STGOD 4 OOC Thread

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-05-19 02:03pm

Straha wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:
the ship captians meerly had their comm dishes turned off for some inexplecable reason and so where unable to recieve his orders. the offercs in command of the ships will be disiplined of course.
Bullshit. Going to have to try harder than that.
Doesn't really matter. Either way we're going to remove people that we think are badly placed throughout the entire Jardanian armed forces, and we're going to replace them with our people.

Grrrrrr. Just you wait until the 6 months are up..........

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 02:05pm

lazerus wrote:Grrrrrr. Just you wait until the 6 months are up..........

Yes...just you wait..

lazerus · Post by **lazerus** » 2004-05-19 02:09pm

Hotfoot wrote:
lazerus wrote:Grrrrrr. Just you wait until the 6 months are up..........
Yes...just you wait..

uh.........*looks at big scary universe full of people with guns*

uh......at which time we will, of course, reaffirm the treaty.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 02:15pm

Man, what a difference 24 hours makes. This is ridiculous! You set him up in a way that everyone, in and out of character, should have been able to see. You demanded information that he'd only have if he was guilty, and threatened to blow him up if he didn't hand it over. If he handed over the information (assuming he was guilty, which he wasn't) you'd destroy his empire for collaborating in the Rape of Terra, and if he didn't you'd destroy his empire for not handing over the information. He couldn't win and you all know it. And the leaders of your empires knew it too.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 02:23pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Man, what a difference 24 hours makes. This is ridiculous! You set him up in a way that everyone, in and out of character, should have been able to see. You demanded information that he'd only have if he was guilty, and threatened to blow him up if he didn't hand it over. If he handed over the information (assuming he was guilty, which he wasn't) you'd destroy his empire for collaborating in the Rape of Terra, and if he didn't you'd destroy his empire for not handing over the information. He couldn't win and you all know it. And the leaders of your empires knew it too.

Maybe you should stop looking at this from a metagaming perspective. In response to an alliance which would threaten everyone in Known Space, they demanded the right to perform their own inspections. He flat out refused.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 02:23pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Man, what a difference 24 hours makes. This is ridiculous! You set him up in a way that everyone, in and out of character, should have been able to see. You demanded information that he'd only have if he was guilty, and threatened to blow him up if he didn't hand it over.

Funny how you focused in on that. You're not thinking clearly. Had Alyrium backed down and opened up his borders to inspectors, it would have become clear that he didn't have that information. He didn't do that. Instead, he just repeated the same old story, and refused to comply otherwise. That's what got him into all this trouble.

If he handed over the information (assuming he was guilty, which he wasn't) you'd destroy his empire for collaborating in the Rape of Terra,

Um, no. Not destroy. Was Japan destroyed for working with the Germans in WW2? No.

and if he didn't you'd destroy his empire for not handing over the information. He couldn't win and you all know it. And the leaders of your empires knew it too.

Actually, he could win. WE SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIM HOW HE COULD GET OUT OF IT NUMEROUS TIMES. I don't think this can be stated clearly enough. He had an out, a very clear one which was pointed out to him many times by many people on the OOC thread. He refused to take it and instead HE CHOSE to self-destruct and hit the reset button.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 02:43pm

They had thrown away the sane, rational solution, and had instead chosen to provoke the angry mob at its gates into fighting. If this didn’t prove, more than ever, that the Arcanists had some sort of sick deal with the Mechanoids, well, little would.

No they didn't. I still stand by my assessment; you had the accusation of a power that had already proven itself to be extremely untrustworthy and furthermore had every reason to lie. That's all you had to go on. You don't make war over that.

and the Alliance which threatened to unite Known Space under a single, powerful banner has fallen.

Bullshit, Thirdfain. He wasn't even the initiating member of the Alliance, and the loss of one signatory does not negate the whole damn thing.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 02:44pm

WE SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIM HOW HE COULD GET OUT OF IT NUMEROUS TIMES.

