World of Tanks

[Nephtys]

The M1A2 76mm gun has remarkably high DPS too, if you can penetrate. Low damage per shot with a very high refire also is important as it minimizes the effects of zero damage penetrations or track hits or similar. IIRC, the M1A2 has more DPS than any of the 90mm US cannons, except for the best Pershing gun.

[Darth Wong]

The M1A2 76mm gun has remarkably high DPS too, if you can penetrate. Low damage per shot with a very high refire also is important as it minimizes the effects of zero damage penetrations or track hits or similar. IIRC, the M1A2 has more DPS than any of the 90mm US cannons, except for the best Pershing gun.

Mind you, it's also frustrating at tier-6, because you start running into a lot of tanks whose armour is thick enough to shrug it off. The best guns in the game at tier-6 are the KV-2's derp gun, the KV-1S 122mm gun, and the ARL-44's 90mm gun with its 212mm penetration. Damage per second doesn't mean much if your shots are harmlessly bouncing off the enemy. The KV-2's derp gun laughs at armour, the KV-1S has enough penetration to punch through a lot of tanks that the M1A2 gun can't (and enough alpha damage to make it hurt), and the ARL-44's 90mm gun has ridiculous penetration for its tier.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

They really need to get around to adding a proper British line so you can get a Churchill AVRE. Now that would be a derp gun.

[PeZook]

Mind you, it's also frustrating at tier-6, because you start running into a lot of tanks whose armour is thick enough to shrug it off. The best guns in the game at tier-6 are the KV-2's derp gun, the KV-1S 122mm gun, and the ARL-44's 90mm gun with its 212mm penetration. Damage per second doesn't mean much if your shots are harmlessly bouncing off the enemy. The KV-2's derp gun laughs at armour, the KV-1S has enough penetration to punch through a lot of tanks that the M1A2 gun can't (and enough alpha damage to make it hurt), and the ARL-44's 90mm gun has ridiculous penetration for its tier.

I actually don't really have problems with putting holes in people even two tiers above me. Only the KV-3 is something which I consistently meet which is nearly impervious to the chaingun ; All the German nasties have huge weak spots you can reliably target with its sweet, sweet accuracy, while American heavies have that paper-thin hull of theirs.

And since the E8 is so damn zippy, you can chose who and when to engage most of the time. Overall I deeply enjoyed my E8 and even though I could theoretically buy a T20, I'll run it a little longer to max out the crew.

[Zinegata]

Aim low with the 105, in my opinion. Lower glacis is often relatively weak, and from some angles you can (I think) get under the tank and hit the belly armor with splash damage.

You should actually aim high, because the 105mm shell tends to drop a little. It can actually fire over a hill without exposing the tank in some cases.

[Simon_Jester]

Hm. Hadn't factored that in.

My impression was that tank guns (as opposed to arty) automatically adjust elevation to hit the target, assuming a constant range.

[Marko Dash]

in auto aim mode they will, which I've actually found rather useful for the big slow derp guns like the KV-2's. if the target isn't moving pop on the auto aim, I've gotten hits from all the way across the field on campanova that way.

as to the 76mm M1A2, one jumbo armed with it is fairly deadly, two will have the enemy player flinching so much he can't aim straight, 3 of them with 2 76s and one running the 105 can kill anything in the game. this may be just for the jumbo however, it helps that it has the armor to be able to stay in the fight and put all 22 rpm (with 100% crew, vents and rammer) to good use.

[xthetenth]

The E8 is really good in companies because it doesn't have to worry about pen nearly as much. The mainstays of that level are KV-1Ss and M18s because of their punch and speed. The E8 can penetrate either with relatively minimal effort. It's got a lot of DPM and good speed, which are both quite useful if they can avoid getting alpha nuked by a 1S or even an 18.

[AniThyng]

Well I'm finally getting the hang of the panther somewhat. And also killed an SPG by shooting him once then ramming him going downhill, which was amusing.

[Nephtys]

Speaking of M18. That tank really is a strange vehicle to drive. Freaking awesome, though the nerf REALLY made it hard to maneuver. But it's the only tank that I can imagine that goes 'Sweet! An enemy Heavy! Eat hot Death, Tiger 2!' but then also goes 'Oh god, help! A Tetrarch is on me!' or 'Oh shit, not the M5 Stuart, my WORST ENEMY!'

