Halo 2 is finished

[Alyeska]

November 9th + 2 more years. Nothing to rejoice about.

Alyeska, are you going to bitch in every thread about the Xbox Halo 2 with your lament about there being no PC version? We know you think it is unfair; you don't need to bring it up in EVERY SINGLE THREAD ABOUT HALO.

Actualy I don't. I am not bitching about Halo 2 for the X-Box. I am commenting that for us PC fans we will have to wait just a tad longer for the game. I look forward for its release, but until I hear that its comming on PC I don't particularly care that its comming on X-Box.

Microsoft is alienating customers they way they are doing this. They ought to follow IDs or Take Twos lead and release the alternate version 3-9 months after the primary version. A needlessly long wait does not make them more money, they loose it. People like me are not going to buy a console for the sole purpose of playing one game, especialy when it comes to FPS games.

And I know its going to be a needlessly long wait because so far Bungie has said there are zero plans to put Halo 2 on the PC. That means no work has been done yet.

As to the console vs PC debate. The console is easier to use and cheaper. Its more of a plug and play type system. That said the PC typicaly sports better graphics and the ability to play any game from the console as well or better on the PC. However your stock PC can not do this.

Stock PC vs Console

RPG: Tie. Console and PC both have adequate control, some RPGs favor one system or the other, but for the most part they are equal

Simulations: Console. The console wins this one. It has easier controls to run almost any simulation. PC players have to buy joysticks and steering wheels. When a PC player does this they typicaly have greater control simply because of more button options, but this costs money

FPS: PC. PC has control in the FPS enviroment. Graphics are typicaly better (but not always) and game play options are typicaly more diverse. Console does have one marked advantage. Splitscreen instant play.

RTS: PC. Mouse reigns supreme in any RTS. Console control is clunky and precise control over units is more difficult.

Sports: Console. Mouse controls in such games are typicaly very poor and the keyboard layout does not make playing the game much better. Console controllers are much better.

Fighting games: Console. A consoles controller is much more well suited for these types of games.

A PC can equal or match the console in almost any area but that requires even more money spent buying controllers, joysticks, and steering wheels.

Now this isn't console bashing, its a straight up comparison of the two systems.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Name one realistic flight simulator on a console.

[Rogue 9]

Name one realistic flight simulator on a console.

I can't, but I attribute it to the lack of popularity that the flight sim genre suffers from. There's no real reason why a console's controls couldn't handle a realistic flight sim, but they just aren't made because people don't even buy them for PC anymore.

[Alyeska]

Name one realistic flight simulator on a console.

A console might not have realistic flight sims, but they handle simulations better then your stock PC.

[Pu-239]

Microsoft is alienating customers they way they are doing this. They ought to follow IDs or Take Twos lead and release the alternate version 3-9 months after the primary version. A needlessly long wait does not make them more money, they loose it. People like me are not going to buy a console for the sole purpose of playing one game, especialy when it comes to FPS games.

Won't it take quite awhile to port Doom3 to the Xbox due to the need to write an OpenGL->DirectX wrapper?

[The Kernel]

Actualy I don't. I am not bitching about Halo 2 for the X-Box. I am commenting that for us PC fans we will have to wait just a tad longer for the game. I look forward for its release, but until I hear that its comming on PC I don't particularly care that its comming on X-Box.

Yes, we got that the first dozen times you said it in previous threads.

Microsoft is alienating customers they way they are doing this. They ought to follow IDs or Take Twos lead and release the alternate version 3-9 months after the primary version. A needlessly long wait does not make them more money, they loose it. People like me are not going to buy a console for the sole purpose of playing one game, especialy when it comes to FPS games.

Putting a PC version at 3-9 months off of the Xbox version is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. It may be nice for gamers, but there is no way in hell any of the people crunching numbers at Microsoft would authorize such a decision because it makes no business sense. You do not canabalize sales of your flagship title when it is there to sell consoles. Get it? Halo sells Xboxs.

Bitch all you want but no one at Microsoft is going to make the decision to move Halo to the PC that early. Hell, you are lucky to get it AT ALL considering that none of Nintendo's or Sony's flagship titles see PC release (with only a couple of exceptionally rare third-party exceptions).

And I know its going to be a needlessly long wait because so far Bungie has said there are zero plans to put Halo 2 on the PC. That means no work has been done yet.