And lied through your teeth while saying it. Your requirements would destroy his sovereignty.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 02:48pm

Rogue 9 wrote:No they didn't. I still stand by my assessment; you had the accusation of a power that had already proven itself to be extremely untrustworthy. That's all you had to go on. You don't make war over that.

Your assessment is inherently flawed by your rampant metagaming. Want me to tear apart your nation's response piece by piece?

Bullshit, Thirdfain. He wasn't even the initiating member of the Alliance, and the loss of one signatory does not negate the whole damn thing.

Right now, anyone coming to Alyrium's defense is completely insane. He chose this path of madness, and now if he's allowed to continue with his exodus, the only thing he will achieve is providing a solid link between his people and the mechanoids. It's pretty clear that if he could move his entire population from this plane of existance that he had virtually nothing to lose from an alliance with the Mechanoids.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 02:50pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
WE SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIM HOW HE COULD GET OUT OF IT NUMEROUS TIMES.
And lied through your teeth while saying it. Your requirements would destroy his sovereignty.

Inspectors going through records do not destroy sovereignty. You should take off the tin foil hat. This is getting very tiresome.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 02:52pm

Pablo Sanchez wrote:So, you're giving them unfettered access to your (abandoned) territory. Which is what they asked for in the first place. In exchange, you're taking on untold expense in relocating your people and sacrificing military forces to buy time. This doesn't make any sense, dude.

Given the Hajr's history of smashing and colonizing worlds with absolutely zero justification, I wouldn't want to stick around for them to "inspect" the planet I'm on either. (For the record, I didn't think Thirdfain meant inhabited worlds at the diplomatic conference when I agreed to the Diaspora; I thought he was referring to pre-civilization planets. I would never have agreed to allow him to smash independent spacefaring worlds with impunity had I realized it, but what's done is done.)

Oh, and that about us launching no operation to find the foreign aid? You'd already declared your agents absolutely untraceable, Thirdfain. Nothing we could do would find them, and if we did they looked and even genetically tested like locals. Oh yeah, any sort of operation would work reeeeaaaaal well.

It was useless, Thirdfain. No point. None at all. I wasn't about to waste my time doing something that I already knew you'd just lean back and laugh at.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 02:54pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
WE SPECIFICALLY TOLD HIM HOW HE COULD GET OUT OF IT NUMEROUS TIMES.
And lied through your teeth while saying it. Your requirements would destroy his sovereignty.

Fuck you. I was not lying, you little shitstain. That was the truth. If you're so caught up in your own bullshit you might see that.

It would put Alyrium in a very bad position, yes, but Alyrium earned it. It was still one that could be played from, and could provide some interesting results. He could have even redeemed himself if he played his cards right. So what, you're arguing that because wouldn't let him get out of this smelling like roses, we're unfair? Bullshit. He had an out. His military would be ordered to stand down, and we would have to look through all his recent records, yes. He'd lose power, but he'd still be in the game, and still able to contribute.

There was no way he could have walked away from this without any consequences, but that's how life works. There are consequences for your actions, and you have to be prepared to accept that.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 03:00pm

if he's allowed to continue with his exodus, the only thing he will achieve is providing a solid link between his people and the mechanoids.

Bullshit. How? He's providing proof that he doesn't want you to bombard the hell out of his civilian population. That's it. You're asking him to prove a negative that he simply cannot prove.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 03:02pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Given the Hajr's history of smashing and colonizing worlds with absolutely zero justification, I wouldn't want to stick around for them to "inspect" the planet I'm on either.

Are you even reading what you write before you post it? First of all, the inspection would have been a joint venture, led by the Monacorans, not the Hajr. Secondly, how does inspection of documents lead to conquering? Please, I would like to know.

