Game of the Year 2011?

[Highlord Laan]

And finding DA2 to be a cool game speaks a great deal as to just how low your standards are.

So what's wrong with it? It wasn't boring as shit like DA1, the combat was pretty much the same, the story moved faster... the-

Not enough A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-AWESOME with every button press.

Oh I see. People on the internet said so!

Are you aware that in DA1 you also pressed a button to attack?

Actually, since I play games on a PC, I didn't have to mash buttons to do much of anything. And since DA2 was a shitty console game ported to PC, it's sucked even more. Never mind being not even half the size of DAO, costing more, lasting not even a third as long in play and utilizing the kind of mechanics that only ten-second attention span CoD retard can enjoy in between mashing more cheeto dust into a controller for killstreaks and it becomes pretty obvious why DA2 is and forever will be remembered as the shitpile it is.

[Stark]

Actually I don't know any real people that dislike it, in contrast to DA1 which was regarded as amazingly boring and bland. For a great many RPGs, DA2's combat would be an improvement.

But I see you're a laughably insecure PC gamer (who apparently plays games without buttons) who just wants to talk about how DA2 is for 'retards'. There is nothing funnier than people throwing the nerdrage around because of shit people told them on the internet.

[Lonestar]

Where's Space Marine?

[Tolya]

Actually, since I play games on a PC, I didn't have to mash buttons to do much of anything. And since DA2 was a shitty console game ported to PC, it's sucked even more. Never mind being not even half the size of DAO, costing more, lasting not even a third as long in play and utilizing the kind of mechanics that only ten-second attention span CoD retard can enjoy in between mashing more cheeto dust into a controller for killstreaks and it becomes pretty obvious why DA2 is and forever will be remembered as the shitpile it is.

To me, the reduced playthrough time of DA2 was actually an improvement. The first time I played through DAO I just got bored half-through the game.

DA2 wasn't perfect, but it was more focused and tight plot-wise. Plus, not having to save the fucking world AGAIN was a welcome refreshment. And I finished DA2 before I got bored which is a fucking big improvement over most of the RPG's that are released nowadays.

And I guess by your standards I am a CoD retard since I like the series for their welcome feature of not having to spend AN ENTIRE FUCKING MONTH to get into it. There are some of us who have lives you know.

But I guess the PC games have to be made for f4t l33t n3rds who will rave about doing boring stuff no one cares about.

And explain to me please why porting is bad in itself, because apparently to you that is a bad thing in DA2.

[Thanas]

I recently bought COD MW1 and was really disappointed how short it was. I played through it in less than eight hours and considering I don't have "l33t shooter skillz" and had to reload a lot it really was too short for a full budget title for me. Seriously, I cannot imagine having to purchase it full price. 50 bucks for an eight hour game?

[APD1026]

DA2 was a disappointment in a lot of ways. The incredibly small amount of locations and the blatant recycling of caves and other interiors was pretty shocking, for one thing. The overall narrative was built up to the third act pretty well, but the stories themselves never really had the scope of the first game (in Act 1 you're just putting together money for a trip to the Deep Roads, it isn't until you actually go on the trip that things get interesting).

It did a couple things well, though. The new combat at least looked more engaging than in the first game (on consoles). As someone who doesn't really play PC games, I appreciated the tweaks made to the combat in the game. Unfortunately, this meant that the product delivered to PC gamers was even more flawed. I was pretty upset about that, Bioware usually delivers such high quality. I thought the new visual style was pretty good, I like how it was kind of darker than the first game (the Qunari looked pretty awesome).

In short, I think the game is judged so harshly because Bioware is one of the best developers around and we as a gaming society expect more from them. I can't wait to see how they decide to try and fix it when they get around to making DA3. Until then, we have Mass Effect 3 to look forward to, as well as the new IP they're announcing at the Video Game Awards next week, which is pretty exciting I think.

[Tolya]

DA2 was a disappointment in a lot of ways. The incredibly small amount of locations and the blatant recycling of caves and other interiors was pretty shocking, for one thing.

Which is a bad thing of course, but not really different from DAO.

The overall narrative was built up to the third act pretty well, but the stories themselves never really had the scope of the first game (in Act 1 you're just putting together money for a trip to the Deep Roads, it isn't until you actually go on the trip that things get interesting).