Not unexpected. The Microsoft Xbox division makes the decision of when to port Halo, not Bungie. Bungie makes a bundle no matter what, they don't give a shit which platform they are on. Microsoft does.

[Alyeska]

Microsoft is alienating customers they way they are doing this. They ought to follow IDs or Take Twos lead and release the alternate version 3-9 months after the primary version. A needlessly long wait does not make them more money, they loose it. People like me are not going to buy a console for the sole purpose of playing one game, especialy when it comes to FPS games.

Won't it take quite awhile to port Doom3 to the Xbox due to the need to write an OpenGL->DirectX wrapper?

Doom 3 for the X-Box is slated for a December release. Doom 3 was made in twin.

[Alyeska]

Yes, we got that the first dozen times you said it in previous threads.

And I get how eager the X-Box fans were in the first dozen times it was said in previous threads. Interesting how we like to repeat ourselves.

Putting a PC version at 3-9 months off of the Xbox version is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. It may be nice for gamers, but there is no way in hell any of the people crunching numbers at Microsoft would authorize such a decision because it makes no business sense. You do not canabalize sales of your flagship title when it is there to sell consoles. Get it? Halo sells Xboxs.

For all intents and purposes everyone who wants an X-Box has bought an X-Box. Furthermore anyone remotely interested in buying an X-Box just for Halo 2 will do so very shortly after the release of Halo 2. The release of Halo 2 will not inspire any significant sales of the X-Box.

Bitch all you want but no one at Microsoft is going to make the decision to move Halo to the PC that early. Hell, you are lucky to get it AT ALL considering that none of Nintendo's or Sony's flagship titles see PC release (with only a couple of exceptionally rare third-party exceptions).

I should feel lucky for getting to play Halo 3 years late? I find your logic very interesting.

Not unexpected. The Microsoft Xbox division makes the decision of when to port Halo, not Bungie. Bungie makes a bundle no matter what, they don't give a shit which platform they are on. Microsoft does.

And Microsoft needlessly alienates customers and looses money this way.

[The Kernel]

For all intents and purposes everyone who wants an X-Box has bought an X-Box. Furthermore anyone remotely interested in buying an X-Box just for Halo 2 will do so very shortly after the release of Halo 2. The release of Halo 2 will not inspire any significant sales of the X-Box.

Bullshit and bullshit. Halo consistently has been a top seller since its release three years ago. The fact that Microsoft left it as a full priced game until recently was absolutely unprecedented not to mention that their Xbox/Halo bundle introduced recenty was an extremely hot seller. Halo 2 is going to move Xbox's well beyond a 3-9 month period.

I should feel lucky for getting to play Halo 3 years late? I find your logic very interesting.

You should feel lucky to play Halo/Halo 2 at all. Microsoft is under no obligation to offer a port.

And Microsoft needlessly alienates customers and looses money this way.

Bullshit, aside from a few disgruntled hardcore PC users, Halo players have been extremely satisfied with the Xbox version. And in case you didn't realize this, Microsoft's objective with Halo/Halo 2 (in fact their objective with the entire Xbox project) is not to make money at all. Xbox was basically a five year marketing campaign to build a fan base of Xbox users while Microsoft put together a console business. Their next-generation console will be the first real attempt at turning a profit.

[Alyeska]

Bullshit and bullshit. Halo consistently has been a top seller since its release three years ago. The fact that Microsoft left it as a full priced game until recently was absolutely unprecedented not to mention that their Xbox/Halo bundle introduced recenty was an extremely hot seller. Halo 2 is going to move Xbox's well beyond a 3-9 month period.

And yet X-Box Console sales have for the most part pleatued. They are no longer climbing at incredible rates and Halo 2 is not expected to make a significant jump in sales.

You should feel lucky to play Halo/Halo 2 at all. Microsoft is under no obligation to offer a port.

I do not feel lucky for playing a game 3 years late. Furthermore Halo 2 isn't even confirmed.

You should feel lucky that Microsoft decided to buy out Bungie for the X-Box. Microsoft was under no obligation to do that.

Same line of reasoning. And its total bullshit.

Bullshit, aside from a few disgruntled hardcore PC users, Halo players have been extremely satisfied with the Xbox version. And in case you didn't realize this, Microsoft's objective with Halo/Halo 2 (in fact their objective with the entire Xbox project) is not to make money at all. Xbox was basically a five year marketing campaign to build a fan base of Xbox users while Microsoft put together a console business. Their next-generation console will be the first real attempt at turning a profit.

