who can make one that can be considered a successor. You can't get any more softball than that.

[Chardok]

It puzzles me why so many companies keep falling back on SHOTTER SHOTTER SHOTTER SHOTTER SHOTTER SHOTTER 3RD PERSON COVER SHOTTER DRIVING GAME ACTION GAME SHOTTER SHOTTER PLATFORMER, and no one seems to be looking back at the successes of the past and iterating on that/modernizing on that. I think I gave stark an example of Battlezone '96 being at least nominally successful and a really neat blend of RTS/FPS. the only other game I can think of that comes close to something like that in a modern context is Brutal Legend *shrug*. Then you have games with a pretty strong fake internet cult following like Star Control, XCom, Wing Commander, etc. that are just...I dunno, either ignored or just shit upon. and there's MONEY there, you know? as has been stated, clean up the graphics a bit, polish some interfaces, slap that bitch up on XBLA/PSN/Steam and commence swimming in giant piles of money.

[HMS Sophia]

I would buy up a redone XCOM in seconds. I've bought the original, and if they brought one out with new graphics and interface, I'd buy it, even if it was exactly the same. And this isn't even because I played it as a kid or something, I first heard of Xcom because of a lets play on this forum, 10 months ago or something.

[Chardok]

okay- all this talk of Xcom has me feeling nostalgic, so I went onto steam and saw that they have a buttload of xcom games to pick from (TFtD, Apocalypse, vanilla, Enforcer, Interceptor)

Now, I'm not going to be able, I don't think, to look at vanilla very long before wanting to tear my eyes out of my brain holes. Keeping that in mind, between the actual XCom games and the open source ones, where should I start? list in order from awesome to poo.

[PeZook]

Are you people seriously asking why no publisher wants to pay money for a modernized x-com game, when they can endlessly re-release the originals in various packets/game of the century editions for 10$ a copy and thus pay absolutely nothing for development?

Really?

When people stop buying the originals as is, maybe someone will try to modernize them, but right now it's just an endless source of money, especially with impulse buying.

[Chardok]

and what would a POLE know about game development/the gaming industry, precisely?


Oh, wait....

[PeZook]

Yeah, it's not like I have a degree in marketing or anything, what would I know.

Oh, wait...

[Chardok]

Yeah, it's not like I have a degree in marketing or anything, what would I know.

Oh, wait...

(Specifically meant The Witcher )

[PeZook]

[
(Specifically meant The Witcher )

Yeah...it would've been neat except for that part where people don't actually osmotically acquire business knowledge because someone of the same nationality had some success

[Chardok]

I thought...wait, I thought there was like 5 of you in the country and you were all employed by CD Projekt. DAMN MY MYOPIA HAS FAILED ME AGAIN!


srsly though - you make a fair point, I suppose. still, it irks us, I think, that developers will take a beloved franchise, slap the flavor of the hour on it, (Shooter, in this case, it seems), and expect 60 dollars for what amounts to a new Conduit game without the awesome ending. So our point is, if you're just going to half-ass it, like that, spend the resources simply cleaning up the old game, fix a few glaring errors, and we'll gobble that up, as well. I'm with whoever in the thread said (tl;dr) I'll rent it or buy it used just so 2K Marin doesn't get any benefit from my playing it. (And lets be fair - after Bioshock 2 then this, they've earned every kick in the nuts they get.

[Starglider]

I've always thought that Frozen Synapse style simultaneous turn-based gameplay effectively obsoletes the old 'move one man at a time' board-game derrived style. My start-up made a game that was essentially an early unpolished version of Frozen Synapse with a more realistic (2D top down) graphic style in 2002, but alas we just treated it as an engine test and didn't try to push it. Anyway, if you were actually going to evolve Xcom and do something the numerous open source and browser based clones aren't doing, I'd go for that. 'Exactly like X-Com but with a shiny GUI and in 1080p HD !' seems kind of lame as a development project.

[Mr Bean]

I've always thought that Frozen Synapse style simultaneous turn-based gameplay effectively obsoletes the old 'move one man at a time' board-game derrived style. My start-up made a game that was essentially an early unpolished version of Frozen Synapse with a more realistic (2D top down) graphic style in 2002, but alas we just treated it as an engine test and didn't try to push it. Anyway, if you were actually going to evolve Xcom and do something the numerous open source and browser based clones aren't doing, I'd go for that. 'Exactly like X-Com but with a shiny GUI and in 1080p HD !' seems kind of lame as a development project.

Yet no one has manged to do ever that.
You know very much that such a thing could sell at least 75k units if it got any kind of even basic media attention. 6$ a pop is still close to half a million if all you manage to do is sell to hard core old X-com fans willing to plunk down 5.99$ for the HD Double Turbo XCOM remix.

