Starcraft 2 discussion thread

[Stofsk]

Well I just finished playing the campaign. I felt the story was a bit bog standard to be honest, didn't take any chances, and even had a nice happy ending. Other than that, the campaign structure was quite clever. I liked how you had a finite number of credits which meant you could only make a certain number of armoury/merc purchases. The science upgrades were different, you get them all, and you still have left over points to cash in. Maybe that could have been better balanced? But some of those science upgrades were fuuuuuuuuucking good. Orbital drop pods for marines? Sweet.

To be honest, I always went for the tech reactor. Hallo, three spaceports building six units at once.....Really, you do not even need to have a second factory anymore.

The reactor is a good idea, and I was tempted to get the tech reactor. But I also wanted to try the drop pods. If I play through the campaign again I might go tech reactor instead.

I played on Hard on at least 10 missions (apparently I got that as an achievement), but some missions were just an exercise in frustration on anything other than normal. The Dig was a pain in the ass on Hard, because that stupid laser cannon would always start rotating back to firing on the doors rather than on the army of archons/immortals/giant protoss warbot thingies that were approaching my bases. (I figured out you can queue up multiple targets with it) But the most frustrating aspect to it was trying to get the achievement - using the laser to burn down a number of protoss buildings. The challenge was getting a spotter to get onto the high ground. I ended up building a massive army which tended to get massacred quite regularly to the protoss defenders.

Heheh. You really only need the shift key to queue up kill orders. Other than that, two bunkers and four siegetanks at each entrance plus 6 vikings are enough to defend the base against anything, really.

What do you put in your bunkers? I had a marauder and four marines as my standard, but I'm wondering if two marauders are better. I got the bunker guns as an upgrade instead of increasing its hitpoints. Two marauders would have more damage (can't stim marines when they're bunkered up... for some reason) I would think, but their most useful attribute is the concussive blast that slows enemies, allowing the tanks to blast them to smithereens.

(does anyone use firebats lol)

Thanas you magnificent sonofabitch, if you clocked this game on brutal, I salute you.

Thanks. I played the first campaign on hard and didn't have any real trouble with it (except with the do not lose a building part on The Evacuation and Zero Hour). That one I had to restart.

Normal is really easy, hard punishes you if you're not paying close attention. I liked to do some of the missions on hard for the challenge and for getting the achievements (which of course, make things harder, as you're not just focused on completing the mission but also fucking around whilst doing it to get that worthless achievement picture). It got to the point where I was shouting at my computer monitor in frustration because I'm not adept at micromanagment.

[Zed]

Thanas - I've been trying to get the Zero Hour achievement on hard - killing the four hatcheries. So far it hasn't worked out. Do you have any advice?

[Stofsk]

Thanas - I've been trying to get the Zero Hour achievement on hard - killing the four hatcheries. So far it hasn't worked out. Do you have any advice?

Send in the marines.

That's... pretty much it. Make sure you have a squad of medics nipping their heels and shooting them with that green healing magic shit.

There's three in the south-west, two-three to the north, and probably more in the North east. I went in with a squad of marines with medics and other units and took out the three hatcheries to the south-west, then went up north and took out one hatchery there and then hightailed it back to base.

[Thanas]

What do you put in your bunkers? I had a marauder and four marines as my standard, but I'm wondering if two marauders are better. I got the bunker guns as an upgrade instead of increasing its hitpoints. Two marauders would have more damage (can't stim marines when they're bunkered up... for some reason) I would think, but their most useful attribute is the concussive blast that slows enemies, allowing the tanks to blast them to smithereens.

One marauder, 4 marines. With two medics standing by at each entrance to make sure the units survive if the bunkers get taken out.

(does anyone use firebats lol)

If I am defending against swarming Zergs, I always put one firebat in the most exposed bunker instead of a marauder. Good for killing the zerglings, which allows your marines to concentrate on roaches and hydralisks.

And it is especially worth it on the Outbreak mission.

[Zed]

About how many do you need, though? I managed to get slaughtered quite a few times.

