What's An Ouya?

[General Zod]

Mh, that does not have to be done intentionally. I bet that if they don't, then someone will come out with hacked ROMs like the ones to hack proprietary gaming consoles into playing pirated games.

And if their firmware is less-than-military-grade, it will get hacked into allowing linux in. Somehting with these stats is extremely juicy:

Tegra3 quad-core processor
1GB RAM
8GB of internal flash storage
HDMI connection to the TV, with support for up to 1080p HD
WiFi 802.11 b/g/n
Bluetooth LE 4.0
USB 2.0 (one)
Wireless controller with standard controls (two analog sticks, d-pad, eight action buttons, a system button), a touchpad
Android 4.0

So it's a cell-phone disguised as a gaming console?

[Executor32]

Pretty much, its specs are near-identical to the Nexus 7.

[Questor]

How are those stats, in any way juicy?

Or am I just used to look at computer stats?

[Stark]

It depends if you think of it as a high-end mobile platform that can't move, or a games console.

I mean, I personally can't wait to play Canabalt on my TV.

[Questor]

I'm pretty sure I can bring that to it's knees with a couple console applications. And I can't even cheat by building in memory leaks the way I could on a real console/computer.

Android's what limits it as a console. Console game designers need to get low level, and Java (Sorry Oracle, but let's call a spade a spade) is not low level. I remember reading about devs spending weeks eking out every last ounce of performance they could out of the consoles (late PS1 days, I think the relevant studio was Square).

[someone_else]

How are those stats, in any way juicy?

It is high-end ARM hardware. Not gonna beat playstations but easily pisses on Wii. video showcasing games on Tegra 3 (there are some good-looking shooters as well).
For 100$ i'd call it juicy. If it will be so hack-friendly to allow a linux OS instead of Android (or even better dual-boot) it's going to be pretty awesome (NVIDIA seems to be pretty linux-friendly, and Tegra 3 can run already linux in tablets). They say it is hack friendly, but not to what extent.

And the first 30,000 units they move don't actually make them any money.

Why? Startup costs?

Besides, the game developers of Hawken seem to have noticed the Ouya. Early to say if they will really do stuff, but they seem to approve.

[someone_else]

For those that are without a clue like me, I've found an article where they talk to someone that isn't a fatty nerd and actually works in the gaming industry.
Ouya faces challenges on its way to transforming the console industry

Seven months ago, Boxer8 started seeking funds for a lightweight, open, Android-powered gaming console it called Ouya. On Monday, they turned to Kickstarter to raise further funds, believing it’d take the duration of the campaign to raise $950,000.

It took eight hours.

As of Friday morning at 7:30 — four days into the campaign — Ouya's Kickstarter campaign had 34,320 backers, who’d pledged at total of $4,337.633, four and a half times beyond the original goal. "We were just hoping to make our goal of $950k in 29 days," CEO of Boxer8 Julie Uhrman told Polygon. "To hit it in one was mind-blowing."

The overwhelming majority of those who’ve pledged to the campaign have done far more than simply donate to see the project through. Pledges of $95 or more guarantee a console. Of the total backers, only 1,968 — a paltry 5 percent — have pledged below that threshold. 95 percent of backers have pledged enough to own the console. Ouya’s Kickstarter campaign isn’t a fundraiser. It’s a pre-order.

"95 percent of backers have pledged enough to own the console."

Ouya’s meteoric rise from obscurity to millions of dollars and tens of thousands of backers in the course of a few days is proof of that public interest. Whether it speaks directly to Ouya’s offerings or the desire for a new console in this extra-long generation is a harder question to answer. Reactions from developers and industry insiders span a continuum from genuine excitement to outright dismissal and highlight challenges for a nascent console that’s set to ship in March 2013 — a mere eight months from now — but is still being designed.
Attraction then disruption

Boxer8 touts Ouya as a console designed for gamers and developers alike. Its plan is to disrupt the longstanding console industry and attract players and developers by lowering the barrier to entry with a combination of price, capable hardware, and openness.

Though the Kickstarter page claims that all games released on Ouya will be free-to-play, that's a bit of a misnomer. Ouya's requirement for publication is that games will be free to try.