A welcome refreshment for me - not having to save the world. Besides, this is a feature, not a problem. Subjectively you may not like it, but listing is under "why DA2 is bad" just make you look like an ass.

It did a couple things well, though. The new combat at least looked more engaging than in the first game (on consoles). As someone who doesn't really play PC games, I appreciated the tweaks made to the combat in the game.

Well, it is difficult to compare the new combat system when all DA2 did was fling enemies at you en-masse. I mean, there were waves of robbers that barely fitted on screen!

Bioware usually delivers such high quality. I thought the new visual style was pretty good, I like how it was kind of darker than the first game (the Qunari looked pretty awesome).

You are kidding, right?

In short, I think the game is judged so harshly because Bioware is one of the best developers around and we as a gaming society expect more from them.

You are kidding.

Best =/= Popular/Rich

I can't wait to see how they decide to try and fix it when they get around to making DA3. Until then, we have Mass Effect 3 to look forward to, as well as the new IP they're announcing at the Video Game Awards next week, which is pretty exciting I think.

I do look forward to ME3 but I am really afraid that Bioware will turn the game into a nerdwank with a deus ex in the end. Or they will invoke a computer virus that kills the Reapers. I really have no big expectations, considering the jokes their writing department pulled on us in the past.

[Stark]

Where's Space Marine?

Literally nobody liked it but you. People are scared to mention it when you're around because you'll give them the hard sell.

We COULDN'T mention it.

Like Tolya, I thought the smaller scope of DA2 was a good thing, in particular for making the story accessible and interesting right away, rather than having to play through four hours of Helms Deep ripoff to get anywhere. I'm not married to turn-based (or fake turn based) combat either.

I'm interested in ME3 because again like Tolya I'm expecting it to be improved mechanicaly (like ME-ME2 and DA1-DA2) but the ME story has always been complete mastubatory bullshit from day one and the odds of saving the world without becoming literally jesus to millions of cameltoe fangirls is nearly zero.

[APD1026]

My bad Tolya, I definitely should have specified that those were just my opinions of the game, I wasn't stating a fact.

I'm also not kidding, I personally liked the new graphical style of the game, and I stand by Bioware as one of the best developers around. Their pedigree speaks for itself:

Knights of the Old Republic
Jade Empire
Mass Effect
Dragon Age: Origins
Mass Effect 2

Hell, they were even able to create a pretty decent RPG starring Sonic the Hedgehog. I have played and really enjoyed all of these games, and I feel that makes them a pretty great developer. Of course, just my opinion.

Anyway, what was your personal favorite game of 2011?

[Stark]

I love useless statements like 'I stand by Bioware as one of the best developers around. Their pedigree speaks for itself'. Its the tribalism of game nerds on display to everyon except themselves. 'Just my opinion', lol. If only you could base your attitudes on something measurable?

Some of us judge games on their actual contents, and not what other games have been made by the same developers.

Tolya, I know you didn't enjoy Dead Island as much as I did, but what other games did you play this year? I found Witcher 2 pretty disappointing (although I should have expected 'amazingly inefficient engine, lol' and I'm not sure what else you've put much time into.

[APD1026]

[quote="Stark]
Some of us judge games on their actual contents, and not what other games have been made by the same developers.[/quote]

Well I wasn't defending DAII in that post, I was defending Bioware as a developer...what games the developer has made should be the basis for whether or not the developer is good, right?

I, personally, feel that Bioware is one of the current best developers. Can't really disprove an opinion, can you?

[Tolya]

Tolya, I know you didn't enjoy Dead Island as much as I did, but what other games did you play this year? I found Witcher 2 pretty disappointing (although I should have expected 'amazingly inefficient engine, lol' and I'm not sure what else you've put much time into.

I should be patriotic about Witcher since not only I am Polish, but I also work at the company which made it. Witcher 1 is kinda in my backlog, when I bought it my computer was a bit too slow to run it properly.

Witcher 2 was... well, kinda disappointing from the UI point of view. That's for one. Small fonts and lot's of text - I prefer my books in paper and my games in action. Seriously though, the plot failed to pull me in because the "clear your name" cliche has been recycled ad nauseum. Plus it just didn't feel tight - I reached the first city in the swamps and lost interest. Dunno, maybe I don't feel like I have enough time lately to invest into a long RPG or maybe Im just getting old.

