Total War: Shogun 2 - Fall of the Samurai

[weemadando]

So, I just killed 2290 for 11 losses.

Gatling guns and kneeling fire infantry ain't nothing to fuck wit' son.

I hate to think of the consequences had there been naval support.

[weemadando]

I think I just had the greatest victory I've yet managed in a Total War game. Mightn't have been the most impressive, but it was important.

Had Yari Kachi, 2 Spear Levy and 3 Garrison Levy "repressing" a province I'd taken a while back, but had recently moved most of my forces on from. The enemy attacks (without notice - goddamn fog of war and a stolen march) with a General's bodyguard, MANY line infantry and levy infantry and two wooden cannon batteries.

I am defending a single wall two gate position on the hill. They have three main advances - large units of line infantry on 2 fronts supported by hte general and a few levy infantry screening their cannon. I can't just sit tight as the cannon will eventually wipe me out, so I decide to go all out on offence. I move my Infantry levies to try and hold the main attacks while I marshal my spearmen into a desperate breakout attempt - they rush out of the gate and take the screening levy infantry at a charge (using loose formation as cannon and musket fire was hitting them the whole time). The levy infantry falter and I take the opportunity to rush a unit past and take the cannons. With the levy infantry now flanked and almost surrounded, they break and the general and his bodyguard come over to try and rally this flank. In a sign of total idiocy, he does this despite there being 3 units of spearmen there. His unit is wiped, while the attempts by the line infantry to storm the castle fail and my units outside the castle have manoeuvred to block the main exits from the map. It turns into a massacre as they lose the majority of their army and I return to my stronghold with captured guns.

On a strategic level, this was one of my two "beachhead" provinces onto Honshu, so it was of critical importance - if I could hold this, I held one end of the railway and could continue controlling much of the straits while the rest of my army continued rolling up the remnant forces a few provinces away. Now, with guns in that keep, it'll be that much harder for them to take it next time they try. I'm fucking chuffed by that outcome.

[weemadando]

Just pulled off an audacious coup-de-main operation to get two well protected ports near Edo to secure a beachhead up there.

After dealing with a few counter-attacks I begin to consolidate in those two provinces.

And then my fucking neighbouring ally attacks my vassal state and wants me to join in. This ally had been guarding most of the trade routes with his navies and had armies moving constantly in my lands. My two main offensive forces are at the other end of the country.

So, I'll join your little curb-stomp of my vassal. I'll do that.

But you best not fucking sleep ever again. Because when you do close your eyes, I'll be there.

[CaptHawkeye]

I got it. It's not bad but the naval battles are still horrible because the AI can't handle fleet management.

The game's battles very easily become one-sided. I don't think has as much to do with game balancing as much as this is pretty much how things just were during the era. The defender always holds a huge advantage thanks in no small part to the effectiveness of early rifles. Artillery is also an "i win" button, but I think the way the game handles artillery is unrealistic. I'm not sure how different the Parrott and Armstrong guns were from their previous kin but somehow I doubt indirect fire was that accurate during the era. Artillery in the game can routinely drop shells right into enemy formations with no line of sight. Their also isn't a huge selection of units this time around but then again, it's an expansion pack.

I will say this for attacking though, Japan's terrain doesn't favor ranged weapons very much. Next time around i'm going to try a campaign as an anti-moderization Shogunate clan and see if I can take advantage of Japan's hilly, broken terrain and forests to close with ranged units and initiate melees wherever I can.

[weemadando]

Yeah, that's my second play-through option.

I quickly found that once my forces started having battles out of Naval Support range, I needed to beef up my organic artillery as I'd been relying on that to deny flanks or bottle the enemy.

[CaptHawkeye]

Naval artillery was honestly unnecessary. Aside from how ridiculous it is to have these ships calling down modern-accurate indirect fire from miles away, it really just feels tacked on. Like I said before though, the TW control system really starts to break down at this stage in history. You're heading into Hearts of Iron territory at this point. On the other hand the Boshin war was pretty small by Napoleonic standards. Armies regularly numbering a few thousand rather than the near 100,000 man fuck-off hordes of the French Empire and Coalitions.

[weemadando]

Game mechanics are game mechanics.

The naval fire is pretty goddamn accurate and the ranges are long, but let's face it. This wasn't called the era of Gunboat Diplomacy without good reason. I think it just makes it more important to ensure you control the seas for something other than traderoutes.

And I'm about to build the national railway company. Be interesting to see how that unfolds in game.

My clan is an economic powerhouse (~15 provinces pulling in ~7500 per turn in spring) and I've let my Navy lag. I'm still running about with armed sloops for the most part, only having one major offensive fleet. So now there's a major shipbuilding effort to crank out copper plated frigates as fast as they'll come because my opponents are starting to bring in Corvettes and Frigates of their own.

[CaptHawkeye]

I'm gassing up the Satsuma to be Japan's doorway into the bleeding edge of the modern era. Fuck the Samurai, their glory days of Shogunate thuggery are over. It would be much easier to do all of this if the Tosa didn't attack one of my vassals and then decide that despite us being the two strongest pro-Imperial clans we're just going to have a weekend war over it. Since i'm in no mood for bullshit when i'm the middle of a war with the Edo clan i'm planning on conquering the island of Shtupidkoku and making an example to the other Imperial clans that I didn't get my "Emperor's Ambition" pin for nothing.