"I think it could be great for customers, as long as it doesn't become a freemium fest," said Gerry Sakkas, CEO of PlaySide Games, developers of the forthcoming Catch the Ark for iOS. "Freemium games don't really work on console due to the fact that you are not there 24/7. Thats why they work so well on mobile and Facebook, because consumers spend most of their time on both.

"It's all going to come down to whether developers feel like it's worth developing for. If it is, then no obstacles will matter."

"The console market is pushing developers away," Ouya’s Kickstarter page claims. "We’ve seen a brain drain: some of the best, most creative gamemakers are focused on mobile and social games because those platforms are more developer-friendly. And the ones who remain focused on console games can’t be as creative as they’d like."

"Openness is a huge factor," Chris Allen, CEO of Brass Monkey, told Polygon. Brass Monkey, which uses smartphones as controllers to play games through a web browser, provides a free SDK to its developers, just as Ouya plans to. It does so in part because the economy of the current business model requires developers to incur an upfront cost by purchasing a development kit for consoles. That crowds out some developers.

"Many game developers don’t have the upfront capital to purchases a dev kit for tens of thousands of dollars, especially with the risk that once the game is built there’s a chance that the console maker won’t even approve the game," Allen said. "Open platforms like ours make it so developers don’t need to worry about the risk. It’s free to use, and they don’t have stringent approval processes."

"Ouya has taken the App Store model from smartphones and applied it to consoles."

By eschewing traditional publishing channels, Ouya has taken the App Store model from smartphones and applied it to consoles, staking its claim on a choice that lies in between the existing consoles and mobile devices. "We think that the ability for any developer to publish your game on a TV is something that nobody else can offer, in the current iOS or Android ecosystems," Boxer8 CEO Uhrman told Polygon.

Sakkas, a former lead designer at EA’s Visceral Games who left the AAA publisher to form his own independent studio, has seen the market from both sides and understands the attraction of an open platform. "I think that companies making console games are spending $30 to 100 million anyway," he told Polygon. "Indie devs don’t have that money to even think of producing on console, hence the move to mobile, so I think that Ouya is more comparable to the mobile way of doing things."

Xander Davis, founder and CEO of Astrogun Games, sees promise and plans to develop the company's first game as a free-to-play title targeted for the Ouya's launch. "Now I can design games with deep story and long-term play sessions in mind without constantly worrying if someone is playing through an epic plot point while standing in line at the grocery," Davis told Polygon.

"Real core games and solid controls are back in business for every indie developer, and we have an accessible market platform to support our efforts," he said.

Powerful or underpowered?

While it’s easy to see how indie developers could benefit from the platform’s open architecture, others see complications with the hardware. Nvidia’s Tegra 3 quad-core processor will power Ouya, but that’s power in a relative sense. It’ll offer 1080p output, for example, but the Tegra 3 is still a mobile processor and relatively weak compared to its console brethren.

Kevin Dent, CEO of Tiswaz Entertainment – a company that helps start-ups, publishers and investors in the gaming industry – is decidedly more pessimistic about the prospects of an open platform and its ability to sustain developers. At its core, Ouya is an Android platform, which isn't generally known for producing large revenue streams for developers.

"Ever since Android has come out, I’ve not seen a single developer that has said, ‘Wow! I’m making so much money on Android!’," he told Polygon. Dent is convinced that the prospect of wrapping a console around what he sees as a mobile device simply won't satisfy console gamers.

"Everyone wants to play the next shiny object, but they want the next shiny object to be powerful," Dent said. "This isn’t a thing where it’s hip to own a Prius. When you want a gaming machine, you want a Hummer, in terms of the environmental impact. You want the EPA coming to your house and saying you’re violating so many laws because you’re using so much power on that gaming rig. That’s what we do as gamers. We want power."

Where Dent sees a shortcoming, Astrogun’s Davis sees an opportunity. "The Ouya is essentially offering to the mainstream what the Wii originally did: a cheaper, more approachable console for the masses in the face of buying more expensive alternates, especially in a strained economy. The difference this time is that the games will be created by you, by your friends, by rockstar indie developers and maybe, later, conglomerate publishers."