The funny thing is if Halo had been released on PC just 12 months sooner then it had originaly they could have made significantly more profits. Thing is Halo was just old enough that many X-Box fans never bothered with getting it for the PC. I know a shitload of people who have Halo on the X-Box but because of how late Halo was released on the PC they just never bothered buying the second copy.

Funny thing that. When you release a game soon enough on another system a fair number of people are going to be willing to buy for both systems.

[Pu-239]

Why hasn't someone made an XBox emulator yet?

[Alyeska]

Why hasn't someone made an XBox emulator yet?

Those are very difficult. The best anyone has accomplished is a specific game emulator that can run on a handful of PC configurations.

(sigh)

If Microsoft would release a working mouse and keyboard for the X-Box I would buy it so I could play Halo 2.

[Pu-239]

Why hasn't someone made an XBox emulator yet? What makes it more difficult than, say the PS1 emulator, given that it's x86->x86?

[The Kernel]

And yet X-Box Console sales have for the most part pleatued. They are no longer climbing at incredible rates and Halo 2 is not expected to make a significant jump in sales.

I'm impressed that you have access to internal Microsoft sales projections about the expected effect on Xbox sales that Halo 2 will add. Or you could just be totally bullshitting. I wonder which it is?

Even if Halo 2 had zero effect on Xbox sales, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Halo 2 being an exclusive title is important towards making the Xbox a platform with system exclusives. By releasing Halo 2 for the PC almost immediately after the Xbox version, they are in effect dilluting the strength of the Xbox brand. These are concepts very well known in the console business, it's a shame that you are incapable of understanding them.

I do not feel lucky for playing a game 3 years late. Furthermore Halo 2 isn't even confirmed.

Too bad then, but I won't be shedding any tears for you just as I won't be shedding any tears for the people who bitch that Zelda should be made for the PC.

You should feel lucky that Microsoft decided to buy out Bungie for the X-Box. Microsoft was under no obligation to do that.

Same line of reasoning. And its total bullshit.

I DO feel lucky that Microsoft bought out Bungie, it has made an amazing developer into one that is considered the leader in the console world. They now have the funding and creative freedom to make the games THEY want to make which is a great thing for any developer and exceedingly rare in this industry.

In any case, neither Microsoft nor Bungie owe you shit. The buyout of Bungie wasn't Microsoft's sole doing, they decided to make the leap into the console world. The fact that you do not support that decision is too fucking bad; Bungie is under zero obligation to you.

The funny thing is if Halo had been released on PC just 12 months sooner then it had originaly they could have made significantly more profits. Thing is Halo was just old enough that many X-Box fans never bothered with getting it for the PC. I know a shitload of people who have Halo on the X-Box but because of how late Halo was released on the PC they just never bothered buying the second copy.

Appeal to personal experience. Microsoft's sales numbers contradict your personal anecdotes.

Funny thing that. When you release a game soon enough on another system a fair number of people are going to be willing to buy for both systems.

Show me sales numbers to back it up and you may have a point, albeit an extremely weak one since you still have the problem of brand dillution with less exclusive flagship titles. Until you can come up with some, I suggest you peddle your logical fallacies elsewhere.

[Alyeska]

I'm impressed that you have access to internal Microsoft sales projections about the expected effect on Xbox sales that Halo 2 will add. Or you could just be totally bullshitting. I wonder which it is?

I've seen the figures. Console sales for all three major companies tend to start leveling off about two years after release. Most console sales after that point are from people who are just entering the market or replacing worn out systems. You typicaly capture the vast majority of your market in the very begining. Its simple economics really.

Even if Halo 2 had zero effect on Xbox sales, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. Halo 2 being an exclusive title is important towards making the Xbox a platform with system exclusives. By releasing Halo 2 for the PC almost immediately after the Xbox version, they are in effect dilluting the strength of the Xbox brand. These are concepts very well known in the console business, it's a shame that you are incapable of understanding them.

Your mixing things up here. In the console wars an exclussive stays on one console but can still go PC. The GTA series on PS2 is a prime example. Play Station suffered no real losses to the release of GTA on the PC. Whats really interesting is PS2 might suffer some losses because GTA sales on the PC do not go to Sony, but Halo sales to the PC still net money to Microsoft. Releasing a game up to 12 months later on the PC is not very soon and it tends to seperate the buyers in the two markets. Popular titles are typicaly bought up within the first month, though trickle sales still occur. Waiting 12 months secures the primary sales on one system while maximizing sales on another. Its a tricky thing really. Release too soon and risk loss of sales on one system, release too late and risk loss of sales on the other system because the game has gotten too old.