Oh, and that about us launching no operation to find the foreign aid? You had already declared your agents absolutely untraceable. Nothing we could do would find them, and if we did they looked and even genetically tested like locals. Oh yeah, any sort of operation would work reeeeaaaaal well. It was useless, Thirdfain. No point. None at all. I wasn't about to waste my time doing something that I already knew you'd just lean back and laugh at.

Oh my god, and we're back to this shit AGAIN? Jesus Christ you just don't ever stop! How the fuck does this relate to the current situation at all? Now all you're doing is bitching about Thirdfain being a sneaky bastard. Again.

So because you made NO EFFORT to find his agents, due DIRECTLY to your metagaming, it's somehow his fault that you never started to sniff out a trail? Wow. Do you have any idea just how stupid that is? Instead of talking to him in OOC or in PM or AIM, you just stew about it, let the angst build up, and it comes spewing out again over a completely unrelated incident.

This is getting really annoying.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 03:04pm

There was no way he could have walked away from this without any consequences, but that's how life works. There are consequences for your actions, and you have to be prepared to accept that.

Yeah, but from where I sit he's paying for the consequences of you people being assholes. Let's review. You smashed his empire for the heinous crime of not admitting to a misdeed that you would smash his empire for admitting to. Brilliant. You'd make the Salem witch hunters proud.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 03:05pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
if he's allowed to continue with his exodus, the only thing he will achieve is providing a solid link between his people and the mechanoids.
Bullshit. How? He's providing proof that he doesn't want you to bombard the hell out of his civilian population. That's it. You're asking him to prove a negative that he simply cannot prove.

For the last time, no one asked for that. They asked for the right to inspect the situation and records for themselves. STOP FUCKING METAGAMING. Is that much to ask?

The Arcane Empire got screwed. Whoop de do. It happens. Especially when there's a supercomputer that's absolutely terrified of magic around, orchestrating ridiculously complex and long-running plans. In case you didn't get it(And for all those who I haven't told yet), the Rape of Terra was simply so that when I dropped this stage of the plan, the outrage would almost ensure the magic users would be stepped on and removed from being a threat.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 03:05pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
if he's allowed to continue with his exodus, the only thing he will achieve is providing a solid link between his people and the mechanoids.
Bullshit. How? He's providing proof that he doesn't want you to bombard the hell out of his civilian population. That's it. You're asking him to prove a negative that he simply cannot prove.

Oh, let's see, all his people are packing up and leaving this plane of existance. Nobody is allowed to come down to inspet ANYTHING before they leave.

Can you say, "cover-up"?

There, I knew you could.

They were accused of something, and now they are stalling to get the hell out of dodge, and take any incriminating evidence with them, knowing that if they are caught with it, we won't rest until they are brought to justice.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 03:07pm

Except for the little detail that there isn't any incriminating evidence, but you're just looking to conquer some more worlds anyway, so what do you care?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 03:08pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
There was no way he could have walked away from this without any consequences, but that's how life works. There are consequences for your actions, and you have to be prepared to accept that.

Yeah, but from where I sit he's paying for the consequences of you people being assholes. Let's review. You smashed his empire for the heinous crime of not admitting to a misdeed that you would smash his empire for admitting to. Brilliant. You'd make the Salem witch hunters proud.

You dumbass. Come back when you're willing to read my posts. He refused to comply. That's what fucked him up. He DECIDED to make that choice. He had a way out, he CHOSE not to take it. How much more do I have to spell out for you?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 03:08pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Except for the little detail that there isn't any incriminating evidence, but you're just looking to conquer some more worlds anyway, so what do you care?

HEY RETARD.

We will spell this out once more, as it's not getting through.

THEY ASKED TO LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY.

Are you done with your fucking strawman bullshit?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 03:10pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Except for the little detail that there isn't any incriminating evidence, but you're just looking to conquer some more worlds anyway, so what do you care?

DO WE KNOW THERE IS NO INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE? NO!! AND NOW WE'LL NEVER KNOW! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IN-GAME KNOWLEDGE AND OUT OF CHARACTER KNOWLEDGE?!!?