[Thanas]

First, your previous question:

Thanas - I've been trying to get the Zero Hour achievement on hard - killing the four hatcheries. So far it hasn't worked out. Do you have any advice?

That one requires you to do the following:

a) Build two barracks. Two with reactos for marines, the other with tech lab for medics.
b) Do not build more bunkers. Two for each entrance. The rest, put in a mobile force of marines and medics. You should always produce four marines + 1 medic at the same time. If your micromanagement of resources is not up to it, build 2m+1medic.
c) At the 12 or 10 minutes, put your mobile forces together and attack the northern hatchery (the one where the ground is even). You should be able to kill the two hatcheries there. Then pull back your force and rebuilt en masse.
d) At the five minute mark, take half your mobile force (should be close in size to the previous one since you can easily double the marines there)
Then attack the northern hatcheries again - which the Zerg have rebuilt by then.

About how many do you need, though? I managed to get slaughtered quite a few times.

If you are only building bunkers, four for each entrance, with 2-3 SCVs standing by for a repair at all times. At least that lets you survive on brutal (it is easier if you pull back to the highground entirely, but that won't give you the achievement regarding not loosing or salvaging a structure).

[The Yosemite Bear]

Still couldn't find all three hatcheries on that map. (grr), not that it matters, I've got plenty of research done this time around.

[Zed]

First, your previous question:

Thanas - I've been trying to get the Zero Hour achievement on hard - killing the four hatcheries. So far it hasn't worked out. Do you have any advice?

That one requires you to do the following:

a) Build two barracks. Two with reactos for marines, the other with tech lab for medics.
b) Do not build more bunkers. Two for each entrance. The rest, put in a mobile force of marines and medics. You should always produce four marines + 1 medic at the same time. If your micromanagement of resources is not up to it, build 2m+1medic.
c) At the 12 or 10 minutes, put your mobile forces together and attack the northern hatchery (the one where the ground is even). You should be able to kill the two hatcheries there. Then pull back your force and rebuilt en masse.
d) At the five minute mark, take half your mobile force (should be close in size to the previous one since you can easily double the marines there)
Then attack the northern hatcheries again - which the Zerg have rebuilt by then.

Ah. I kept trying to assault the high ground hatcheries to get to four. Thanks!

[Alferd Packer]

I play Terran, and my standard open runs like this:

Supply depot on 10
Barracks on 11
Gas on 11
Orbital command on 14
2 marines
Tech lab
Second barracks on 17
Supply Depot on 18
Reactor
2nd gas

Then I start pumping Marines and Marauders, whille getting concussive shells, stim, and shields, in that order. I'll usually have enough for a pretty hard push around the 10-11 minute mark. I usually time it so that stim finishes just as I run up the ramp. Shields come handy if I get pushed back, because the next batch of Marines will be that much stronger, and, at that point, usually backed up by medivacs.

Against Protoss, if you see Colossi, you need to get Vikings as the ideal. If you manage to get the Colossi out of position, you can beat them with a lot of Marauders, but they will invariably melt your Marines with horrifying speed.

[Skylon]

one week in and Im already sick of the multi player.

I play as terrans and the first thing I find is that they are woefully underpowered... Unless they live long enough to build Thors
Basically 80% of the games I play I am either bum rushed by Zerg 5min in, or I am wiped out by mass Void ships form Protoss.
The fact that we no longer have a decent land unit that can go after air is a pain. Building Vikings requites massive resources and, unless fully upgraded, they are so easy to take down.

I really want to play a good Terran game, but unless I am playing against someone who doesn't attack in the first 10min, I usually don't have a chance.

Me and 3 other friends partied up and played some 4v4 games last night. The rate my allies pumped out Protoss Void Rays was absurd. Actually the games we won tended to be me and the other terran getting bum rushed, barely holding out, while the two protoss pumped out void rays, flew them to the enemy bases and raped their command centers. The games we lost, we got overwhelmed on the rush (I've noticed Protoss players are tending to sneak a pylon near your base, build their version of barracks and start pumping out zealots).

The mystique of the Thor has kinda worn out for me. They're pricey as hell, especially in Gas. I had some success with a shit-load of Vikings, but they need to really be used en-masse.