Josh Tsui, President of Robomodo Games, developers most recently of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater HD, also believes that Ouya’s success at attracting developers — particularly AAA devs — will be intertwined with its hardware capabilities, which, though disclosed, still remain largely unknown in terms of their ability to deliver console-quality games.

"AAA is the Michael Bay of gaming, so it comes down to money and horsepower," Tsui said. "Money means a giant install base to make it worth it. Power is if it can keep up with other consoles in terms of everything people are used to from a AAA game. Even if it’s a port of a game might not be worth the time and money to bring over if the power is lackluster.

"With that said, I know many developers who make big games would love to get their games out to an open market and it really comes down to that app store."
Vaporware or hardware?

The hardware market has historically been driven by retail sales, but Ouya’s initial success is based online. In order to attract developers, Ouya needs a large install base, and the retail channel seems like an essential component to attaining that critical mass.

"This is a big issue in that a small company is trying to make hardware that needs to sell very well for developers to want to develop for it. Supply chain issues, returns, support, are all big big issues to hit on," Tsui said.

Dent simply doesn't think it's feasible. As he sees it, the demand is "for something shiny and new," rather than for the console itself, and he's worried that the knowledge gap between consumer excitement and his industry knowledge is going to lead to consumer disappointment.

Furthermore, Kickstarter does not issue refunds after a project is funded, Polygon recently reported.

"This entire thing frustrates me because it's taking advantage of the general public," he said.

"It’s not going to ship," Dent told Polygon. "It's just not going to ship. It just costs too much to develop this. $4 million is nothing. They’ve got to pay fabrication. They’ve got to pay designers. They’ve got to pay manufacturers. They’ve got to market it. It’s a business. $4 million is nothing."

Boxer8’s CEO told Polygon that the company has "been talking to major retailers and the response so far has been very positive." The company has also been in discussion with "a top-tier manufacturing firm" to produce the consoles, and they’ve spent much of the last few days "adjusting our plans in real time" as the Kickstarter project exploded.

Getting the Xbox 360 to market quickly led to production problems, failing consoles, and a decision to extend the warranty, which cost Microsoft billions of dollars. Uhrman is aware of the precedent and points to the design team behind Ouya, which also brought Jambox and One Laptop per Child to fruition.

"Of course we need to live up to our commitments," she said. "We have been working on this for some time, so we know what it takes to make this console."

[Stark]

Why? Startup costs?.

Because its a Kickstarter, not investment. Most of the rewards include a console, valued at $100. Much of the money they appear to have 'made' is simple pre-sales, and thus when they launch they won't receive any revenue from those sales. Making new products on a loss is pretty normal, but it's usually because you have real investors or cash reserves to see you through the first few years of non-profitability, and not that the money you raise from investors to actually MAKE the product is pre-orders. Needless to say everyone who 'hacks' their console won't be making em any money on their store.

And dude the Internet is full of even fatty nerds being fully aware of the problems this project will face. When places as retarded as Gamasutra can identify issues with a proposal, you're really in funny town. Developers or nerd totems 'pledging' 'support' is smoke and mirrors.

[Crazy_Vasey]

Android's what limits it as a console. Console game designers need to get low level, and Java (Sorry Oracle, but let's call a spade a spade) is not low level. I remember reading about devs spending weeks eking out every last ounce of performance they could out of the consoles (late PS1 days, I think the relevant studio was Square).

There's a native SDK for Android. I have no idea how good it is or isn't, but it exists. Developers won't be stuck writing to the Dalvik VM if they don't want to be.

[Sarevok]

Android NDK is hard to use. To point i think smaller devs will avoid writting games in C++.

[phongn]

Android NDK is hard to use. To point i think smaller devs will avoid writting games in C++.

Smaller devs will probably target iOS first, though, and not silly things like Ouya. At that point if you ever want to do cross-platform development, you might as well write in C++.

Android's what limits it as a console. Console game designers need to get low level, and Java (Sorry Oracle, but let's call a spade a spade) is not low level. I remember reading about devs spending weeks eking out every last ounce of performance they could out of the consoles (late PS1 days, I think the relevant studio was Square).

They did because the toolchain was immature and PS1 hardware (really, even PS2) was pretty anemic. You can do a lot more now with even mobile hardware.

