STGOD 4 OOC Thread

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:35pm

If you can see them, and have line of sight...yeah

ST Betazeds. They can do the very thing.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 01:36pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: A telepathic scan is very telling. Unless you are telling me that the person we are talking to, did not know anything about it.

And why would a communications officer on a freighter be informed about the army's operations?

You may be buying said gold, we have no problem with that. But by selling above the market price yu wuld deflate our currency.

No... I'll tell you why too.

A. As I said when I met Raistilin it's news that the gold was destroyed, and we're keeping it hushed so that your government could act quickly.

B. Selling the gold at any price doesn't change the fact that you sold the gold. For a gold based economy that means you need the gold, not you need the gold owned by some other nation that won't be selling the gold till a very big galactic crisis is over. The fact that you'd be selling it at a higher price would infact make the value of gold go up, making the deflation worse, not better.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-16 01:39pm

If you can see them, and have line of sight...yeah

ST Betazeds. They can do the very thing.

All they can see is the communications officer, I'll wager that armored, particle-shielded hull plate counts as blocking line of sight for the rest of the crew.

Betazeds can detect emotions and feelings, not full-blown detailed military schemes at those ranges, IIRC.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:42pm

And why would a communications officer on a freighter be informed about the army's operations?

Because a Comm officer would generally be aware of what is going on with the ship. The command staff would probably be informed of whether or not a ship has military vessells piggybacking. Though, that s speculation, as I dont know how high ranking your comm officers are.

And regardless, if our currency deflates dangerously, we keep god ut of circulation we can inject back in.

essentially, I worked it so we know what you are doing, but it wont effect game mechanics. Or our international relations. It doesnt hurt you, we arnt blowing your ships out of orbit. So it doesnt matter

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:44pm

Thirdfain wrote:
If you can see them, and have line of sight...yeah

ST Betazeds. They can do the very thing.
All they can see is the communications officer, I'll wager that armored, particle-shielded hull plate counts as blocking line of sight for the rest of the crew.

Betazeds can detect emotions and feelings, not full-blown detailed military schemes at those ranges, IIRC.

They would be able to see anyone else on the screen, and again, itt depends n how well informed the ships majr staff is. I doubt they would not be informed of miitary transports piggybacking on their ships.

betazeds are full telepaths.
Troi is a half betazed, and is empathic.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 01:46pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
And why would a communications officer on a freighter be informed about the army's operations?
Because a Comm officer would generally be aware of what is going on with the ship. The command staff would probably be informed of whether or not a ship has military vessells piggybacking. Though, that s speculation, as I dont know how high ranking your comm officers are.

No... The Comm Officer would be aware of what communications were sent during his shift. Further more you can't really read his mind if he's out of your telepath's sight, like he would be in a starship, can you?

And regardless, if our currency deflates dangerously, we keep god ut of circulation we can inject back in.

So? Start doing it then, when Raistilin tells your government to start injecting gold...

essentially, I worked it so we know what you are doing, but it wont effect game mechanics.

Uh... not one that would feasbily work no...

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 01:48pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:They would be able to see anyone else on the screen, and again, itt depends n how well informed the ships majr staff is. I doubt they would not be informed of miitary transports piggybacking on their ships.

Quite clearly I said headset, as in audio only not visual communications. Further more why the hell would the military blow the cover of an operation to the complete command crew, it's quite possible that only a few minor crew members know, and are being bribed to stay quiet over this.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-16 01:48pm

Allow me to rephrase-

Even if it's possible, in Star Trek, for the betazeds to read minds accurately and fully on a vessel in orbit, then it shouldn't be in this STGOD. It's frankly overpowered; especially considering that your telepath doesn't REALLY have LOS on the ship's bridge crew; all he/she can see is a few photons on his illusion screen or whatever. I don't believe, in D&D, that someone's illusion counts as his actual being for the purposes of reaing his mind.

-edit- Oh, and the Audio Communications thing clears this up nicely.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:49pm

No... The Comm Officer would be aware of what communications were sent during his shift. Further more you can't really read his mind if he's out of your telepath's sight, like he would be in a starship, can you?

I am assuming a small personal video comm.