[Covenant]

okay- all this talk of Xcom has me feeling nostalgic, so I went onto steam and saw that they have a buttload of xcom games to pick from (TFtD, Apocalypse, vanilla, Enforcer, Interceptor)

Now, I'm not going to be able, I don't think, to look at vanilla very long before wanting to tear my eyes out of my brain holes. Keeping that in mind, between the actual XCom games and the open source ones, where should I start? list in order from awesome to poo.

I'd start with the original--it's not bad. It's colorful, it's retro, it's not going to burn your eyes out. It's not high resolution but the pixel art is very servicable and I think you'll forget how cruddy it looks. It's done well. Hell, it looks better than half the games for the Wii, so...

After that I'd try TFTD--the sequel/expansion pack remake of the original that keeps nearly everything the same, but changes up the techs, makes it more difficult overall, throws in some stranger aliens, and sets it underwater with Mach5 Submarines that can also fly. I did a Lets Play of it a billion years ago and it was incredibly fun. It's my favorite X-Com game because I love the even-brighter colors and crazier monsters. Dark tone, lively graphics.

After that I'd try the After___ games. The one set on Mars was the only one I played but it looked the best and it was a lot of fun. Easy, generally--but the game was fun and felt X-Commy. Also moddable for what it's worth, so it's got 'extra content' for free if you hunt for it.

And beyond that you venture into no-mans land. You're better off getting your fix in other ways, like Frozen Synapse or Jagged Alliance or that good looking game that went off-the-rails with Nazi Power Armor Laser Commandos.

[Stark]

I really hated the Afterx games. It doesn't help that they're so ugly and have more of an RPG-style combat, but I was probably just comparing it to the far superior tactical games available, like Silent Storm.

Playing UFO should really highlight to people how a simple game with a few mechanics can really hook players; most of it is really pretty crap, but the tech and the deformable terrain means you can still do things you can't do in other games.

I agree with Cov that TFTD is the best UFO game; the only thing it lacks is the fully sick interceptor music from the first game.

Speaking of Frozen Synapse, it's fucking awful. I'm pretty confident whatever Starglider was working on would have been waaaaaaaay better than that.

[Nephtys]

Frozen Synapse isn't as good IMO as Laser Squad Nemesis, which was a much more intricate and superior version of the same concept, only made like 5 years earlier. If only that game didn't have such a retarded subscription multiplayer mechanism, it'd have been much more popular.

UFO:AfterX's main faults was that damned real time system, and the fact that you only got 7 soldiers on the field at once. This means the best strategy pretty much always is 'run at the enemy as a mob and shoot them'. Also, each one of those games had at least some broken mechanic. In Aftermath, it was damn psychic aliens mind controlling your people every 2 seconds, without end. That, and the fact that all the enemies started wielding automatic rocket launchers. In Aftershock, it was those stupid ghosts that only the shittiest weapons could harm. In Afterlight, it was those retarded martians that only LUMBERJACK WEAPONS could harm.

The most 'faithful' successful X-COM-esque game I'd imagine is Silent Storm, that WW2 game. It has a lot of cool mechanics, such as bullets penetrating walls and ripping buildings down. It gets shit later on and has horrific load times while the enemy's taking it's turn though, which sucks. A pity.

Jagged Alliance 2 is still goddamn brilliant though. Also, everyone here should read the Ayn Rand themed Lets Play of Jagged Alliance 2, where Dagny Taggart, protagonist of Atlas Shrugged takes on the task of running a mercenary corporation to free market the hell out of a small 3rd world country.

[Stark]

Jagged Alliance 2 is really helped by the source code project and fan patches, etc, too. I never played it as a kid, but it's a really solid game.

[Covenant]

Yeah. There's some degree of informal consensus that if you love X-Com, one of your first stops should be Jagged Alliance. It's not X-Com but it's a 'unforgiving turn-based tactical strategy game,' which is a niche market, so you better take what you can get. Few games give you free-form options though. It's usually set mission structures.

I've played some Frozen Synapse when Neph mentioned it and I think it's a really fun tech demo game. I'd like to see that mechanic used in a different format, but I like the combination of real-time and turn-based and the capacity it has for shit going totally wrong or totally well. What I don't like is the mind-reading enemies that understand that I have a limited amount of turns and that their best plan is to hole up. That and the fact I'm being told to go do X with Y weapons and no planned layout. But like I said, a fun demonstration of the concept.

In Afterlight, it was those retarded martians that only LUMBERJACK WEAPONS could harm.