[AniThyng]

Speaking of M18. That tank really is a strange vehicle to drive. Freaking awesome, though the nerf REALLY made it hard to maneuver. But it's the only tank that I can imagine that goes 'Sweet! An enemy Heavy! Eat hot Death, Tiger 2!' but then also goes 'Oh god, help! A Tetrarch is on me!' or 'Oh shit, not the M5 Stuart, my WORST ENEMY!'

For some reason of all the American TD's M18's are the easiest to get a bead on and kill. Must be inexperienced drivers + target fixation I guess? Because I lost count of how many M18's I've killed by clear medium range shots into the side of the hull...

All the other American TD's...ugh. Hull down and impossible to hurt without going the long way around.

[Vanas]

I think it's safe to say that most US tanks need either an expert driver or extremely specific circumstances to to get the best out of them.

This possibly explains Nephtys' and my own diametrically opposed views of Panthers vs T20s. In my experience, they're pretty much free XP. However, if the driver is very good or he's just left the ancient and mystical city of Shambhala following a century of meditation and quiet repose, gotten into his tank at the exact moment that the stars aligned according to ancient prophecies written aeons ago in the long-forgotten sunken city of Mu and memorised the maps to such a degree that he can reach that single location on the map in a matter of seconds, yeah, they'll win.

On that note, I've recently got a T29. It's presently... okay. Needs an engine. Also gun. And turret. And the other engine. Liking the turret armour, but I really need to get the hang of it. Or find some Sherpa and head out to the Mystical City on the Hills, I suppose.

[xthetenth]

The funny thing about the M18 of course is that it's got much better gun depression than the M36. It should be able to hull down better, and in my experience it can. It can also, with proper hull angling, bounce .50 caliber MG fire but the turret is actually quite bouncy. It's really good for rocketshipping from one hull down to the next, sniping when it can't find one. However a lot of people seem to confuse it for a 13 90 and start trying to pick things off, which only works when you're good enough to really know what's going on.

I think that might be a lot of what causes the Panther/T20 debate. If one is in a better position, the other's dead. A T20 isn't going to lose a peekabooming contest to a Panther, much like a Panther isn't going to lose a sniping matchup to a T20, especially if it can hide a lot of its bulk. That schmallturm is going to bounce a lot, so if the hull's hidden/sloped, the Panther doesn't have to worry much or even at all.

[Agent Sorchus]

The best T20 versus Panther match I've had was in my T20 on himelsdorf encounter battle. I charged over the hill, killed a AMX then on the crest spotted both the Panther at the base of the hill and a KV or something slow and similar that freaked out at seeing me on the hilltop and started pulling back. Now a sniping fight with a panther from hull down hilltop would've probably gone my way eventually this was an encounter battle where I had to get past and nip at the heavies going to cap quickly or the battle would've gone their way (I actually had several slow tanks coming up behind me, so the panther was doomed anyway but he still could've held up the majority of the team too long anyway.)

So I charged down the hill, using the KV as a cover from the panther and dancing back and forth behind the lumbering tank getting shots off and denying the panther until I could close to point blank and out turn the slow german tank. I got both of them and one of their arty peices before getting nuked by the rear guard and the rest of my team caught up to roll through them.

And I find it a shame that more people don't death charge like that. And too many people are easily intimidated, if the KV had stopped retreating long enough to ram me and probably track me in the open that wouldn't have worked. But it did and it was fun.

[weemadando]

Is anyone here involved in organised tournament or clan play?

[Zinegata]

xthetenth is.

[xthetenth]

Is anyone here involved in organised tournament or clan play?

I think I'm the only one here who's done either in a long while. (iirc broken was in bg a long way back, but that was NASA days, and I'm not sure he did CW). Any specific questions?

[Broken]

I was indeed in some CW for a short bit; the timing was pretty bad with my work schedule and we never got very far. Haven't touched any organized play for a long time nor touched this game for quite a while. Still waiting for that "no arty" option.

