News from Apple...

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-24 08:19pm

Beowulf wrote:It's worthwhile to note that you can't get a Mac without MacOS, so every new version is really an upgrade...

For years you couldn't get a computer from a major VAR or OEM without having Windows included, that did not make each version an upgrade.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-06-24 09:07pm

phongn wrote:
Beowulf wrote:It's worthwhile to note that you can't get a Mac without MacOS, so every new version is really an upgrade...
For years you couldn't get a computer from a major VAR or OEM without having Windows included, that did not make each version an upgrade.

Imagine that, not being able to get a non-Windows computer from a major company, which is major because it appeals to the masses...

Of course it's unimportant now, unlike a Mac, which you could not, can not, and will not ever be able to get without MacOS.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-24 09:20pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:Imagine that, not being able to get a non-Windows computer from a major company, which is major because it appeals to the masses...

No, it's because Microsoft's contract scheme used to require it with major OEMs/VARs - not because they neccessarily wanted to make things optional.

Of course it's unimportant now, unlike a Mac, which you could not, can not, and will not ever be able to get without MacOS.

Today, no. Back in the days of the clones, you could indeed purchase one without MacOS installed.

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-06-24 09:39pm

phongn wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:Of course it's unimportant now, unlike a Mac, which you could not, can not, and will not ever be able to get without MacOS.
Today, no. Back in the days of the clones, you could indeed purchase one without MacOS installed.

But you cannot get a Mac that will run OSX that is not already running MacOS.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-24 11:02pm

Beowulf wrote:But you cannot get a Mac that will run OSX that is not already running MacOS.

As I earlier said, today that is true, unfortunately. You can get it bundled with YellowDog Linux, but not sans OS X.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2003-06-24 11:12pm

phongn wrote:
StarshipTitanic wrote:Imagine that, not being able to get a non-Windows computer from a major company, which is major because it appeals to the masses...
No, it's because Microsoft's contract scheme used to require it with major OEMs/VARs - not because they neccessarily wanted to make things optional.

Of course it's unimportant now, unlike a Mac, which you could not, can not, and will not ever be able to get without MacOS.
Today, no. Back in the days of the clones, you could indeed purchase one without MacOS installed.

Erm, Microsoft forced computer companies to carry their software or else? I'm confused...

What could you put on them?

Post by **Beowulf** » 2003-06-24 11:16pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
phongn wrote: Today, no. Back in the days of the clones, you could indeed purchase one without MacOS installed.
Erm, Microsoft forced computer companies to carry their software or else? I'm confused...

What could you put on them?

OS/2?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-24 11:50pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:Erm, Microsoft forced computer companies to carry their software or else? I'm confused...

Use Microsoft operating systems or pay a Lot Of Money for each license you sell, if at all. That would drive your costs up and make you noncompetitive. Microsoft was later forced to change this practise.

What could you put on them?

Linux (was getting decent towards the end of MS's policy), OS/2 (earlier), etc. Or heck, none at all - someone might want to transfer their old license over.

I might ask the same for a Mac as well - what else would you put on? Linux? BeOS?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-25 01:16am

phongn wrote:I might ask the same for a Mac as well - what else would you put on? Linux? BeOS?

NeXTStep 7 ... er, Mac OS X v10.3.

Shep, I'm done with you. Upgrade != Full Version. Period. End of fucking story. Go back to jerking off to fake Charlton Heston porn.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-25 03:34pm

phongn wrote:An upgrade, license-wise, is not a full install, and that's what matters here.

And we care why? any chance to get a $200 software package for only $99 is too good to pass up

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-25 03:38pm

Durandal wrote: Shep, I'm done with you. Upgrade != Full Version. Period. End of fucking story.

If it's really an upgrade, not a full version, why can I install a FULL COPY
of Windows 98 onto a freshly formatted computer with no data being read
from my Windows 95 CD except for the CD header for verification? Huh?

An upgrade implies that it's installing OVER an already installed system
when obviously, this isn't the case.

Go back to jerking off to fake Charlton Heston porn.

Oh, now we're onto ad homimem attacks, you dumbshit? Why am I not
surprised? Oh, Apple in your opinion Is Always Right, and Microsoft
Is Always Wrong and is the Spawn of Satan

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-25 03:49pm

MKSheppard wrote:An upgrade implies that it's installing OVER an already installed system
when obviously, this isn't the case.

No. An upgrade means that you had a previous license and you have been granted a discount for the new product. They allow you to use a CD for verification rather than force you to install it to save you a bit of time. (Useful, because I would not like to install NT 3.51 -> NT4 -> W2K -> WXP).

The distinction is by contract (the EULA) and is nontrivial.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-25 03:51pm

MKSheppard wrote:
phongn wrote:An upgrade, license-wise, is not a full install, and that's what matters here.
And we care why? any chance to get a $200 software package for only $99 is too good to pass up

I prefer to stay legal with my software licenses. The only exception at the moment is that I run XP Pro Corporate Edition, even though I have a license for XP Professional (OEM).

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-25 03:55pm

phongn wrote: I prefer to stay legal with my software licenses.

Hell, I probably have about 6+ different copies of M$ OSes floating around
my house, from two different versions of DOS 6.2 (the original and 6.22),
two different versions of Windows 3.1 (original and Windows for Networks),
Two copies of Windows 95, Two copies of Windows98, and one copy of Windows
2000...

being "100% legal" is for the megacorps...and even then I wonder how
many corps have exact duplicates of Windows 2K , 98, etc installed across
their entire network...

