FSTGOD1: A Cool Idea

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2004-09-28 01:09am

Imperial Overlord wrote:Yes, I am tired and I stated it poorly. You can beat me up in the near future. Agreed?

I don't want to beat you up, there's no animosity. Anybody who gets worked up and angry over an online debate over the particulars of iron age grain production, even if he's right, is being stupid. All we're saying is that you're wrong about something, and backhanded non-concession concessions aren't the way to go about exiting the debate--which I would consider closed, anyway.

Imperial Overlord · Post by **Imperial Overlord** » 2004-09-28 01:15am

And I think I'm not wrong and will be willing to debate it at another time. I'm just not up to it at the moment and will be catching some zzzs in the near future. I didn't call anyone an idiot and willing to back it up or admit error if anyone else wants to discuss this in the future. I admit that my memories of a university history course aren't going to be enough to convince anyone (I could be lying, I could be mistaken, etcetera, etcetera) to just take my word for it so I am going to need to go digging for supporting evidence. That's not an unreasonable requirement. It's just not going to happen tonight and not on this thread.

frigidmagi · Post by **frigidmagi** » 2004-09-28 02:17am

Damn folks I was just curious to know who went slave and who didn't. Yes, slavery works well in this time period. The WolGars aren't going to get puckered over it, unless the slaves are of WolGar orgin. My nation being the primative tribesmen do not have the inferstucture to practice it.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-28 02:28am

Illian is a pretty progressive society: serfs with heart.
Tear is not a progressive society. It is still a feudal "serfs under lords" affair, but the lower classes are treated like shit. Absolute shit. They have no legal protections. As a matter of fact, there are laws built into the legal system to take away a peasant's rights. For example, a lord can have a peasant executed for no reason at all, and even if a lord does something that goes against every law of the land, a peasant cannot bring charges against him.

Oh, and in terms of alliance, I want to make on thing clear from the start. You cannot ally with the Forsaken. You can ally with Tear or Illian, and probably not both, because they hate each other so much. The Forsaken are hidden. No one knows they exist. Well, everyone has heard the legends of the Forsaken, but they are like the boogey-man. You've heard of em, but its childish or stupid to think they actually exist. As time goes on, people will begin to suspect that there is truth behind the legends, but if someone starts out the game by having an ambassador walk into Tear and telling High Lord Samon that you know he is really Be'lal and you want to negotiate with the Dark One, that ambassador will have his head cut off for slandering a Tairen High Lord, and for being a crazy mofo to top it all off.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-28 02:31am

Metagaming will be dealt with swiftly and harshly.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-28 02:35am

THE FORESAKEN?

NO FUCKING WAY. If you plan on doing anything with them it's going to be game killing. They're pracitically gods at this point.

If you're using them I'm uppping the magic quotient I have significantly.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-28 02:41am

...

Okay, I take it this is something I should be more afraid of than what I gathered from my reading of his OOB? I thought the "break any man," "unbeatable with a sword" and so forth were hyperbole, but if it's not...

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-28 02:42am

Calm down, man. The Rules apply to them:

Everyone, remember this.

Heroic/Legendary characters will be used ONLY like Vampires from STGOD4- as part of cinematic, co-operative scenes and story-advancing moves, like the Kung-Fu Battle or the assassination of Spyder.

So, no Forsaken appearing over Et casting Balefire left and right, ok?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-28 02:46am

Stormbringer wrote:THE FORESAKEN?

NO FUCKING WAY. If you plan on doing anything with them it's going to be game killing. They're pracitically gods at this point.

If you're using them I'm uppping the magic quotient I have significantly.

Im going to be underplaying them. I know Thirdfain has read WoT, and he's keeping an eye on me. Because of their magic power alone I have "great power" status, and remeber, even in WoT these guys aren't battle leaders. They are shadow-hunters and manipulators. Not saying that you can't up your magic capabilities, but those are the things I have in place to power down my side.

Also, my face in the world is Tear and Illian, two rather weak nations with minimal magic power. I am not mage-god here, I just have a bunch of characters who you do NOT want to piss off.

