World of Tanks

[Skywalker_T-65]

I've noticed an unusual thing while playing assault on Karelia...the attacking team stays and covers their 'base' while the defending team Zerg Rushes. It is highly unusual...

[Vendetta]

I've noticed an unusual thing while playing assault on Karelia...the attacking team stays and covers their 'base' while the defending team Zerg Rushes. It is highly unusual...

Now, I've only played this a little, but I find that's what usually happens in Assault matches. If at least 50% of the defending team don't file out into the middle of the map like lemmings I start to think they're AFK.


Turns out that objectives slightly more complicated than "shoot all the mans" are too hard to grasp for many people. Who knew?

(Apparently at least one game mode that was in testing where only certain tanks counted for cap and they had to be protected was dropped because internet randoms couldn't grasp it)

[Skywalker_T-65]

Its not the Zerg Rushing that is odd. Its the fact that its the reverse and the attacking team stays by their spawn (and I know their playing since they do move...just not to attack).

[Simon_Jester]

It depends. I've seen a LOT of defense map battles where the defending team advances, but not very far. As a rule, the spawn point for the defenders is itself not good terrain- often it's commanded by high ground, or on top of a convex hill that you can't effectively cover the objective from, or so cramped it's a killing ground for artillery.

The catch is that this 'good' defensive terrain is often hundreds of meters from the spawn, so by the time defending heavies get there, the attacking light and medium tanks are already there and a "take up defensive positions" turns seamlessly into an "approach to contact" battle.

[weemadando]

I was playing defender as a Marder on Sand River and ended up attacking the enemy artillery as an assault gun simply because hte flank I'd gone to defend was ignored, so I plinked some scouts and then played assault gun.

It happens a lot.

[AniThyng]

I had an assault match in Malinovka once where somehow half my team made it to the flag while the remaining half survivors of the red team made it to our spawn. We then spent the next five minutes moving into defense position/capping while they rushed back. Had a good laugh about how now we're defending in an assault match before we capped and won.

[Zinegata]

I've noticed an unusual thing while playing assault on Karelia...the attacking team stays and covers their 'base' while the defending team Zerg Rushes. It is highly unusual...

Karelia is a bit weird, but aggressive action on the part of the defending team is crucial to winning it.

The key ground to attacking the defender's base is seizing the northern and southern hills (the Team 1 & 2 bases in regular battles). In a head-on match the Defenders tend to not do well there, but if they can control the swamp area (particularly the defilade right beneath the cliff of the attacking team's base), they have an excellent chance to flank and knock out attackers on both wings.

So matches tend to have the defender trying to take the swamp / defilade, while the attackers try to clear them from what area before making a concerted push against the north/south hill.

[Vendetta]

Plus half the attacking team on Karelia will invariably camp the hill next to their spawn becayse hey, free hill. Which is fine for arty (and maybe a TD), but when there's three arties, two heavies, and a medium up there someone needs to be getting off their fat ass and pushing the base.

But then as noted, internet people are not great at the videogames. (Srsly, I've had a game on Malinkova where half the enemy team literally filed across the map one by one and got blowed up in turn, I mean okay, the first two or so might be committed to action, but by five or six and the lesson "if you do this you will explode" hasn't sunk in?, and another where I rolled my 30HP of loltraktor back to the cap circle and killed four guys singlehanded, taking the game from 5 vs 2 to 1vs 2, blocking an 80% cap and turning a loss into a draw because they were T1s zooming around at max speed and their accuracy was for shit because of it whilst I stood still in the open with my damaged engine and killed them one by one)

[Simon_Jester]

Those T1 tanks may have not known about the accuracy thing; you can usually graduate out of a Tier 1 tank after a few hours of gameplay, after all. Or they may not have learned yet that being able to shoot back effectively is always a better defense than dodging, except for high tier light tanks.

At higher tiers people have no excuse for being complete newbies though, so yeah.

Plus, you have to play a map several times before patterns start to sink in. "Assault Karelia" is a specific map type that only happens about 2-5% of the time, tops. I've played it enough times and am (I like to think) quick enough on the uptake that I've seen the pattern. So are you. Xthetenth had it all figured out in like five minutes.

But I bet there are a lot of people out there who just haven't played the game enough times in the past few months to figure out what they're doing is stupid. WoT players do learn eventually- ever notice how at about Tier IV and higher nobody charges across the field at Malinovka, unless they're a dedicated scout or something weird is going on? By that time we've learned our lesson.

[Vendetta]

Those T1 tanks may have not known about the accuracy thing; you can usually graduate out of a Tier 1 tank after a few hours of gameplay,

You'd have to be pretty uncurious about interface elements to wonder what the circle on the screen was and why it got smaller if you stopped...