Actually Dead Island was great to me. Definitely one of the better games released this year. The dealbreaker in this game is the way it's constructed around a coop mode. So you run around singleplayer but lo and behold during cutscene there are four of you. I mean, we are past the "Might and Magic" and "Betrayal at Krondor" times, right? But hacking zombies was super fun and very well balanced. When we discussed DI I was playing the initial stages of that other "sandbox" zombie game from Capcom which turned out to be shit.

Other games I played this year... off the top of my head. And I don't care about multiplayer really.

COD MW3: an exhilirating ride while it lasts. The plot is ridiculous, but the game is fun to me for some bizarre reason. Maybe because of all the milwank, I don't know.

LA Noire: that was an excellent idea, but the game really revolves around a set of minigames, chief of which is reading people's faces in the way the developer IMAGINES that it should look like. If catching lies was that easy in real life there would be no politicians. As for the game itself, I lost interest after completing the Homicide desk and moved on.

Bulletstorm: it was colourful, ridiculous and super fun. I loved it. Definitely one of the better games this year.

DEHR: I mean, what the fuck? Mediocre game with a lame "cutscene machine" ending. This is what happens when you want to remake the original DE without really noticing that the world has moved on and what was interesting back in the day is just old now. And again, the ending. What the fuck? I liked it when I played it, but when I am thinking about the game now it just feels one of those run of the mill games.

Portal 2: I liked it. As far as sequels go, I think this one was a good one. They didn't really alter much so it felt like an expansion pack, but with the flood of crap oozing from the devs lately this has been one of the better games this year.

Saints Row 3: I am playing through it now. Mind you, I only played the second part for a brief moment, since the PC port was shitty. But I am having a blast with the third instalment, even though trailer made me skeptical. The story is quite tight and interesting, there is enough variation to keep me glued to the screen.

I read your opinion on SR3 being too short and a bit boring in the late game, but maybe I haven't noticed these problems because last sandbox game I was playing was GTA IV and it's expansions. So my standards were set low.

Fable 3: predictable and boring. You have a dog. Yippee...

That's some titles off the top of my head. Most fun I had this was year in Minecraft. Oh, and DCS A10 started being playable this year and I really like those kinds of sims so I would definitely put it on a list.

For me, Saints Row 3 is a strong contender for the GOTY 2011, but considering the level of the competition I am not so sure that is such a compliment.

Overally this feels like a pretty shitty year in video gaming. Or maybe there is something I missed?

[Tolya]

I, personally, feel that Bioware is one of the current best developers. Can't really disprove an opinion, can you?

It's up to you to prove your assertion, not up to us to disprove it. This is called the burden of proof.

Of course you can have it your way and I can call you an idiot and it's up to you to disprove it.

[Stark]

'Can't disprove an opinion' is just a pussy way of saying 'my opinion is baseless'. You can totally discuss opinions and their basis, assuming they have a basis beyond I JUST LIKE IT OK?????

When I say SR3 is short, I think its mostly perspective. I finished it at about 24h of play, which is 'long' by most standards, but I remember playing Vice City and San Andreas for months, and I can't see myself doing that with SR3. That said, I'm still playing it... soooo... :V

I hope you tried all the endings in DEHR, because one of them has Batman say 'I THINK THEY WOULD BE GOOD RULERS, RIGHT' over a picture of Tony Blair. Best part of the game.

I've been considering giving Bulletstorm another throw because people keep telling me it 'wasn't funny', when I remember cracking up constantly.

[Tolya]

I've been considering giving Bulletstorm another throw because people keep telling me it 'wasn't funny', when I remember cracking up constantly.

It wasn't funny the 'Beverly Hills Cop' way, but it wasn't taking itself seriously. Which today makes for a funny game.

[Thanas]

Witcher 2 was... well, kinda disappointing from the UI point of view. That's for one. Small fonts and lot's of text - I prefer my books in paper and my games in action. Seriously though, the plot failed to pull me in because the "clear your name" cliche has been recycled ad nauseum. Plus it just didn't feel tight - I reached the first city in the swamps and lost interest. Dunno, maybe I don't feel like I have enough time lately to invest into a long RPG or maybe Im just getting old.

Witcher 1 was awesome, definitely in the top two RPGs I ever played.