Jesus fucking Christ you're dense.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 03:15pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
There was no way he could have walked away from this without any consequences, but that's how life works. There are consequences for your actions, and you have to be prepared to accept that.

Yeah, but from where I sit he's paying for the consequences of you people being assholes. Let's review. You smashed his empire for the heinous crime of not admitting to a misdeed that you would smash his empire for admitting to. Brilliant. You'd make the Salem witch hunters proud.
You dumbass. Come back when you're willing to read my posts. He refused to comply. That's what fucked him up. He DECIDED to make that choice. He had a way out, he CHOSE not to take it. How much more do I have to spell out for you?

Oh, you've spelled it out loud and clear. I just don't believe it. There were fleets from half a dozen hostile powers around his world. He drops his shields to let in inspectors and is promptly inspected by a generous helping of cruise missiles and strategic nukes. The Krell made impossible demands and then started shooting. Everyone else joined in. You know what's happened historically every damn time this scenario has come up in the STGOD? Conquest or destruction of the world in question. He had no reason to believe that this time would be any different. I still don't.

THEY ASKED TO LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY.

And compliance with that request would have been followed by the above scenario. The Ousters at least have been looking to destroy the Empire since day one. This is their big chance. They've had no qualms about taking what they want in the past. Beginning to shape up for you?

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-05-19 03:17pm

Hotfoot wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:Except for the little detail that there isn't any incriminating evidence, but you're just looking to conquer some more worlds anyway, so what do you care?
DO WE KNOW THERE IS NO INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE? NO!! AND NOW WE'LL NEVER KNOW! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU? CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IN-GAME KNOWLEDGE AND OUT OF CHARACTER KNOWLEDGE?!!?

Jesus fucking Christ you're dense.

I do know that difference. I also know that at least half the powers in orbit would open fire with all guns the second the shields were lowered.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-05-19 03:19pm

Rogue 9 wrote:I do know that difference. I also know that at least half the powers in orbit would open fire with all guns the second the shields were lowered.

You don't know shit then. You're a presumptuous little dumbass, and your recent round of bitching only goes to show that. You can't see any possible outcomes except for those which you have already decided must be true.

The fact that you think that even half of the powers in orbit would have slaughtered the Arcanists only goes to prove just how blinded you are to how the rest of us play.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-05-19 03:20pm

Rogue 9 wrote:
Hotfoot wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:
Yeah, but from where I sit he's paying for the consequences of you people being assholes. Let's review. You smashed his empire for the heinous crime of not admitting to a misdeed that you would smash his empire for admitting to. Brilliant. You'd make the Salem witch hunters proud.
You dumbass. Come back when you're willing to read my posts. He refused to comply. That's what fucked him up. He DECIDED to make that choice. He had a way out, he CHOSE not to take it. How much more do I have to spell out for you?
Oh, you've spelled it out loud and clear. I just don't believe it. There were fleets from half a dozen hostile powers around his world. He drops his shields to let in inspectors and is promptly inspected by a generous helping of cruise missiles and strategic nukes. The Krell made impossible demands and then started shooting. Everyone else joined in. You know what's happened historically every damn time this scenario has come up in the STGOD? Conquest or destruction of the world in question. He had no reason to believe that this time would be any different. I still don't.

Of course you don't, because you refuse to consider the chance you might be wrong. You're so absorbed in using OOC knowledge IC that you simply cannot allow yourself the possibility of being mistaken, huh?

THEY ASKED TO LOOK TO SEE IF THERE WAS ANY.
And compliance with that request would have been followed by the above scenario. The Ousters at least have been looking to destroy the Empire since day one. This is their big chance. They've had no qualms about taking what they want in the past. Beginning to shape up for you?

When you refuse to look at things from anything but a metagaming perspective, it might. There are those of us who are actually playing the game, though.