Funny story, though. I was actually planning on using a modified form of the Forsaken in the next STGOD, and it played right into my hands when it turned out to be fantasy-based. I was going to be doing this from Day 1, and when I heard you liked WoT, I was wondering what your reaction would be. PM me or IM if you have any questions/comments/criticism/WTFAREYOUDOING?!, but not now. Now is BEDTIME.

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-28 02:47am

Thirdfain wrote:So, no Forsaken appearing over Et casting Balefire left and right, ok?

Balefire is not even in the OOB. It's too powerful so I didn't give it to myself. Im a reasonable man, neh?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-28 02:50am

Rogue 9 wrote:...

Okay, I take it this is something I should be more afraid of than what I gathered from my reading of his OOB? I thought the "break any man," "unbeatable with a sword" and so forth were hyperbole, but if it's not...

Not really hyperbole. You can have a hero or two somewhat on par with the Forsaken, and we can work out what happens if there is a dual. If you read WoT, as powerful as they are, they do die in numbers that are kind of uncomfortable for me right about now...

But again, these guys are really my ONLY power. Tear and Illian are nice, but they aren't even on the same side (once sides are chozen.) My two nations stalemate each other in the grand scheme of things, so my entire power is just thirteen people who can't be everywhere at once.

Again, any comments or ciriticisms are welcomed. Im trying to make this fair for everyone while still playing the characters I love so verra verra much.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-28 02:51am

Still, methinks there's going to be a silver dragon on my flag to correspond to the one that's now in my OOB after seeing this exchange... I'll have the beginnings of the military section of my OOB up tomorrow. For now, it's almost 2 am. Sleeeeeep...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-28 02:52am

Okay, well I guess that's acceptable enough. I am a bit nervous about it because even with out balefire they're hella powerful. Definitely way, way over the top. Unkilllable (for all intents and purposes) and with wicked magic and stuff. And Ishamael has manipulation skills to make Palpatine look like a neophyte.

Might I suggest if you're going to use them, stick to the lesser Foresaken?

Bugsby · Post by **Bugsby** » 2004-09-28 02:56am

Stormbringer wrote:Okay, well I guess that's acceptable enough. I am a bit nervous about it because even with out balefire they're hella powerful. Definitely way, way over the top. Unkilllable (for all intents and purposes) and with wicked magic and stuff. And Ishamael has manipulation skills to make Palpatine look like a neophyte.

Might I suggest if you're going to use them, stick to the lesser Foresaken?

Like I said, I will be underplaying them. I am perfectly aware of what they can do in WoT: They can do half of that in FSTGOD. And I will have a mod's eye on me the whole time. I really want to make this fair and have a bit of fun with my characters. And remeber, now matter how powerful a guy is, he can always die to an arrow in the back or a knife in the dark.

I've got power, but I am NOT going to lean on it, even though I possibly could. It wouldn't be fun for me or anyone else that way.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-28 02:58am

I'll point out he traded *20* regiments And a cohesive military for an unusually strong set of named characters.

It's been approved. Having a Shadow Power working to screw everyone up is great.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2004-09-28 03:02am

Bugsby wrote:Like I said, I will be underplaying them. I am perfectly aware of what they can do in WoT: They can do half of that in FSTGOD. And I will have a mod's eye on me the whole time. I really want to make this fair and have a bit of fun with my characters.

I know that. I also know that even half power for them can be devestating enough. Especially the high end Foresaken like Ishydin.

Bugsby wrote:And remeber, now matter how powerful a guy is, he can always die to an arrow in the back or a knife in the dark.

Given that Ishamael had to be stabbed with magical weapon and half immolated before he even died, I'd say no. And that was after surviving two previously vicious encounters.

Of course even that didn't put him out for good.

Bugsby wrote:I've got power, but I am NOT going to lean on it, even though I possibly could. It wouldn't be fun for me or anyone else that way.

