Steam and Steel: AltHist. Victorian STGOD

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-09-11 05:20pm

Woo! Opium!

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-11 05:51pm

Are there mechanisms in place, or will there be, to trade resources for technological improvements? If someone develops better armor technique or radio, can I trade to get that?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2006-09-11 06:06pm

Are offers of rebate for shipping passages through bottlenecks possible or favourite harbour charges?

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-09-11 06:26pm

Raesene wrote:
Question:
is flight (with heavier or lighter than air vehicles) already so common that we should mount some inprovised AAW-guns ?

Both are very primitive- slow, moving at only a few miles per hour, and unreliable. Their usage as scouting tools can't be ignored, however, so perhaps anti-aircraft armament will see implementation.

Are there mechanisms in place, or will there be, to trade resources for technological improvements? If someone develops better armor technique or radio, can I trade to get that?

Yes, of course. Benefits are not immediate, however- you need to wait 1 3-month cycle for them to take effect.

And Thirdfain, what about game mechanics for Q-ships, armed merchantmen, privateers and transports...?
Smile

Give me some time to work something up.any suggestions?

Are offers of rebate for shipping passages through bottlenecks possible or favourite harbour charges?

You may make any deals you want, however, it also decreases the chance of your recieving an economic boost to your production if you are giving people large rebates on fees.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2006-09-11 08:42pm

Rough Nation history, details on modern factions to come after I put up the point usage (I've also got to get a map up somehow:)

Tsarist New Guinea

The sordid history of modern Tsarist New Guinea originates in the great war of Europe. New Guinea was first claimed by the Netherlands in 1828, however colonization did not begin until Dutchmen, fleeing from the French conquest, Prussian “Liberation,” and English Invasion of the homeland, along with the war in the pacific landed on the North West Coast of the Island. Founding a series of towns and trading posts the Dutchmen went about rebuilding their wealth in the east, until they were driven inland by repeated raiding by European parties. Forced into close co-operation with the natives, the Dutch came back to the coast once more, creating the fortified towns of New Rotterdam, New Haarlem, Burensburg, and Middlesburg. Selling food and cloth to passing ships the Dutchmen were able to garner a tidy profit, and were able to repel French raids on the coast.

This arrangement continued until 1868, when the “Forrest Company,” organized by Nathan Bedford Forrest, came to New Guinea promising the young Confederate States of America both a pacific colony and an “endless supply of Negroes” to make up for the continued harassment of the slave trade by the North. The Forrest Company arrived on the Eastern Shores of the Island, hoping to export slaves and raw materials through to Mexico and then up to the CSA. Friction immediately arose between the Netherlanders, whose mere existence on the island was dependent on good relations with the Natives, and the Americans. Open hostility did not break out, despite American strong arm practices and Dutch supplying arms to the native rebellion, until after Forrest left for home, recalled in preparation of the second war between the states (and captured on the way back by a lucky Union cutter) in 1871. The war intensified when the American towns of Leesburgh and Davis Point, bristling under harsh control of the Forrest Company, declared themselves independent of the companies control (after secret negotiations with Dutch merchants,) and released all the slaves under their control in 1873. The armed conflict eventually reached a stalemate in 1875, with the American control restricted to their conclave on the eastern coast of the island, connected by railroads it was to strong to be taken by siege by the Dutch lead native armies, but the Americans were to weak to try to extend their influence.

In 1880 the young Tsarevich Nicholas was touring the Russian Pacific Fleet when the assassination of Tsar Alexander III and the overthrow of the ruling Tsarist government took place. His position imperiled, and with plotters coming after him, it was only the quick thinking of Sergei Witte who saved the young Tsar’s life. Rushing him aboard the Russian fleet in the harbour before news of the assassination reached general ears, setting to sea right away to ensure his safety. A passing Guinean official, hearing news of what had happened, made an offer to the fleet to the Tsar’s council. In exchange for the fleet’s support in removing the last of the American holdings in New Guinea, the Dutch would give safe-harbour to the Tsar’s fleet and declare their allegiance to him. Sweeping down before the Americans had time to react, the Russian fleet was able to pin the Americans in port and bombard their position from the sea, while the Dutch led a simultaneous assault on the ports. The result was a final success, not only finally evicting the last Americans from the island, but catching a small Confederate fleet in port unaware in the process.