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-25 04:15pm

MKSheppard wrote:being "100% legal" is for the megacorps...and even then I wonder how
many corps have exact duplicates of Windows 2K , 98, etc installed across
their entire network...

Their licensing allows them to use single media (via Ghost or whatever) to install. When you're big the software companies try to accomodate you.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-06-26 01:33am

Shep, by your dumbshit reasoning, both OS X and Windows XP are the same price because you can download them both from warez servers.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-06-26 01:47am

I have to agree with Durandal and phong here. If you buy an upgrade at a cheaper price it's because you already spent money on an earlier version. It doesn't matter whether you install over the old version or not (it's a license upgrade).

The "net" price of the new software would be the price of the old at the time of purchase + the price of the upgrade (accounting for inflation or whatever). Hell, I haven't paid for any of the software in my PC but it doesn't mean it doesn't cost money.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-06-26 04:00pm

Hmmmmm..........No matter about the "Upgrade" hint hint, apple sells them also, I believe 10.2's upgrade was $19.95. If you qualified that is with in the first 3 months of its release. They do it every time a new OS is released.

If you have more than 1 computer for a small buisness or many computers in the family and want to stay legal, Microsofts prices and Licensing just is not reasonable. you can install OS X for $199 on 5 computers.

Crayz9000 · Post by **Crayz9000** » 2003-06-26 04:30pm

Can we get the upgrade/install argument split into another thread? This thread is supposed to be about Apple's G5, not Windows licenses.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-26 04:38pm

Durandal wrote:Shep, by your dumbshit reasoning, both OS X and Windows XP are the same price because you can download them both from warez servers.

You're the dumbshit, still refusing to see that you can save over $150 dollars
if you know how to cheat Microsoft out of the full version of Winblows.

Geez, if there's anything I hate more than fundies, it's MAC fundies, who fall
upon each other to worship the stuff that dribbles out of Steve Job's cock.

For fucks sake, when is your brilliant Stevie Jobs going to make all
macs ship with a TWO button mouse, rather than those retarded
one button mouses? For the amount of money you spend to
get comparable perfomance with a PC, I'd expect to see at least a
two button mouse rather than a single button art deco mouse that
looks cool, but is totally nonfunctional...

But that's alright. Go ahead and spend a shitload more on
an art deco computer that is seriously lacking in many areas
such as fucking CDROM eject buttons on the outside of
the case, as long as you get something by the brilliant and
angelic Stevie Jobs, rather than something from the spawn of
Satan itself, Microsuck..

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-06-26 04:52pm

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-06-26 05:00pm

Wintrolls. *sighs*. Go hang out with your ilk at comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy, Shep.

Hey, let's call the BSA to go after Shep

.
Oh crap, he lives across the potomac *runs and hides*

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-26 05:03pm

Pu-239 wrote:Wintrolls. *sighs*. Go hang out with your ilk at comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy, Shep.

Hey smartypants, Apple is just as monopolistic and greedy as Microsoft,
they just have a better PR department. Remember the Mac Clone thing
from 1994 or thereabouts? It seems that the clone makers were
actually making Macs that were *GASP* competitively priced with
equivalent WinBlows PCs, and therefore cutting into Apple's profits
(which comes mostly from fleecing idiots who think that having that
little apple logo makes their computer perform 10 times better),
so they cut off the Clone licenses.

Greedy Bastards...I have no real love for either...

Hell, remember the early Direct X debacle involving Microsoft's own
evangelist spouting off on how Direct X was 100 times better than OpenGL?

Or Apple's Cube? They spent a shitload of money on really, a worthless
piece of shit that couldn't be easily upgraded...hell most of the R&D went
into actually making the right kind of transparent plastic..

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-06-26 05:06pm

MKSheppard wrote:You're the dumbshit, still refusing to see that you can save over $150 dollarsif you know how to cheat Microsoft out of the full version of Winblows.

The upgrade for Windows XP Professional is still $200, Shep. A bit more expensive than $129, no?

Geez, if there's anything I hate more than fundies, it's MAC fundies, who fall upon each other to worship the stuff that dribbles out of Steve Job's cock.

Durandal is actually quite critical of many of Apple's decisions; he's hardly a fundie. (Just usually not on this board).

For fucks sake, when is your brilliant Stevie Jobs going to make all
macs ship with a TWO button mouse, rather than those retarded
one button mouses? For the amount of money you spend to
get comparable perfomance with a PC, I'd expect to see at least a
two button mouse rather than a single button art deco mouse that
looks cool, but is totally nonfunctional...

It works fine, and the context menu is easily accessable via command-click. It's more a tool to acclimate new computer users (having taught a good number of newbies, they tend to get confused at first).

But that's alright. Go ahead and spend a shitload more on
an art deco computer that is seriously lacking in many areas
such as fucking CDROM eject buttons on the outside of
the case, as long as you get something by the brilliant and
angelic Stevie Jobs, rather than something from the spawn of
Satan itself, Microsuck..

Or instead, I can press the eject key and do the same thing?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-06-26 05:10pm

phongn wrote: Or instead, I can press the eject key and do the same thing?

A software key? Oh what if the OS crashes? And don't tell me OS X is
uncrasheable - I've crashed Linux before