Not true! I am happy to inform you my Wall-E rovers with the 4 Miniguns could hose the Martians with lead and knock them the fuck out.

I really thought that one game looked pretty good and felt pretty good overall, with a few phases of escalation and such. It was more linear than X-Com but not bad for a knockoff, and I love Mars and Terraforming and the feeling of vulnerability you have at the beginning, so it was good for me. I also don't know what you mean by realtime--I remember doing it all pause-based.

[Starglider]

Speaking of Frozen Synapse, it's fucking awful. I'm pretty confident whatever Starglider was working on would have been waaaaaaaay better than that.

Really? I haven't played it, but it got really good writeups on assorted indie game blogs. Maybe that's more down to marketing aka social networking aka spamming twitter/facebook/youtube ridiculously than game design though.

Our test game at Destiny Star (as I recall the working title was 'strike team') had shooting through walls (with heavy MGs), 'sprayable' overwatch zones and blowing up / collapsing buildings (with RPGs). The game progressed in 3 second blocks of utter chaos; your 12 guys tended to last five to ten rounds. it was pretty hilarous during playtest, but the mechanics probably needed a lot of tuning to be releasable

[Covenant]

Frozen Synapse is cool, but I don't know if it is good. When you play it you realize how interesting the simultaneous movement is, with giving your guys orders and having them all play out at once--it's a lot of fun. But the lack of control you have diminishes it quite a bit. The maps are also randomized so despite the game having a very "Rainbow 6" kind of commando feel to the way you can sweep rooms, you can't practice one map until you have it perfect.

I think achieving tactical perfection is a big part of the fun for me--I'd pride myself on playing Superhuman TFTD and never losing a man once I got plastic armor. FS basically takes that away. And it also takes away the ability to flatten the entire map with explosives while taking horrible, lasting casualties too--because you don't have a 'man pool,' you just have levels.

So I think it's really quite good but it's a very 'smaller' game than something with persistent soldiers. I also think the skillcap is a little lower than it should be because the enemies are so unpredictable, while also being so likely to just play defense. Often times they just decide to defend themselves by staying in unassailable locations. While that may be 'smart' it's certainly not fun to feel like you need to sacrifice a man as a distraction to get someone else closer.

[Stark]

Really? I haven't played it, but it got really good writeups on assorted indie game blogs. Maybe that's more down to marketing aka social networking aka spamming twitter/facebook/youtube ridiculously than game design though.

Our test game at Destiny Star (as I recall the working title was 'strike team') had shooting through walls (with heavy MGs), 'sprayable' overwatch zones and blowing up / collapsing buildings (with RPGs). The game progressed in 3 second blocks of utter chaos; your 12 guys tended to last five to ten rounds. it was pretty hilarous during playtest, but the mechanics probably needed a lot of tuning to be releasable

The best way I can describe it is as a save/load whore simulator. It captures that moment where you are trying to do something very limited 'get around the corner', or 'get the thing on the ground' without being horribly killed. It's amazingly ugly, appears to have almost no sound, and there is no progression anywhere except into new and interesting corners and doors you need to get around. The orders interface is horrible (both in appearance and functionality). So awful I quickly moved on to that Anomaly game, which while not very sophisticated is at least interesting.

I guess I can see what they wanted to do (random tactical problems), but for me its a complete failure. I could just load up JA2 and have actual fun, instead of abstract ugly zot zot 'fun' without context.

[Korgeta]

Okay, so E3's got some more details and uh... oh...
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-max-gives ... 3405.phtml

Basically, this dipshit says 'Seriously old fans of the series, it's not as bad as you think!' before confirming it's precisely as bad as you think, possibly worse. For example, gems from that snippet:

'It's not a First Person Shooter!'
Really? Why the hell then is the gameplay about running around in first person, shooting things?

'I know old people really liked that click-go-here sorta game'
So you never played the classics yet say it's 'not as bad as it seems'... kay.

'It's squad based! You get to pick a squad in the bunker! Then you take two men and fight aliens.'
Two men is now 'squad based'. Urrggghhhh.

'It's very cool and stylish, like 1962 and cold war. They're wearing like, neckties.'
Man. Now if only I gave a shit about the necktie quotient of my games.

'It's got a cool story mode that you'll love. Like, you go do these missions in the bunkers and talk to people, and then get side missions'
...so it's a goddamn LINEAR game, with SIDE MISSIONS. That's the worst thing yet.

'You get to talk to your people and they're really serious. Like. Chainsmoking in a bunker'
Wow, is that really the highlight of this game? That you can talk to NPCs who are smoking?

I watched that clip and other then that guy should had took a breather beforehand and better thought how his commentary would go, the fact he states that you take two men to fight and that is effectively a squad is pretty much bull. Unless there is a switch between eight characters etc and with directing commands then maybe.