I DO feel lucky that Microsoft bought out Bungie, it has made an amazing developer into one that is considered the leader in the console world. They now have the funding and creative freedom to make the games THEY want to make which is a great thing for any developer and exceedingly rare in this industry.

Microsoft did little to really help Bungie. Prior to Microsoft buying out Bungie, Bungie had the Marathon series and Myth series going for them. For the PC and Mac players we have little to be thankful for because we have lost very good game series and been forced to wait longer for games already in the pipe. Bungie is not seen as a leader in the console world. At best they are seen as the leader in console shooters. Thats a partial honor. Bungie used to make more and recieve incredible acclaim for all their games. Give Myth or Marathon a try some time.

In any case, neither Microsoft nor Bungie owe you shit. The buyout of Bungie wasn't Microsoft's sole doing, they decided to make the leap into the console world. The fact that you do not support that decision is too fucking bad; Bungie is under zero obligation to you.

Was never under the impression that they were. However they have lost my business in several areas because they are no longer producing titles that I was a loyal customer for. Thats a mutual loss.

Appeal to personal experience. Microsoft's sales numbers contradict your personal anecdotes.

Show me sales numbers to back it up and you may have a point, albeit an extremely weak one since you still have the problem of brand dillution with less exclusive flagship titles. Until you can come up with some, I suggest you peddle your logical fallacies elsewhere.

If you look at X-Box sales figures you will see that the console sales have already started leveling off. If people weren't going to buy the X-Box to get Halo, why would they suddenly buy it for Halo 2? At this point the X-Box is old enough that any specific game won't increase console sales. Rather they need good games to keep the system running so they can produce future new titles to make more money. Strictly speaking this isn't tied in with PC game sales and they could get away with releasing on PC within 12 months.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

If you look at X-Box sales figures you will see that the console sales have already started leveling off. If people weren't going to buy the X-Box to get Halo, why would they suddenly buy it for Halo 2?

The only reason I bought an X-box in May was because I knew Halo II would be coming out this year.

[Alyeska]

If you look at X-Box sales figures you will see that the console sales have already started leveling off. If people weren't going to buy the X-Box to get Halo, why would they suddenly buy it for Halo 2?

The only reason I bought an X-box in May was because I knew Halo II would be coming out this year.

And why didn't you buy the X-Box for Halo?

[Alyeska]

Since it appears neither one of us is really going to agree with the other on certain parts of the topic, lets just drop it.

Now, has anyone heard of a mouse and keyboard working with the X-Box and being able to play Halo?

[Cal Wright]

I don't recall seeing anything remotely close for the XBox. Which in itself is surprising and unsurprising. Case in point, I was talking with a my friends last night over Unreal, and how an article prior to launch mentioned how they wanted nothing to do with PC, so there would be no keyboard/mouse support in that particular game. There's shitloads of aftermarket companies out there, so I won't say it's possible, but I haven't seen a keyboard and mouse for the XBox lately. Now the PS2 their in abundance. However, that's supported by the USB presence. I have the keyboard/mouse for the Dreamcast, but since you have to make it dedicated to the console in question itself, it obviously wasn't a popular choice.

[BlkbrryTheGreat]

If you look at X-Box sales figures you will see that the console sales have already started leveling off. If people weren't going to buy the X-Box to get Halo, why would they suddenly buy it for Halo 2?

The only reason I bought an X-box in May was because I knew Halo II would be coming out this year.

And why didn't you buy the X-Box for Halo?

I beat it on my brother-in-law's machine.

[Stark]

Dya think they'll spend the two years actually porting, or jerking off like they apparently did with the terrible job on Halo?

I think it's stupid to wait years, but since Halo2 doesn't look that great NOW, in two years it'll be hilarious. Thief 3 was a simultaneous development, and the PC version was crippled because of it. A pox on poor console hardware.

[DPDarkPrimus]

Ah, SDnet... even during flamefests such as these, I can take solace in the fact that there is worse out there... I just got done doing a point-by-point rebuttal of an asshat who insisted there was a "90% chance of HALO 2 coming out on PC within a couple months of release"... "just like HALO".