I know, I also know how easy it is to tip the balance.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-28 09:03am

Once again, I haven't read the WoT series, so I don't know how much of a bunch of badasses the Forsaken are supposed to be. However, since Bugsby did give up twenty "power units" for them, and split his remaining forces into two nations that absolutely hate each other, I'd be willing to let the Forsaken be fairly badass here, but even they will follow the rules of the game. If I feel that they have been abused even in the slightest, Bugsby and I will have a little chat. Thus far, Bugsby has been a pretty fair and reasonable STGODer, so I'm willing to give this a shot, as I don't think it will cause too many problems.

On the flipside, I will also have little chats with anyone claiming to see through this deception without having worked for it. When covert operations start up, I will be throwing a few red herrings into the mix...not every covert op will be player-initiated. I will also make sure that every covert op can eventually be unraveled eventually.

Meanwhile, if Bugsby says his guys can die to an assassin's blade or a pathfinder's arrow, I'm going to take that at face value and the WoT books be damned. As far as I'm concerned, Bugsby's Forsaken are based off the concept of the original Forsaken, not a direct transfer, and the same goes for anything based on any original series.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-28 10:27am

For anyone who has questions about the way combat will work, you might want to take a look over here, where Gamespy has put up a very nice strategy guide for Rome: Total War. Combat will be fairly similar to the combat described there, with obvious exceptions made for battlemages and wondrous creatures.

Most importantly, please read the sections concerning Morale. Troop Morale will be enforced for everyone. Yes, elite units will have excellent morale, but even that can be chipped away by being surrounded by enemies on three sides while being repeatedly charged by cavalry in the rear and bombarded by skirmishers from afar. I don't want to see "OMG my troops are unbreakable WTF I pwn j00!"

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-28 10:32am

posted my oob

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2004-09-28 11:26am

added my map

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-09-28 01:43pm

Hey, Pablo, seeing as how we're going to be "alone" in Africa, how do you want to partition it out?

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2004-09-28 01:51pm

A little more clarification from on high. Thirdfain and I have been talking, and we've come to the following agreement on regiment sizes and strengths. A regiment is equal to the following:

1,000 Heavy Infantry OR 1,000 Pikemen
2,000 Light Infantry OR 2,000 Skirmishers (bows, slings, javelins, that sort of thing)
500 Light Cav OR 500 Heavy Cav

These are average numbers, with average equipment and average training. From there, you can "purchase" training, equipment, and magic support (and wondrous steeds for cavalry) with regiment "points".

As far as magic is concerned, the average force consists of 5% low-level magic users, primarily battlefield healers or other relatively low-end effects (in other words, nothing that will dramatically alter the course of a battle). Please note the "or" in the above statement (in other words, you will have to choose, you don't get all-in-ones for free, you'll have to pay for it, even if just a bit).

Any magic above that level will need to be paid for in regiments. Considerable magic support for a regiment is considered to be worth one regiment "point".

For example:

Bob the Gnomish Warlord of Bobylonia is building a regiment of heavy infantry (1,000 strong). He wants them to have very good training (0.5) and very good equipment (0.5), which makes them "elite" (capable of taking on 2-1 odds against average foes). In addition to the 5% natural casters (which he has chosen to be medics, since his guys are just to badass to leave to die), he has spent another full regiment on considerable magical support, with mages capable of casting spells to help defend against skirmishers and enhance the fighting prowess of the regiment. Now Bob is ready to kick the asses of everyone who said that Heavy Gnomish Infantry was a stupid idea.

And so on and so forth, for any combinations you so choose. I hope that this helps everyone to make the very best armies that they can, and please, remember, gnomish heavy infantry is a stupid idea.

Thirdfain · Post by **Thirdfain** » 2004-09-28 01:53pm

I love the image of little 3-foot tall iron pots with little arms and legs sticking out running around and stabbing people in the shins with teeny pikes.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2004-09-28 01:56pm

Thirdfain wrote:I love the image of little 3-foot tall iron pots with little arms and legs stickout out running around and stabbing people in the shins with teeny pikes.

*Loads up rockets with greek fire warheads* I do too. FIRE!

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2004-09-28 02:05pm

Mine are four feet tall, thank you very much.