[weemadando]

Yeah, that's what just happened to me too.

I'm playing as Saga and the fucking neighbours (I think Satsuma) were the ones who decided to go rogue on my vassal.

So now I'm in an alliance with them still, but man, am I ever going to fucking give them some nasty payback.

[Ford Prefect]

The game's battles very easily become one-sided. I don't think has as much to do with game balancing as much as this is pretty much how things just were during the era. The defender always holds a huge advantage thanks in no small part to the effectiveness of early rifles. Artillery is also an "i win" button, but I think the way the game handles artillery is unrealistic.

Does weather have any effect? I mean maybe rain shouldn't totally fuck rifles up, but you know.

[Block]

The game's battles very easily become one-sided. I don't think has as much to do with game balancing as much as this is pretty much how things just were during the era. The defender always holds a huge advantage thanks in no small part to the effectiveness of early rifles. Artillery is also an "i win" button, but I think the way the game handles artillery is unrealistic.

Does weather have any effect? I mean maybe rain shouldn't totally fuck rifles up, but you know.

It creates misfires and affects reload speed, but also prevents fire arrows and the like.

[weemadando]

I wait for dry. But that's because I just don't do melee.

My last battle:
Fucking general turned traitor on me when I asked him to attack someone. He takes two units of Line Infantry with him. The British Marines (gift from the UK for helping in a dispute) embedded in teh army step up and take command.

So now there's the enemy army and my treacherous general facing me. It's a 3/4 map with 1/4 water. And you best believe I had a shedload of boats offshore (160s cooldown, 55m radius, 28 shells).

I hide all my units inside the forest near the shoreline. In the front line - 3 breechloading cannon batteries and 2 gatling batteries.

The battle starts and the enemy cav charge the forest immediately (can see my general and know I'm in there). I realise I didn't unlimber my gatlings.

They madly unlimber in what is almost a shot for shot remake of The Last Samurai. I go direct control on one and rock and roll as soon as I can and the cavalry breaks and begins to wheel away as they are literally just feet from the gatlings.

After that, it was all pretty much mopping up. They got creative with some hatamotos flanking, but 6 units of hidden line infantry in kneel fire put paid to that pretty quickly.

I've lost a lot of respect from the other clans after turning on my "ally" who had previously turned on my vassal. Fuck them. I'm about to unify Kyushu finally and then it will be time to BUILD THE RAILWAYS.

[weemadando]

My honour has dropped significantly. As I turned on an ally. HEY FUCK YOU BUDDIES. That "ally" attacked my vassal. And he was set up to try and backstab me too. So yeah, I let my vassal go. And turns out that my vassal had been sitting in his province doing nothing but building armies and sending tribute because as soon as that war kicked off he just fucking rolled the other clan. Until they could ship all their armies back from the other fronts to protect their home provinces. I stood back and waited until they were both well at each other's throats and then attacked them both in their weakened state.

[Erik von Nein]

It seems all vassals do is drag you into wars with other clans. Even in the vanilla Shogun 2 vassal were constantly attacking or being attacked by other clans. It got to the point where I refused any more vassal states just because it always led to war with another major clan.

[weemadando]

Yeah, they never seem to lend you support either. At least just send me a stream of conscripts or something.

[AniThyng]

I wait for dry. But that's because I just don't do melee.

My last battle:
Fucking general turned traitor on me when I asked him to attack someone. He takes two units of Line Infantry with him. The British Marines (gift from the UK for helping in a dispute) embedded in teh army step up and take command.

So now there's the enemy army and my treacherous general facing me. It's a 3/4 map with 1/4 water. And you best believe I had a shedload of boats offshore (160s cooldown, 55m radius, 28 shells).

I hide all my units inside the forest near the shoreline. In the front line - 3 breechloading cannon batteries and 2 gatling batteries.

The battle starts and the enemy cav charge the forest immediately (can see my general and know I'm in there). I realise I didn't unlimber my gatlings.

They madly unlimber in what is almost a shot for shot remake of The Last Samurai. I go direct control on one and rock and roll as soon as I can and the cavalry breaks and begins to wheel away as they are literally just feet from the gatlings.

After that, it was all pretty much mopping up. They got creative with some hatamotos flanking, but 6 units of hidden line infantry in kneel fire put paid to that pretty quickly.

I've lost a lot of respect from the other clans after turning on my "ally" who had previously turned on my vassal. Fuck them. I'm about to unify Kyushu finally and then it will be time to BUILD THE RAILWAYS.

I started a new game as Choshu and am just conquering my way along the railroad path. It's..OK i guess, it means my super upgraded troops from Bizen and Owari can make it to the railhead at Torima(or whatever, netx to edo) in 3 turns and not 20.

I'm already past the RD phase so my two allies Satsuma and Yonago are just fucking around doing token attacks and maybe taking a territory or two for every 5 i take.