As for the game itself, is a 3D update of xcom that hard and costly to do in the gaming industry. Xcom could work quite well in 1st person when you take into consideration how many corners you had to carefully look around in the ufo's before walking out or in the city when you tread carefully so as to heck not to be caught offguard by the chryssalids and all of that was in 3rd person. How cooler (and even more terrifying) would that be in 1st person? Xcom has a number of great elements for horror and adventure, so why these people decided to take XCOM and put in a 60's spin whilst taking away everything relating to the first Xcom I do not know. If there was going to be a change then change the armor, I don't think anyone is going to miss the design for those flying suits!

Well still got my copy from underdog still.

[Covenant]

Alright, so they finally released the "Gameplay Trailer" of the action we've seen so far, basically just showing what they got the clips from with a bit of developer commentary attached to narrate it and show off a few of the other, uh, "features."

Here, lemme link you to it via Escapist, since I don't know how to imbed.

Anyway, what I came away with was yet more frustration.

Your characters are accumulated via some kind of in-game capture or rescue function it seems. The character advancement seems cribbed directly from Mass Effect, a system which I really hate. I tried playing those games and just gave up, it's not my cup of tea.

It seems like you'll eventually have quite a few, at least 8, and I'm not sure if you can hire them freeform and name them as they come in, but they're referred to by title (job/class) rather than by name so it's entirely possible. However, we see a female name, so that would presume female models. What I assume, if they wanted to split the difference and try to appease some fans, is that you have a set number of unique individuals who you name. I could be wrong, but I haven't heard them talk to each other in terms of name.

The aliens are pretty much what we expected--boring lego men with no sense whatsoever, it just seems like a cheap opportunity to re-use existing animations and make it faster to produce. Combat is ME2 style and pretty dull, we see an entire fight and it's hard to imagine actually losing a fight with these guys, given that you have such a substantial amount of power to keep your guys alive.

Unlike, well, basically any other game, your characters can't die and won't stay dead in-combat. I don't know if ME2 had the ability to wake your guys back up, but when they eventually run into the giant orbital laser it manages to FINALLY put one of the cotton-shirt wearing 1960's dudes down. Surprising how weak alien technology is... anyway, the guy goes down, and the main character can't use his "Capture" spell to pokeball the enemy. Apparently the dude who went down had the Pokeball Powerpack so you need to run over and Combat Revive him. So you throw a magic energy shield around him and then go 'revive' him by dragging him back to his feet, and then you can capture the giant space laser.

Seems pretty much as far from X-COM as possible now. I doubt there will even be the opportunity to capture or dissect aliens, because everything seems to be "living technology" that you either shoot until it escapes back to the void or, as the guy says, "melted down" into some kind of valuable resource. It appears that you either re-use the alien robots in the mission, where they die off after a few seconds (unfortunate, woulda' been fun to actually gain a real tactical advantage instead of a short-term buff) or are destroyed in melting process.

Some bits can be picked up. It seems like the aliens dropped a laser gun--why some laser guns may drop and others do not does confuse me but, eh, whatever. Hopefully they all drop, but I won't hold my breath, everything else seems so linear right now that you may as well see it as a normal Tactical Shooter where you just pick your next linear mission from a big map. They even tell you where to go next.

Ridiculous.

[Nephtys]

Elerium? Fuck you! That's crude oil!
Skyranger? Double fuck you! That's a generic helicopter!
Campaign? Nope, confirmed as 'story missions in sequence' with optional side levels to gain resources. Whoopie.
Hell. Research doesn't even make sense. If you capture an alien artifact, you don't get to research it. Nope, you instead collect 100 Research Points that can be allocated towards things!

Even as an FPS it looks bad. The enemies stand there like idiots, do no damage, can't hurt you when you have the power of chest-high walls, and all problems are solved by shooting them with a machine gun.

[Starglider]

Even as an FPS it looks bad. The enemies stand there like idiots, do no damage, can't hurt you when you have the power of chest-high walls, and all problems are solved by shooting them with a machine gun.

Yeah, looks like another case of 'failed movie scriptwriters wash up in the gaming industry and then try to make a film disguised as a game'. Back when programmers were in control of the industry, sometimes graphics tricks got a bit too much attention but at least they were primarily engineering game mechanics and conceived the game in those terms.

[JonB]

I can't find the interview where they said so, but this game wasn't supposed to be X-COM, but something different. It's just that the developers slapped the name on for brand recognition when they remembered that they owned it. So this is an X-COM game in line with Enforcer, if barely.

((Does some more Google-Fu to find that interview.))