Witcher 2 however completely neutralized any character choices you made in part 1, which kinda felt to me like it would go against the philosophy of Witcher 1.

[APD1026]

'Can't disprove an opinion' is just a pussy way of saying 'my opinion is baseless'. You can totally discuss opinions and their basis, assuming they have a basis beyond I JUST LIKE IT OK?????

When Knights of the Old Republic first released I had never played a Star Wars game that made me feel like I was part of the rich and detailed universe within the fiction in that way before. Bioware managed to create an entirely new story set hundreds of years before the prequels, with new characters and situations that felt totally fresh and fit right in to the world without trying to jam in as many references to the OT as possible like the prequels did. The game had an incredibly strong villain, as well as a decent cast of main characters, and the ending of the game is one I will never forget, as I'm sure many other people won't forget either.

Mass Effect and its sequel took the work Bioware did on KOTOR and brought it to then next logical step: they created a world and a lore as detailed and engaging as Star Wars itself and allowed gamers to become their own hero in it. THe shooter gameplay in the first game was made even better in the second, despite the drawback of lessened RPG elements in the sequel. I spent so much time on those games and had a ton of fun doing it. Not to mention the visuals were pretty awesome (I even enjoyed the "film grain" visual option).

Dragon Age: Origins is a pretty divisive game on these forums, I feel like. I really liked it, though. I felt the story was pretty strong, despite the beginning definitely being a Helms Deep rip-off, as someone said earlier, I think it was Stark. The visuals were decent enough, and I played on console so the game definitely did not control as well as it did on PC; I didn't really care, though because I had fun playing the game. I even had fun playing DAII, despite its flaws, because I still enjoyed the story and the characters.

Basically, my opinion on Bioware being a great developer comes from the fact that they tell great stories through enjoyable gameplay, and I have fun playing their games, most of all. That is why I feel they are great.

Anyway, I had fun with Bulletstorm's campaign, I thought it was pretty fun, and I enjoyed the writing in like a B-movie, doesn't take itself too seriously way, as Tolya explained.

LA Noire: that was an excellent idea, but the game really revolves around a set of minigames, chief of which is reading people's faces in the way the developer IMAGINES that it should look like. If catching lies was that easy in real life there would be no politicians. As for the game itself, I lost interest after completing the Homicide desk and moved on.

I agree with this. I liked the story in the game, as well, but I became frustrated with the face-reading, and also with the monotony of the game. The city was pretty boring outside of some random street crimes, and the main plot was just a loop of the same activities: get assignment, go to crime scene, interrogate people, accused tries to run for it, interrogate again, case closed. I liked the period chosen and the story, but not the execution.

[Stark]

I don't think you understand how to talk about things like stories in a way that inst repeating 'I liked it'. We know you liked it. Either talk about why or stop relating yourself; if enough people post in this thread you'll work it out.

Actually, the threads on Witcher 2 are probably good for that. How ineffective that story was told, etc.

[Vendetta]

If there's a genuine criticism to be made of Bioware it's that they tend to hove close to formula. Even Sonic Chronicles follows the Bioware formula.

Now the formula is at least their own, rather than trying to be something else. There are three or four places where the Main Plot happens, and you can go to any of them you like in any order (except when you can't, like the original Dragon Age, where minimum and maximum points on the level scaling charts means that there is an order you're supposed to do the areas in).

It tends to be when they break away from that formula the most (Jade Empire, Dragon Age 2) that nerds whine the most, so it's not too much of a surprise that they keep going back to it.

As for their plots, <charname> saves the world from Insert Doom Here is basically the plot of massmarket entertainment, whether it's Jack Bauer and terrorists or Commander Shepard and robot cuttlefish. That's not really going to go away any time soon, because it turns out that it's what audiences will pay for, whether they're paying to watch it or do it themselves.

[Stark]

Missing the action/hub of boredom/3 missions/fixed mission/finale thing is probably a lot of why DA2s plot actually works as opposed to being paint by numbers awful like the ME games. I don't think the structure is responsible for the childish dialogue and braineead consequences, though; that's pure fanservice. I'd actually forgotten how awful the railroading way in the ME games in particular.