I'm going through the campaign on Hard and its a bitch, but I'm having fun. I'm also pleased the Blizzard character stupidity isn't as bad as Warcraft 3 and that I have some choice. Warcraft 3 tended to have lots of "why am I doing this dumb shit mission...so Arthas can become evil?"

[Crossroads Inc.]

Me and 3 other friends partied up and played some 4v4 games last night. The rate my allies pumped out Protoss Void Rays was absurd. Actually the games we won tended to be me and the other terran getting bum rushed, barely holding out, while the two protoss pumped out void rays, flew them to the enemy bases and raped their command centers. The games we lost, we got overwhelmed on the rush (I've noticed Protoss players are tending to sneak a pylon near your base, build their version of barracks and start pumping out zealots).

I got partnered with a protoss player this morning who freely admited that all anyone needs to do to win is pump out Void Rays. Because lets face it, rarely do void rays take out your army, they just fly in, rape your workers, and then when you are running around take you out a bit at a time.

Against Collsi I have actually found tanks to be devastatingly effective, but its hard to use them since they are only good in siege mode. Thors I have found can outclass a BC in terms of effectiveness even though they can't fly. They are cheaper then a BC and you can build them much faster then BC's tech wise.

The Protoss pylon trick really does bug me though. Zerg get Cannels that can spawn an army inside your base, Protoss get warp pylons that can pump out units at yoru doorsteep and terrans get.... Medivac ships?

[Skylon]

The Protoss pylon trick really does bug me though. Zerg get Cannels that can spawn an army inside your base, Protoss get warp pylons that can pump out units at yoru doorsteep and terrans get.... Medivac ships?

What is throwing me is I really do not recall seeing this tactic in the first Starcraft. Maybe because Zealots were so damn strong it didn't matter that they had to march across the board (they seem a little easier to kill in this game, but that does you jack shit if they are at your doorstep). Is it due to the layouts of maps that this has become a tactic of choice for zealot rushes?

I suppose Marines could do the same...but if so, that really feels too much like power-gaming.

[Thanas]

How to counter the pylon run of the protoss:

As a terran, you can always build a barracks faster than the Protoss. Therefore, get two or three marines as fast as posible and then take down his Pylon. Especially Reapers are devestating against it.

EDIT: Against Void Rays, has anybody of you ever built mass vikings via the reactor? Six of them should be able to easily take out the void rays (same with mass marines).

[Norade]

Me and 3 other friends partied up and played some 4v4 games last night. The rate my allies pumped out Protoss Void Rays was absurd. Actually the games we won tended to be me and the other terran getting bum rushed, barely holding out, while the two protoss pumped out void rays, flew them to the enemy bases and raped their command centers. The games we lost, we got overwhelmed on the rush (I've noticed Protoss players are tending to sneak a pylon near your base, build their version of barracks and start pumping out zealots).

I got partnered with a protoss player this morning who freely admited that all anyone needs to do to win is pump out Void Rays. Because lets face it, rarely do void rays take out your army, they just fly in, rape your workers, and then when you are running around take you out a bit at a time.

Against Collsi I have actually found tanks to be devastatingly effective, but its hard to use them since they are only good in siege mode. Thors I have found can outclass a BC in terms of effectiveness even though they can't fly. They are cheaper then a BC and you can build them much faster then BC's tech wise.

The Protoss pylon trick really does bug me though. Zerg get Cannels that can spawn an army inside your base, Protoss get warp pylons that can pump out units at yoru doorsteep and terrans get.... Medivac ships?

I don't personally play at a high level but even I can tell you that massed Voids are countered by Vikings, Marines, and plain old Turrets all of which are cheaper and build faster than voids. If you have the person you're playing scouted then you can shut that plan down no problem especially if you harass them and prevent them from simply massing a ton of units to throw at you.

The Colossus is also countered by the Viking and Void Rays and Colossus rush seem to be big issues for lower level players. Watching higher level games on youtube, or simply watching a replay myself, I never see issues with single unit spam or not having a counter to a specific unit.