Having lots of fun running my elite ishin isshi around hokkaido and northern japan stirring rebellions. I've used them also to secure my frontlines, as rebel territories don't attack on their own accord.

[weemadando]

I think that once I've cleaned house at home, I'll use some agents to make a path along the railway.

Incite revolt until successful and lo, my army is there to take the rebel city and restore order.

[weemadando]

Oh man, Roanoke class boats.

Oh. Oh dear.

So, yeah. There WAS an enemy fleet there that was triple my size that was in bombardment position near a soon to be battlefield.

And then there wasn't.

What was horrifying was that it pretty much took only one salvo per ship from my two Roanokes and the enemy were sinking/exploding. It was just a massacre.

[AniThyng]

Oh man, Roanoke class boats.

Oh. Oh dear.

So, yeah. There WAS an enemy fleet there that was triple my size that was in bombardment position near a soon to be battlefield.

And then there wasn't.

What was horrifying was that it pretty much took only one salvo per ship from my two Roanokes and the enemy were sinking/exploding. It was just a massacre.

Given what happened at Hampton roads, this seems quite realistic

The HMS Warrior is by far more powerful in game, but you can only build one and it's overkill. That you can build 2 Roanokes is much better. Just having them plus as many Kotetsu's as you can field, and if you need more, iron plated ships from the drydock pretty much guarantees naval superiority outright.

[weemadando]

I'm not certain, but I may be able to build MORE Roanokes. I'll certainly try.

[DarkArk]

The HMS Warrior is by far more powerful in game, but you can only build one and it's overkill.

Two Roanokes cost the same as a single Warrior, and they beat the Warrior quite handily with AP rounds. It's probably the best ship in the game when you factor in cost, maintenance, and it seems that being lower in the water causes more rounds to miss but that might just be me.

I'm really annoyed that CA seems to shy away from guns on the whole. Teppo should have dominated the battlefield by the end of the Sengoku campaign, but they didn't.

Now in the 1860s, you have rifles being outranged by bows. The game feels like Empire with smoothbore muskets, not the highly accurate rifles you start to see being developed in the period. Foreign marines are suitably deadly which is nice, but Samurai units are way easier to use than they should be.

[The Grim Squeaker]

Goddamn this game is buggy/crashy. Can't get past 8-15 urns without a terminal crash, and autosaves/quicksaves don't help. (So needed to start a new game 3 times by now).

[weemadando]

Seriously? It's been a dream for me. Fantastic frame rates and stability.

Two CTDs have been the total of my bad experience. Both at opportune times to stop onemoreturnitis.

[AniThyng]

Two Roanokes cost the same as a single Warrior, and they beat the Warrior quite handily with AP rounds. It's probably the best ship in the game when you factor in cost, maintenance, and it seems that being lower in the water causes more rounds to miss but that might just be me.

Ah, no idea bout that, never used AP rounds yet.

I'm really annoyed that CA seems to shy away from guns on the whole. Teppo should have dominated the battlefield by the end of the Sengoku campaign, but they didn't.

Now in the 1860s, you have rifles being outranged by bows. The game feels like Empire with smoothbore muskets, not the highly accurate rifles you start to see being developed in the period. Foreign marines are suitably deadly which is nice, but Samurai units are way easier to use than they should be.

I can't presume to speak for multiplayer, but in SP I've stopped even bothering backstopping my infantry with melee samurai. Levy Infantry is suitably crap (in indeed historically at Toba Fushimi they were forced to retreat by determined charge by samurai as they could not reload fast enough), but once you get Imperial Infantry (or even Kiheitai, I <3 Choshu now, elite infrantry from a barracks that uses breechloaders? YES PLEASE) in a proper supporting line formation unless the enemy ambushes or has heavy superiority, there is no chance in hell for a melee army.

Just for kicks I made an army entirely of traditional units and gave it to my one general who had the "dislike of the new" and "traditional" traits, and still retained a traditional bodyguard.

Sure...the Bows outranged the guns, but the kill rate is nowhere near as good, and they and my samurai hero if left to their own devices without micro took far heavier losses then comparable line infantry would have taken.

@Ando:

Have you tried revolver cavalry? They are ridiculously powerful - just charge them into any melee cavalry and they utterly slaughter them with two back to back volleys Carbine cav has range and sustained firepower advantage but they cannot match the sheer one-two punch of revolver cav. And when both carbine and revolver cav chase routers its awesome. They cut down those they can reach and shoot those they can't in the back.

I was skeptical of the modern generals bodyguard too, but they have the same attributes and can be deadly.

[AniThyng]

I'm pretty dissapointed that in the campaign when RD happens and the Emperor makes you his vanguard, all your on strategic map units switch to using the Imperial Banner, but in the battles you still use the normal clan colours. It would have been nice to at least just give the general unit the imperial banner

On a side note, this whole game inspired me to read up on the era and also reread Kenshin manga (aka samurai x). I can't speak for the TV anime, but the manga and the OVAs actually are surprisingly historically accurate. (and gave a reasonable explanation for needing kenshin to handle shishio: "why don't you just use the ARMY?" "we CANT. it's mere months after the satsuma rebellion - we mobilize the army again, what would the WESTERN POWERS think?")