And Iedited the post to take otusome of the detail.

If you are tellingme that a raning officer would not be informed of ships piggybacking on the vessel, and that they would have no contact with said vessel or what their mission is... bullshit.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:50pm

Thirdfain wrote:Allow me to rephrase-

Even if it's possible, in Star Trek, for the betazeds to read minds accurately and fully on a vessel in orbit, then it shouldn't be in this STGOD. It's frankly overpowered; especially considering that your telepath doesn't REALLY have LOS on the ship's bridge crew; all he/she can see is a few photons on his illusion screen or whatever. I don't believe, in D&D, that someone's illusion counts as his actual being for the purposes of reaing his mind.

-edit- Oh, and the Audio Communications thing clears this up nicely.

And sending cloaked ships into the atmosphere of a heavily populated world with complete impugnity isnt overpowered?

Actually it is possible to read smeones mind over a scry or remote view.

*shrug*

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-16 01:51pm

Communications officers are not command staff in any navy which I am aware of.

Not all ships would use viewscreens. In fact, a viewscreen which shows the entire bridge to a potential enemy with transporters is a monumentally stupid move on behalf of Star Trek, but that's just me.

But thanks. It's nice to know you mind-scan everyone coming into your territory on a whim. That's going to go over great with the galactic public at large once it gets out. How very Libertarian...

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 01:54pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: If you are tellingme that a raning officer would not be informed of ships piggybacking on the vessel, and that they would have no contact with said vessel or what their mission is... bullshit.

Why? Who says the comm officer is ranking? Even in TOS Uhura was just a lieutenant and not informed of anything major that she didn't have to transmit. If I have an Ensign in charge of the comm he probably wouldn't know anything.

Further more how are you getting the information that we'er selling electronic goods instananeously(sp?)? And how would you know that those are Monacorans, and not, say, Arcanists who bough some nice stuff and are selling it to make a nice profit?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:55pm

We make no secret that we use telepathic scans if we suspect someone of a crime. They are admissable in court and are used regularly. We do not search their homes or persons, not do we deep scan. But it is simply a scan for pertinent info.

"Did you kill Mr. Johnson?"
"So"
"Lies... you killed him with an axe"

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 01:56pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:We make no secret that we use telepathic scans if we suspect someone of a crime. They are admissable in court and are used regularly. We do not search their homes or persons, not do we deep scan. But it is simply a scan for pertinent info.

"Did you kill Mr. Johnson?"
"So"
"Lies... you killed him with an axe"

Hearsay.

Congrats on your 10,000 post BTW.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:56pm

Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: If you are tellingme that a raning officer would not be informed of ships piggybacking on the vessel, and that they would have no contact with said vessel or what their mission is... bullshit.
Why? Who says the comm officer is ranking? Even in TOS Uhura was just a lieutenant and not informed of anything major that she didn't have to transmit. If I have an Ensign in charge of the comm he probably wouldn't know anything.

Further more how are you getting the information that we'er selling electronic goods instananeously(sp?)? And how would you know that those are Monacorans, and not, say, Arcanists who bough some nice stuff and are selling it to make a nice profit?

I edited the post, removed the selling detail.

I think it would be reasonable however to know that you did have intentional piggybackers(again, they would have to communicate with your ship at some point)

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 01:57pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: I think it would be reasonable however to know that you did have intentional piggybackers(again, they would have to communicate with your ship at some point)

Why would they have to communicate with the ship?

And how do you know the captain isn't lieing, or that some insignifigant crew members aren't being bribed?

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:58pm

Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:We make no secret that we use telepathic scans if we suspect someone of a crime. They are admissable in court and are used regularly. We do not search their homes or persons, not do we deep scan. But it is simply a scan for pertinent info.

"Did you kill Mr. Johnson?"
"So"
"Lies... you killed him with an axe"
Hearsay.

Congrats on your 10,000 post BTW.

It isnt hearsay in our courts. The scan is confirmed by other teeps, and the testifying teep is also scanned by the judge(who also tends to be a telepath)

(thank you)

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 01:59pm

Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote: I think it would be reasonable however to know that you did have intentional piggybackers(again, they would have to communicate with your ship at some point)
Why would they have to communicate with the ship?