That said, Skyrim reminded me why Bioware is considered to have 'good' voice acting and writing - simply because they're way better than Beth. The market is either driven by fanboy dogshit like 'Bioware is good therefore Bioware is good' or nerd just reject anything different so violently it never sells. Amusingly even Bioware tells the whiners to fuck off. :V

[APD1026]

\DAII definitely deviated from the Bioware formula, but I like the story in DAII, especially the second act involving the Qunari. I also really liked how the growing conflict with the Circle was always in the background of the game, like it was constantly being referenced in Acts I and II, while building up to the big finale in Act III. I had a lot of fun with Dragon Age II in general, as the recycled locations were really the only major problems I had with the game. I liked the new visuals, I liked the tweaks made to make the battles look more dynamic, on consoles anyway (if I'm going to be pressing "X" over and over again, I at least want to see some constant movement). It was actually one of the games I really enjoyed this year, mostly because of the story and the characters.

I'm also a huge fan of Bethesda, and I can agree that Bioware does tend to have better voice actors than Bethesda does, which is a plus in terms of storytelling.

Did you enjoy Dragon Age II, or did you just like the way the story was told as opposed to Bioware's other games?

[Stark]

I like direct combat as opposed to triggered combat, so I didn't have the problems with it some did, but the spawn waves approach to combat wasn't so good. I just treated it like a Disblo-em-up, because 'slow' combat doesn't mean 'good' or 'smart' combat. It has weak Bioware writing but it was less tiresome than ME2and older Bioware games. I've heard the act structure introduced some problems wi accessing DLC, bu I never bought any.
The worst thing about the game is the chick voiced by Stonehenge from Torchwood. :v

[Vendetta]

Missing the action/hub of boredom/3 missions/fixed mission/finale thing is probably a lot of why DA2s plot actually works as opposed to being paint by numbers awful like the ME games. I don't think the structure is responsible for the childish dialogue and braineead consequences, though; that's pure fanservice. I'd actually forgotten how awful the railroading way in the ME games in particular.

I did thing Mass Effect 2 did a good deal to break away from The Bioware Structure. It was still "do these things in any order", but it wasn't afraid to pop up a mission and say "this is important, do it now" as well. It was a decent blend of feeling like you could go and explore the game and being engaged with saving the galaxy. I mean okay, reapers and geth coming to eat us and all, but dammit I'm chasing monkeys here. Space Monkeys.

That said, Skyrim reminded me why Bioware is considered to have 'good' voice acting and writing - simply because they're way better than Beth. The market is either driven by fanboy dogshit like 'Bioware is good therefore Bioware is good' or nerd just reject anything different so violently it never sells. Amusingly even Bioware tells the whiners to fuck off. :V

By and large Bioware do hire good voice actors. Mark "plank" Meer notwithstanding. Their writing isn't always top notch (it's good for videogame writing, but that's the sine qua non of damning something with faint praise), but it doesn't at least feel like they've grabbed random people off the streets to provide the voices or done Beth's usual trick of hiring someone dead famous but only paying for about ten lines of dialogue from them. Like the original Star Wars the dialogue is cheese, but the actors sell it well enough that you can let it slide.

[Starglider]

I did thing Mass Effect 2 did a good deal to break away from The Bioware Structure. It was still "do these things in any order", but it wasn't afraid to pop up a mission and say "this is important, do it now" as well. It was a decent blend of feeling like you could go and explore the game and being engaged with saving the galaxy.

That was an improvement, but it was still some very basic scripted conditions and it showed. Compare that to Star Control 2 where a whole galactic war proceeds in the background, with species and their areas of influence moving around the galaxy map and events combining triggers and play-time timers. Admittedly that was pretty basic due to the technology limitations of 1992, but think how good the feeling of immersion in an active galaxy could be if ME3 did this with modern technology and significant dev resource. Unfortunately though unless you are making a 4X game (mostly relegated to third-tier devs now) this kind of programmer-driven, algorithmic approach to high-level game design just doesn't happen. The people coming up with game plots and structure are locked into the movie script paradigm and even letting the player choose the chapter order is a big deal for them.

[Xisiqomelir]

Probably either Radiant Historia or Xenoblade. I'm leaning slightly more towards Xenoblade because it's a longer game and the English localisation was so well done, but Radiant Historia has all of those great Atlus touches that games like Etrian Odyssey and FES have.

Of course, if they don't qualify because of release date technicalities, then I'm stuck because 2011 really has not been very good.