In 1881 a new constitution was written, comprising all of New Guinea. The territory was divided into six districts, two Dutch, one Russian, one American, and two native. Each one has a separate governor and is run semi-autonomously from the central government. In theory, however, Tsar Nicholas II is autocrat over the nation, while in practice the government of the past nine years has worked as something of a council, with consensus between the governors and the Tsar’s personal council as the main method for government decision making. Sergei Witte, who served as Regent until Nicholas’ 16th birthday and now serves as “Minister of the Interior,” a rough equivalent to Prime Minister (though all formal power rests in the Tsar alone) has spearheaded a strong industrialization platform over the past decade, trying to bring New Guinea up to the standards of the nations around it.

EDIT: I elabore in the factions post, but Nicholas has no ties left in Russia, and is not going to be able to go back any time soon (however much he might desperatley want to.)

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-09-11 08:53pm

Any further ideas on the mechanics of "Time" Of have such a vast amount of thing I wish to build but can't get started till next 'turn'

Post by **Beowulf** » 2006-09-11 08:54pm

Ships of the Crown Colony of Western Australia
by John I Thornycroft and Co.

Victoria-class Battleship
350ft long, 70ft beam, 25ft draught
12500 ton normal displacement
250pts
Armament:
6x12" guns (2 triples fore/aft)
10x4.7" guns (Casemate, above freeboard)
8x37mm Pom-Pom (deck mount, with shield)
4x18" Torpedos (submerged)
50pts
Armor:
15" belt, 200'long 10'high
turrets: 15" face, 10" gunhouse, 10" barbette
5" casemate
5" deck
15" conning tower
40pts
5pts torpedo
Speed:
15knots max
8000nm range at 7.5knots
15pts
15pts maneuver

Hawke-class 1st Class Cruiser
350ft long, 40 beam, 30ft draught
8000 ton normal displacement
160pts
Armament:
2x9.2" guns (2 singles fore/aft)
8x4.7" guns (Casemate, above freeboard)
8x37mm Pom-Pom (deck mount, with shield)
4x18" Torpedos (submerged)
25pts
Armor:
5" belt, 350' long, 10' high
barbettes 4" shield, 10" barbette
4" casemate
5" deck
12" conning tower
15pts
5pts torpedo
Speed:
20knots max
5000nm range at 9 knots
20pts
15pts maneuver

Andromache-class 2nd Class Cruiser
350ft long, 40 beam, 30ft draught
4000 ton normal displacement
80pts
Armament:
2x6" guns (2 singles fore/aft)
6x4.7" guns (Casemate, above freeboard)
8x37mm Pom-Pom (deck mount, with shield)
4x18" Torpedos (submerged)
10pts
Armor:
barbettes 3" shield, 5" barbette
3" casemate
3" deck
9" conning tower
15pts
2pts torpedo
Speed:
20knots max
5000nm range at 7.5 knots
8pts
5pts maneuver

Pearl-class 3rd Class Cruiser
350ft long, 40 beam, 30ft draught
2500 ton normal displacement
50pts
Armament:
12x4.7" guns (Casemate, above freeboard)
8x37mm Pom-Pom (deck mount, with shield)
4x18" Torpedos (submerged)
8pts
Armor:
5" casemate
3.5" deck
10" conning tower
8pts
1pts torpedo
Speed:
15knots max
5000nm range at 9.25 knots
6pts
2pts maneuver