[Durandal]

Microsoft is alienating customers they way they are doing this. They ought to follow IDs or Take Twos lead and release the alternate version 3-9 months after the primary version. A needlessly long wait does not make them more money, they loose it. People like me are not going to buy a console for the sole purpose of playing one game, especialy when it comes to FPS games.

Won't it take quite awhile to port Doom3 to the Xbox due to the need to write an OpenGL->DirectX wrapper?

I believe that Carmack has written his own OpenGL implementation for the Xbox. From what I've read, the Mac OS X and Linux versions of Doom 3 are taking precedence over the Xbox version, though.

[The Kernel]

I've seen the figures. Console sales for all three major companies tend to start leveling off about two years after release. Most console sales after that point are from people who are just entering the market or replacing worn out systems. You typicaly capture the vast majority of your market in the very begining. Its simple economics really.

Did you hear what I said about product dillution? It isn't about current Xbox sales (although they should be relatively brisk) it's about future Xbox brand products. No one is going to buy an Xbox 2 to play Halo 3 if Microsoft makes it a habit of releasing their titles to the PC almost immediately. Exclusivness is important, every console maker understands this.

Your mixing things up here. In the console wars an exclussive stays on one console but can still go PC. The GTA series on PS2 is a prime example. Play Station suffered no real losses to the release of GTA on the PC. Whats really interesting is PS2 might suffer some losses because GTA sales on the PC do not go to Sony, but Halo sales to the PC still net money to Microsoft. Releasing a game up to 12 months later on the PC is not very soon and it tends to seperate the buyers in the two markets. Popular titles are typicaly bought up within the first month, though trickle sales still occur. Waiting 12 months secures the primary sales on one system while maximizing sales on another. Its a tricky thing really. Release too soon and risk loss of sales on one system, release too late and risk loss of sales on the other system because the game has gotten too old.

The problem being that the Xbox pulled a lot of their userbase from the casual PC gamer crowd. They picked a perfect time too; just as PC gaming was getting harder and harder to do (thanks to less powerful GPU's being sold by OEM's in otherwise high end PC's) and they provided casual gamers with a good solution for their gaming fix. Even better, they came along with a highly anticipated PC game to intice them further. So while the PS2 might not have many roots with PC gamers, the Xbox was born from that market (especially since Microsoft's games division has historically been PC-only).

Microsoft did little to really help Bungie. Prior to Microsoft buying out Bungie, Bungie had the Marathon series and Myth series going for them. For the PC and Mac players we have little to be thankful for because we have lost very good game series and been forced to wait longer for games already in the pipe. Bungie is not seen as a leader in the console world. At best they are seen as the leader in console shooters. Thats a partial honor. Bungie used to make more and recieve incredible acclaim for all their games. Give Myth or Marathon a try some time.

One flopped game would have ruined Bungie. This is true for almost any independent developer, and despite a group of dedicated fans, Bungie was not id Software prior to Halo.

Was never under the impression that they were. However they have lost my business in several areas because they are no longer producing titles that I was a loyal customer for. Thats a mutual loss.

They made a business decision. Many companies do this every day knowing they will alienate some of their customers. This is simply a fact of life.

If you look at X-Box sales figures you will see that the console sales have already started leveling off.

To a certain extent, although things like the Halo bundle and some big AAA titles (Fable, Ninja Gaiden) have caused boosts in Xbox sales. The Xbox hasn't reached near saturation level yet; that is the PS2 you are thinking of (which has ~80 million units on the market; far more than the number of Xboxs)

If people weren't going to buy the X-Box to get Halo, why would they suddenly buy it for Halo 2?

Lower price of the Xbox consoles, and a hot new game to spur interest. Plus Halo 2 has the potential to be far superior to Halo due to honing of the formula and more time to work on level design.

At this point the X-Box is old enough that any specific game won't increase console sales. Rather they need good games to keep the system running so they can produce future new titles to make more money. Strictly speaking this isn't tied in with PC game sales and they could get away with releasing on PC within 12 months.

The more people that buy it on the PC, the less there are to buy it on the Xbox potentially. So I expect Microsoft to leave it on the Xbox alone for some time. Eventually there will probably be a port and when it does it will sell well regardless so Micrsoft doesn't really have a reason to care about PC sales now do they?

[SPOOFE]

Christ, Alyeska, grow the fuck up finally, wouldja?