Also if they can get a Pylon and a Gateway built at your base before you have a Marine built to kill the Probe then you're over matched anyway.

[Alferd Packer]

one week in and Im already sick of the multi player.

I play as terrans and the first thing I find is that they are woefully underpowered... Unless they live long enough to build Thors
Basically 80% of the games I play I am either bum rushed by Zerg 5min in, or I am wiped out by mass Void ships form Protoss.
The fact that we no longer have a decent land unit that can go after air is a pain. Building Vikings requites massive resources and, unless fully upgraded, they are so easy to take down.

I really want to play a good Terran game, but unless I am playing against someone who doesn't attack in the first 10min, I usually don't have a chance.

Me and 3 other friends partied up and played some 4v4 games last night. The rate my allies pumped out Protoss Void Rays was absurd. Actually the games we won tended to be me and the other terran getting bum rushed, barely holding out, while the two protoss pumped out void rays, flew them to the enemy bases and raped their command centers. The games we lost, we got overwhelmed on the rush (I've noticed Protoss players are tending to sneak a pylon near your base, build their version of barracks and start pumping out zealots).

This highlights the importance of early pressure, especially against Protoss. Their units are expensive, and a Protoss on a single base cannot take huge unit losses like single base Terran can. If you find yourself getting attacked by a dozen Void Rays, you didn't push out soon enough.

Remember, he's cutting his ground army to get those Void Rays out early. He has one Gateway, a Cybernetics Core, and probably 2 Stargates. And that's it. No cannons, and a token ground force. Remember, a single Void Ray is 250 minerals; that's 5 marines to you. And trust me, if your macro is good and you walled off, your marines will wipe his Void Rays out before they even get charged up. At that point, you hurry your ass across the map and rip his base apart. His two zealots and a stalker will be mincemeat before your angry M&M ball. Target the pylons powering his stargates. Even chronoboosted, Void Rays take a long-ass time to come out, and nothing's more satisfying than de-powering a stargate before the unit finishes warping in.

And even if you can't beat him in a fell swoop, you've put him in a bad position. He can either A) stick the Void Rays and try to build up a large force, or B) attempt an expensive and time consuming tech switch.

A Void Ray rush is powerful, but it's pretty much an all-in attempt. If it fails, it is very easy to make a Protoss player pay for it.

[CaptainChewbacca]

What is throwing me is I really do not recall seeing this tactic in the first Starcraft. Maybe because Zealots were so damn strong it didn't matter that they had to march across the board (they seem a little easier to kill in this game, but that does you jack shit if they are at your doorstep). Is it due to the layouts of maps that this has become a tactic of choice for zealot rushes?

I suppose Marines could do the same...but if so, that really feels too much like power-gaming.

This tactic was TEXTBOOK in original starcraft. Only you'd do it with cannons as well as barracks. Sneak a probe in, drop a pylon, and then start walking a line of cannons toward their base. Drop a barracks for backup and you annihilate their infrastructure early on.

[The Yosemite Bear]

ok, the Protoss vs. Zerg 300 stand, help

[The Yosemite Bear]

lets face it, humans have the best simple infantry, and like the commisar would say, a shitload of marines has a quality all it's own.

[ArmorPierce]

What race do you play? I am working on a guide to Zerg if you want to take a look at it. It is more general advice however assuming that you got the basics down.

[Thanas]

ok, the Protoss vs. Zerg 300 stand, help

WTH?

[The Yosemite Bear]

last stand of the protoss suggestions/builds

[Thanas]

Cannons at all chokepoints, colossi en masse. Best to have four at each chokepoint plus a mobile force of immortals/void rays to back them up and defeat hybrids.

[ArmorPierce]

so anyone want to set up some games? Can we make a thread or something with our starcraft 2 names so that we can play with our fellow forum members?

[White Haven]

Feedback ruins the caster-hybrids, so keep a couple High Templars around and hotkeyed.

[Crossroads Inc.]

so anyone want to set up some games? Can we make a thread or something with our starcraft 2 names so that we can play with our fellow forum members?

Oh yeah dude! Id love to play some SC with some fellow SD.neters