Havock-class Torpedo Boat Destroyer
200ft long, 25 beam, 11ft draught
500 ton normal displacement
50pts
Armament:
1x3" guns (deck mount, with shield)
3x37mm Pom-Pom (deck mount, with shield)
4x18" Torpedoes
2pts
Speed:
27knots max
2250nm range at 7.5 knots
2pts
1pts maneuver

B-class Torpedo Boat
100 ton displacement
2pt
Armament:
1x37mm Pom-Pom (deck mount, with shield)
1x6.5mm Maxim (deck mount, with shield)
2x18" Torpedos
Speed:
1pt

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-11 08:58pm

My OOB probably won't be done until Wednsday, I'm afraid.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-09-11 09:27pm

Crossroads Inc. wrote:Any further ideas on the mechanics of "Time" Of have such a vast amount of thing I wish to build but can't get started till next 'turn'

Time is fluid. It depends on how much action is taking place in-game.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-09-11 10:08pm

Quick question, It was mentioned that we could basically trade resources twice. A resource like, og coal, could by used by a nation, and then also traded to one other person. If we have a resource we have no intention of using can we trade it twice?

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2006-09-11 10:23pm

Shipping thoughts.

For general shipping, it might be useful to have something on the lines of a general shipping pool.

1 pt per 1,000 tonnes of capacity. Each player might get a set amount at the beginning. But after this, you need to build your own.

Q-Ships - these must be built to the general warship lines if these are simply disguised warships (very heavily armed). In my view, these are to be submitted to Thirdfain directly since the purpose is to be secret.
Include a "dummy" ship in your listing that is replaced by the Q-ship. You are "overpaying" (capability wise) in points for the secrecy.

Troop transports - I'm not sure if enough reason exists to differentiate these from your general shipping pool. Only issue here would be making sure that if you ship troops in a turn, you can't ship opium, coal, etc...

Armed merchantmen (have a few 3 or 5 pounders - could fight off some very lightly armed ships. That is it). 3 pts per 1,000 tonnes capacity. More expensive than regular shipping, but still only a 1/3 of a warship.

Pirates/privateers. These should be simply regular warships in my view. Just optimize them for piracy operations (very fast, very agile, with low firepower, protection, and torpedo protection).

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2006-09-11 10:24pm

I'll be handing out my order of battle on Wed/Thurs subject to any input about shipping.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2006-09-11 11:51pm

Yarr, your thoughts on pirates sounds good. Course, I may be tweaking that a bit.

Yarr.

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2006-09-12 03:25am

Jalinth wrote:Shipping thoughts.

For general shipping, it might be useful to have something on the lines of a general shipping pool.

1 pt per 1,000 tonnes of capacity. Each player might get a set amount at the beginning. But after this, you need to build your own.

Q-Ships - these must be built to the general warship lines if these are simply disguised warships (very heavily armed). In my view, these are to be submitted to Thirdfain directly since the purpose is to be secret.
Include a "dummy" ship in your listing that is replaced by the Q-ship. You are "overpaying" (capability wise) in points for the secrecy.

Troop transports - I'm not sure if enough reason exists to differentiate these from your general shipping pool. Only issue here would be making sure that if you ship troops in a turn, you can't ship opium, coal, etc...

Armed merchantmen (have a few 3 or 5 pounders - could fight off some very lightly armed ships. That is it). 3 pts per 1,000 tonnes capacity. More expensive than regular shipping, but still only a 1/3 of a warship.

Pirates/privateers. These should be simply regular warships in my view. Just optimize them for piracy operations (very fast, very agile, with low firepower, protection, and torpedo protection).

Sounds good as a principle. How much initial shipping points would be ok? 1000 points, or too much tonnage?

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-12 11:12am

What exactly can sulfur be used for? I've got extra, but I'm at a loss about it.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-09-12 11:21am

CaptainChewbacca wrote:What exactly can sulfur be used for? I've got extra, but I'm at a loss about it.

I believe making Gun Powder and various chemicals.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-09-12 11:59am

Crossroads Inc. wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:What exactly can sulfur be used for? I've got extra, but I'm at a loss about it.
I believe making Gun Powder and various chemicals.