[Havok]

"Developer Friendly"
"Openness"

Explain these buzz words to me in terms I can understand please.

[General Zod]

"Developer Friendly"
"Openness"

Explain these buzz words to me in terms I can understand please.

It means it's easy for nerds to pirate games and create emulators of dubious legality.

[Stark]

They are hilariously confused in their marketing.

Consoles are dead; buy our console.
We have a great store we profit from; console is HACAKABLE OUT OF THE BOX

When they say dev-friendly they just mean it'll be easy to push out tidal waves of shovelware.

[Sarevok]

Developer friendly here means that anyone who has can develop for Android can do so here. Working with xbox 360 requires complicated arcane knowledge and hardware. Android is very very developer friendly to the point you do not need a device to get started making basic apps and games.

[Questor]

RPGMaker 2000 was developer friendly, too.

That has precisely zero to do with the quality of products being produced.

What is the goal of the Ouya? Is it to create a console that gives Nerdpoints to indie devs that they have developed a console game, or is it to actually compete with and carry "traditional" console games?

I don't know exactly how much the "developer friendliness" of the console is going to help with getting the art done, or doing VO, or having a halfway decent story, or any of the other things that separate a mainstream game from an indie "concept" game. If you've got the money/skill to do it in Android, you can probably do it in XNA.

I really don't think Angry Birds is going to transition to the console well. EDIT: That's not quite true, I think Angry Birds does have potential on the console, but I don't think it can anchor one.

[Stark]

Dev 'friendliness' is less important than things like install base and profitability of sales.

And there's no reason why mobile games (ie 80% of the stuff they show) can't be ported to existing consoles. The only reason to buy one is the combination of 'cheap' and 'piracy', which isn't going to have developers beating down their door to port Halo 4 etc.

[Sarevok]

People who say developer friendlyness have no bearing on quality of products have no idea what they are talking about.
Easy to use technology = more time and money spend actually making games vs reinventing the wheel. Using Android which has already has a ready pool of large number of developers is much saner than developing a custom firmware that would somehow have to convince people to spend time and money learning.

[Stark]

Nobody said they should use a 'custom firmware'. People are just rightly dubious of the quality of Android shovelware. Given what's already available, that seems fair.

It's pretty obvious that lowering barriers to entry doesn't just let in the inspired artists, it lets in literally anyone who wants to clone an old arcade game for cash. Without actual for-real games (and not the AAA phone games), you may well ask how these guys expect to make any money from their store.

[Questor]

People who say developer friendlyness have no bearing on quality of products have no idea what they are talking about. Easy to use technology = more time and money spend actually making games vs reinventing the wheel.

Are you just too blinded by your own brilliance to understand what's going on, or do you really think that the platform making it easy to create crap that's been done a million times before, and usually better, makes it more possible to create quality AAA CONSOLE games?

Using Android which has already has a ready pool of large number of developers is much saner than developing a custom firmware that would somehow have to convince people to spend time and money learning.

What are you smoking? Do you really think that a bunch of 80's arcade clones can sustain a console to compete with the 360 and PS3? It's obviously not going to compete with the Wii or Wii U, the controller makes that clear. What can this console do that XNA or the PS3 indie community can't? Why on earth should I give it one of my HDMI ports and give these fools $100?

Nobody is ever going to care unless you've got an install base.

[Sarevok]

Nobody said they should use a 'custom firmware'. People are just rightly dubious of the quality of Android shovelware. Given what's already available, that seems fair.

What is wrong with Android as choice of operating system ? Given their budget it is either Android or some variant of linux. Android already has an excellent base of tools and people for making games. This software ecosystem is is an important part what makes or breaks a console or any other consumer entertainment device.

It's pretty obvious that lowering barriers to entry doesn't just let in the inspired artists, it lets in literally anyone who wants to clone an old arcade game for cash. Without actual for-real games (and not the AAA phone games), you may well ask howthesenguys expect to make any money from their store.

I think you are mistaking screening and promotion with the development process. One reason Apples appstore is higher quality than Android is that they are more active in highlighting and promoting good quality products. Shovelware exists in iOS too but it rarely attains as much visibility as it does in Google Play, In Googles app store they seem to rely more on automated algorithms than an actual human team of editors/reviewers to pick the good ones and highlight them.