And how do you know the captain isn't lieing, or that some insignifigant crew members aren't being bribed?

Oh I dont knw.. possibly simply because they are attached

"we are hooking up now"
"CLoak engaged"
"We are ready for the jump to hyperspce"

The comm officer would HAVE to kinw.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-16 02:03pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:We make no secret that we use telepathic scans if we suspect someone of a crime. They are admissable in court and are used regularly.

Wow, thought police. Good job. You really just don't understand how oppressive that is, do you?

We do not search their homes or persons, not do we deep scan. But it is simply a scan for pertinent info.

"Did you kill Mr. Johnson?"
"No"
"Lies... you killed him with an axe"

The fact that the majority of your people would have a high resistance to telepatic scans would mean that you would have to dig a lot deeper than just a casual scan to get the pertinant info out.

Also, hate to say it, but telepaths are not a be-all-end-all to lie detectors. They are people, and people are fallible. This is why your "thought transcript" you sent to VNN had no real weight. It was nothing more than hearsay that had been written down, with nothing to verify the points you wanted verified. Even if a second telepath had been listening in and written a seperate thought transcript, it would have been worthless.

Personal bias is a huge problem, and without controls to eliminate or minimize it, well...thought police, oppressive state, so on and so forth.

And I don't care how deep you're going into someone's mind. If you're going into their mind without their express permission, it's an invasion of privacy. End of story.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-16 02:05pm

And sending cloaked ships into the atmosphere of a heavily populated world with complete impugnity isnt overpowered?

On the contrary. It's often necessary for the insertion of agents or perhaps scouting. Monacora paid with it's entire fuckin' navy for that ability, and so far, it hasn't abused it. Using it to damage your extremely fragile economic model seems to me to be a legitimate usage of forces.

As for scrying or whatever other methods, you can't just instantly scry a ship or person. The rest of us have to rely on actual effort, such as boarding and searching, to interdict incoming craft we don't like; why shouldn't you?

If you are so worried about the ship, then throw the nice government thing to the wind and just board and search the transport. It would be within your power to do so.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 02:16pm

We cant scry the ship anymore than a sensor can. But scrying on their comm officer and using it like a video is well within limits. They may not have me on screen, but I have the comm officer on mine.

Wow, thought police. Good job. You really just don't understand how oppressive that is, do you?

No, not necessarily. We dont scan them for thoughts of sedition(no such crime exists)

The people have absolute freedom to think etc etc. However, catching criminals is the primary purpose of our government. And if someone DOES commit a crime, we will catch them.

The fact that the majority of your people would have a high resistance to telepatic scans would mean that you would have to dig a lot deeper than just a casual scan to get the pertinant info out.

They know to bury their surface thoughts yes, but how well trained will a comm officer working for a private company be in that regard?

A surface scan is all that is need for this, and against criminals, that is what a long drawn out interrogation does... Wears them down. Eventually, they will let it slip.

it's an invasion of privacy.

We arent saying it isnt. But it is an acceptable one in our culture.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-05-16 02:18pm

ALyrium, I'm not done on Earth yet. I just got back to a computer, and I'm still composing a post dealing with Raistlin.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2004-05-16 02:20pm

Already fixed the problem

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 02:48pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Straha wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:We make no secret that we use telepathic scans if we suspect someone of a crime. They are admissable in court and are used regularly. We do not search their homes or persons, not do we deep scan. But it is simply a scan for pertinent info.

"Did you kill Mr. Johnson?"
"So"
"Lies... you killed him with an axe"
Hearsay.

Congrats on your 10,000 post BTW.
It isnt hearsay in our courts. The scan is confirmed by other teeps, and the testifying teep is also scanned by the judge(who also tends to be a telepath)

Hearsay! Hearsay! Hearsay!

This begs the ever important question, what would be hearsay in your courts?

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-05-16 02:55pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote: Oh I dont knw.. possibly simply because they are attached

"we are hooking up now"
"CLoak engaged"
"We are ready for the jump to hyperspce"

The comm officer would HAVE to kinw.

Why? If they attached themselves without letting the ship know then why the hell would the crew have to know at all?