Thanks. BTW, you posted your OOB in the wrong thread.

Crossroads Inc. · Post by **Crossroads Inc.** » 2006-09-12 12:11pm

CaptainChewbacca wrote:
Crossroads Inc. wrote:
CaptainChewbacca wrote:What exactly can sulfur be used for? I've got extra, but I'm at a loss about it.
I believe making Gun Powder and various chemicals.
Thanks. BTW, you posted your OOB in the wrong thread.

No, I posted my OOB on page 9 of this thread, what I posted in the other thread was an open 'Catalogue' of civilian ships offered for sale to other nations.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-09-12 12:46pm

Armada Real de los Estado de India
Royal Indian States Navy

Doctorine

The Estados navy adheres to the grand battle doctrine- citing examples such as the sinking of the Spanish Armada, it's admirals contend that victory abroad is acheived by meeting and destroying the core of the enemy's fleet in a single major engagement. This has lead to a somewhat different force than most fleets on the sea. Vast sums have been diverted to the construction of a heavy battle-line, a great stretch that has limited military spending in other areas and forced the Exercito Real (Royal Army) to rely largely on native levies from the "estaçãos-" "Stationers"- civilized Hindus and Muslims from the lands of those Indian princes whose domains through which the Goa-Mangalore railway runs.

4x Nossa Senhora de India-class Battleships (250 pts)
NRA Nossa Senhora de India
NRA Nossa Senhora das Necessidades
NRA Maria II a Educadora
NRA Pedro V o Esperacoso
-1000 pts total
Mass: 12,500 tonnes
Armament:
4x 12-inch guns
8x 6-inch guns
6x 3-pounders
6x gatlings
5x 18-inch Whitehead torpedo tubes
Fire:40
Protection:30
Speed:25
Torpedo Protection:5
Maneuver:25

6x Rainha-class Armoured Cruisers (180 pts)
NRA Rainha de Goa
NRA Rainha de Mysore
NRA Rainha de Portugal
NRA Rainha de Ceilao
NRA Rainha de Timor
NRA Rainha de Ormus
-1080 pts total
Mass: 9,000 tonnes
Armament:
4x 8-inch guns
10x 6-inch guns
5x 3-pounders
4x gatlings
4x 18-inch Whitehead torpedo tubes
Fire:25
Protection:20
Speed:20
Torpedo Protection:5
Maneuver:20

6x Sao Carlos-class Protected Cruisers (70 pts)
NRA Sao Carlos
NRA San Cristobal
NRA Santa Tereza de Jesus
NRA Sao Simao
NRA Sao Francisco Xavier
NRA Sao Tome
-420 pts total
Mass:3,500 tonnes
Armament:
2x 6-inch guns
4x 4.7-inch guns
4x 6-pounders
4x gatlings
3x 18-inch Whitehead torpedo tubes
Fire:10
Protection:5
Speed:10
Torpedo Protection:0
Maneuver:10

20x Serpente-class Torpedoboat Destroyers (10 pts)
-200 pts total
Fire:2
Speed:1
Maneuver:2

50x Medusa-class Motor Torpedo Boats(2 pts)
-100 pts total
Maneuver:1

Total:
2,800 pts

Fortresses

Castelo Real de Goa
(Goa)
-50 pts

Castelo Real de Mangalore
(Mangalore)
-50 pts

Castelo Govern de Colombo
(Colombo)
-50 pts

Total:
150 pts

Exercito Real de los Estado de India
Royal Army of the State of India

"1. Divisao de Guarda Real"-300 pts
-10,000 men-
Top quality troops, armed with Armamento Estado bolt-action rifles and trained to the highest standard. A mix of European and estaçãos troops, Royal Guards are equipped with horse-drawn Maxims and field guns.

"1. Divisao de Exercito"-200 pts
-10,000 men-
"2. Divisao de Exercito"-200 pts
-10,000 men-
Short-service regulars, trained and equipped with modern weapons and maxims.