Here as long as they put real effort on reviewing and promoting the best apps I don't see any problems.

[Questor]

Nobody said they should use a 'custom firmware'. People are just rightly dubious of the quality of Android shovelware. Given what's already available, that seems fair.

What is wrong with Android as choice of operating system ? Given their budget it is either Android or some variant of linux. Android already has an excellent base of tools and people for making games. This software ecosystem is is an important part what makes or breaks a console or any other consumer entertainment device.

Stark? Stark? Sarevok? Phong? Anyone?

I've been struck blind by this tremendous revelation! A console needs software to work as a product!

Where's this [quality]* software going to come from? Why should a developer spend time optimizing for a controller and a massive screen (totally different from a 4" screen with touch) if there's only going to be a couple hundred thousand potential customers? Why not spend the extra time/money to get on a bigger market if they want to be on consoles?

* you left that word out, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you actually understand that 1345 shitty games are not as good as 15 good ones.

It's pretty obvious that lowering barriers to entry doesn't just let in the inspired artists, it lets in literally anyone who wants to clone an old arcade game for cash. Without actual for-real games (and not the AAA phone games), you may well ask howthesenguys expect to make any money from their store.

I think you are mistaking screening and promotion with the development process. One reason Apples appstore is higher quality than Android is that they are more active in highlighting and promoting good quality products. Shovelware exists in iOS too but it rarely attains as much visibility as it does in Google Play, In Googles app store they seem to rely more on automated algorithms than an actual human team of editors/reviewers to pick the good ones and highlight them.

Here as long as they put real effort on reviewing and promoting the best apps I don't see any problems.

And how are they going to pay for that? Do these reviewers just work for free?

[Sarevok]

Are you just too blinded by your own brilliance to understand what's going on, or do you really think that the platform making it easy to create crap that's been done a million times before, and usually better, makes it more possible to create quality AAA CONSOLE games?

The number of products of dubious quality on Android is no more relevant here than Adobe Flash,Windows or even xbox.

In the videogame industry there is a strong emphasis on reuse and not reinventing the wheel. It is difficult for a new platform, especially a niche indie product like this, to attract developers if it requires them to relearn a whole new toolchain. This extends even into far more well financed projects. For example Sony has invested much money developing the PS3 into an excellent product and promoting it. However developing for the PS3 requires significant overhead and this has been reflected in the much fewer number of professionals familiar with that platform.

Android is now an excellent choice for any consumer device really. There is much documentation and base of skilled people with it making it much cheaper and faster to develop products powered by Android.

What are you smoking? Do you really think that a bunch of 80's arcade clones can sustain a console to compete with the 360 and PS3? It's obviously not going to compete with the Wii or Wii U, the controller makes that clear. What can this console do that XNA or the PS3 indie community can't? Why on earth should I give it one of my HDMI ports and give these fools $100?

I can't speak for their financial success but my impression is that is not their only goal here. They want to make a product that lets people play older games or indie games on TV. As the kickstarter shows there is much interest in this and it will be interesting to see where it goes.

[Stark]

I am in no way singling android out for shovelware, relative to iOS. It's the jump from 'these other markets with much larger install bases are full of shit software' to 'I don't see a problem with software quality on Ouya' that confuses me. This is doubly relevant because they outright encourage people to 'hack' their product, into a piracy and media box which won't make them any money!

[Sarevok]

Where's this [quality]* software going to come from? Why should a developer spend time optimizing for a controller and a massive screen (totally different from a 4" screen with touch) if there's only going to be a couple hundred thousand potential customers? Why not spend the extra time/money to get on a bigger market if they want to be on consoles?

The big companies already realizing the importance of Android as a gaming platform and are coming in force. Among indies ? It is THE platform after Windows.

And how are they going to pay for that? Do these reviewers just work for free?

Pretty much all digital distribution channels have a whole department dedicated to screening and reviewing new apps. Google Play is unique in that they tried to make the process more automated with the subsquent problems as result. But it's just Google Play. Amazons App store for example has more stringent requirements and will not allow you to publish until some requirements are met.