[xthetenth]

For organized play at the very least I'd contend arty's a necessary option on a large fraction of the maps. Nothing else can give that sort of firepower and flex it between flanks, and nothing else can give scouts the ability to bring fire down on campers' heads to break a camp without exposing things that can't stand up to a turtle's firepower. In random play it's mostly an annoyance for the inattentive and sloppy, and well worth it for what it adds to organized (company on up) play, especially clan wars until the next patch. Flexing is hard when a T110E5 or IS-7 is your most mobile option that can stand up to a slugging, and without flexibility turtling and mass rushes are the only real options.

[Simon_Jester]

If you removed artillery from the game, you'd almost have to remove the "scout" role too, because all non-French light tanks above Tier 3 would have almost nothing meaningful to do.

[TronPaul]

Protip: Don't try to install things while playing World of Tanks. Your game will crash horribly and you will cruise control into the enemy.

The funny part is, that I somehow survived my crash-addled death charge. Was on Ruinberg going down the road in my Type59 when I started installing Teamspeak, which caused WoT to crash. My turret swung around to face backwards, and my tank continued to charge down the road. At this point my friend and I are laughing our asses off, but then an enemy Type59 tracks me and I spin out into a building. Once it automatically repaired, it drove into the building, staying safe until I logged back in. Definitely editing a video together of that insanity.

Edit: Here's just my perspective with black screen when I crash

[AniThyng]

I wonder if it would be better if instead Arty had a higher rof and splash but lower accuracy such that the primary effect is area denial and suppression not outright kill

[The Infidel]

I'm debating if I'm going for the Panther or Tiger at this point. Thankfully I still have to go through the III/IV (loving it!) and the VK 3601, so it will still be a while till I have to decide on that. Going without gold is making it take longer, but at least I'm not spending any money!

VK3601? Can I advise you to go for VK3001(not nice)-->VK3002db(nice) and from that one take both Tiger and Panther. It costs less xp that way if you want both Tiger and Panther. That's what I did. If you only want Tiger, of course, do as you please.

[The Vortex Empire]

I'm debating if I'm going for the Panther or Tiger at this point. Thankfully I still have to go through the III/IV (loving it!) and the VK 3601, so it will still be a while till I have to decide on that. Going without gold is making it take longer, but at least I'm not spending any money!

VK3601? Can I advise you to go for VK3001(not nice)-->VK3002db(nice) and from that one take both Tiger and Panther. It costs less xp that way if you want both Tiger and Panther. That's what I did. If you only want Tiger, of course, do as you please.

You can research the 3002 DB from the 3601, so I'd recommend sticking with that route to avoid the 3001H.

[xthetenth]

I wonder if it would be better if instead Arty had a higher rof and splash but lower accuracy such that the primary effect is area denial and suppression not outright kill

It might be better for random play, but for organized play I think that might comprehensively screw up some of the game balance. I've gotten picked off in a T-50-2 enough times by a T92 chucking a big ol' can of splash damage to detrack me followed by an E-50 knocking me out to have a sneaking suspicion that more splash would ruin scouts' days. I've also got a replay of a clan wars game where a friend dropped a batchat and two -2s, the latter of which were done with near misses splashing. The main disadvantage I'd see for random play is that I think it'd lead to an increased willingness for arty to let shells fly and reduce the effectiveness of staying maneuvering as a form of arty defense while stuck in the open. The real problem there is that it tends to reduce the role of skill on both ends of the arty equation, with the artillerist seeing less return for good prediction and aim and more for bad, while the target driver remaining evasive doesn't reduce the chances of hitting him for large damage. I'd like to see test results for increasing accuracy and leaving splash the same but making direct hits a bit less catastrophic if anything, to make the artillerist's aim matter more by reducing the chances of random scatter without being an overall buff to arty.


For the German tier sixes, my advice is go through the 3601 to the 3002 DB and from there go to the Tiger and Panther, and if you want TDs or sweet Maus awesomeness, go through the 3001P into the Tiger (P). The 3601 is the best route to the Tiger or Panther tree if you're doing those alone, otherwise with the Ferdi being a link from the Tiger (P) to the TDs, the Tiger (P) is looking like a real tempting hub for the German tree. (that link will be coming with the patch probably on Monday)