"Exercito Cavalheiros"
"Civilized Army"

"Cavalaria Principes"- 200 pts
5,000 men
Hose-cavalry formed out of estação nobles armed with some modern weapons and trained in basic Western tactics.

"Divisao Cavalheiros de Mumbai"-50 pts
10,000 men
"Divisao Cavalheiros de Pune"-50 pts
10,000 men
"Divisao Cavalheiros de Mysore"-50 pts
10,000 men

Total:
1,050 pts

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2006-09-12 12:49pm

Hey Thirdfain, wasn't it you who said that each nation isn't expected to have more than one battleship?

I thought this was the case, otherwise I must rethink my OOB....

Vanas · Post by **Vanas** » 2006-09-12 02:02pm

Here's a quick and probably annoying question:

As practically all of my ships are multiple-hulled, would my ship stats be their equivalent as a standard ship, or as they would be for a multi-hull ship?

I ask only because they'd, in theory, have Armour and T armour (simply due to being hard to sink) above that of a normal ship.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2006-09-12 02:09pm

I agree with Dahak on the point about multiple battleships, but my opinion isn't that everybody should build a crowd of them, I think that Thirdfain should just cut his back. First off it's pretty disingenuous to say earlier in the thread "people should only have one battleship" and then in your own OOB claim four. Second, there shouldn't be fleets of battleships cruising the Indian Ocean until later in the game, so I think everyone ought to be limited to one BB.

But a larger problem is that his maths are wrong; his naval OOB comes to 2800 points, not 2500, although he overestimated the cost of his army by 150 points. Altogether he has 4200 points invested, so he's going to have to at least revise that for a start.

Raesene · Post by **Raesene** » 2006-09-12 02:27pm

Austrian Army

Garde, Division I
10 000 men with cutting-edge equipment (I have no idea what that could be), including machine guns
volunteers, professional soldiers
stationed at the capital city and main island (southernmost island)
300 pts

Landwehr, Divisions II - IV
conscripts with maxim guns
these divisions serve as defensive force three northern large islands
100 pts each

artillery division V
5 000 men with mobile and siege artillery, half of the mobile artillery is detached to guard harbors of towns througout the island chain
300 pts

Fortresses:

Fortress Miramare
guards the capital city 'Miramare', the main harbor and naval base

6 x 30,5 cm guns in single emplacements
10 x mobile 12 cm guns in various locations.
several postions prepared and connected via rail tracks. dummy guns will fill positions not filled with actual guns
guns can be trained towards the country to ward off approaching armies

[maybe railroad guns are not as mobile as I think they are]

300 pts

Fortress Neu Pola
guards secondary fleet base on the northernmost island

6 x 15 cm guns
6 x 12 cm guns
all in fixed positions

100 pts.

Merchant fleet

200 pts distributed to merchant fleet

under construction:

Fleet:
1 protected cruiser for 120 pts 'SMS Aubrey Island', 6 months until completion
5 torpedo boat destroyers, Typ 'Chimäre'
1 somplete in three months, the other 4 in six months

3 x 7,6 cm guns
4 50 cm torpedo tubes without reloads
600 ts

armament: 2
protection 0
torpedo protecion 0
speed 2
maneuver 2
600 t, 12 pts

remaining 130
30 points for reinvestment
100 points in reserve raw materials

recalculations welcome

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2006-09-12 02:42pm

Hold on- you're right, I fucked up the math- I played with the OOB a bit before posting, added the destroyers and such too late, but where did I ever set a rule that you could only have 1 battleship? I said that nations could expect to have no more than about 10 capital ships. Pardon if I did say as such... I just don't remember doing it.

In any case, I'm fiddling with the set-up now...

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2006-09-12 02:45pm

Anyone want to wager how much I should poor into forts and artillery-heavy cavalry to ensure I don't get invaded by the Kaliphate straight off? It'd be nice to, you know, ensure I lasted the past thirty years...