And they'd had enough nous to flank round the north end of the map and come at the cap from the back.

So they weren't total noobs. Total noobs single file across the open fields between the two caps, after all. (though there's apparently a new fetish for crawling along the edge of the lake, which at least shields you from fire from most people, but also makes you dog slow and exposes your top to the north shore).

[Skywalker_T-65]

I don't play in my loltraktor that much any more...but it is funny to see the noobs flail around and die. They only manage to take me down when I get swarmed by like half their team.

And Vendetta...that is exactly what I was talking about with Karelia. Whenever I'm on the assaulting side, half my team will camp the hill, and refuse to move no matter how much we tell them that WE are the attackers, not the defenders.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Its official...I'm in love with the 3601/L-70 combo. That thing is an angel of death if you know how to use it well. Especially since it can bounce up to stock KV-1S shells.

[Simon_Jester]

Those T1 tanks may have not known about the accuracy thing; you can usually graduate out of a Tier 1 tank after a few hours of gameplay,

You'd have to be pretty uncurious about interface elements to wonder what the circle on the screen was and why it got smaller if you stopped...

You'd wonder, but it takes

Look on the bright side: I bet at least one of those noobs learned a valuable lesson from missing you while you calmly drilled them to death.

And they'd had enough nous to flank round the north end of the map and come at the cap from the back.

So they weren't total noobs. Total noobs single file across the open fields between the two caps, after all. (though there's apparently a new fetish for crawling along the edge of the lake, which at least shields you from fire from most people, but also makes you dog slow and exposes your top to the north shore).

That's not uncommon. It's actually a good way to crawl up into short range of the cap and maybe get some spotting done- IF your tank has good off-road performance. And IF your team can keep any snipers from parking on the northeast side of the lake.

It usually doesn't work well, but it works well enough to be worth a try for certain tanks and individuals.

[Jub]

When I'm a TD on Karelia as the attacker I ether take the hill or, if I see a ton of people going hill alreadty, peek around a side and wait for targets to roll into view. The worst is when the attacking team advances to the two hills to the side of the map, and then they just stop. Everybody just gets cold feet, arty has no targets, and then your team slowly gets ground down.

[Vendetta]

That's not uncommon. It's actually a good way to crawl up into short range of the cap and maybe get some spotting done- IF your tank has good off-road performance. And IF your team can keep any snipers from parking on the northeast side of the lake.

It usually doesn't work well, but it works well enough to be worth a try for certain tanks and individuals.

Yeah. Not clever when six or seven guys try it at once though. It only works at all if people don't notice you doing it, or have more pressing matters to deal with like the rest of your team lobbing shells at them.

[xthetenth]

I just go hill on malinovka because it's the quickest way into the fight and I will always prefer to fight than stand off, more efficient use of time and all that. Lowbie teams make me cry though. It's depressing some of the stuff that is so obviously wrong that you see. Like on malinovka a while back I saw a sherman that'd broken the berms between him and the enemy just so he could pull forward into the front of the bush.

And yeah, I've played a bunch of tanks so when I got thrown onto Karelia defense for example, I went south and I looked and realized that spot I favor is amazing if you've got good gun depression because it combines a hull down and easy access to artillery cover. There's a lot of landscape reading and the like that only really comes with playing multiple lines of tanks, and it generally comes more slowly than a lot of the other important tanking skills like when to stop and shoot, what is artillery cover and basic brawling and the like.

[Simon_Jester]

I just go hill on malinovka because it's the quickest way into the fight and I will always prefer to fight than stand off, more efficient use of time and all that. Lowbie teams make me cry though. It's depressing some of the stuff that is so obviously wrong that you see. Like on malinovka a while back I saw a sherman that'd broken the berms between him and the enemy just so he could pull forward into the front of the bush.

Was the bush far enough in front of the berm to block his view?

Those berms are nice, but the taller your tank is the less helpful they are, because they cover less of your hull against the first shot.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Some of them are, but I don't know which one he shot.

Also...T-28 is annoying...it is so BIG but not with enough armor. I am going to be so glad to get out of it and into the KV.

[Simon_Jester]

I think the T-28 is good training for sniping tanks and medium tactics in general. At higher tiers, you'll find that your tank is very penetrable to most enemy guns. At best the gun mantlet and maybe hull front can bounce shots. And you don't have the hit points to soak up a lot of fire either. So there are a lot of benefits to getting an accurate, quick-firing gun and chewing up the enemy at ranges over 200 meters where you're actually hard to hit.

[Jub]

I enjoy fighting bad T-28 drivers who think they're still driving a T-46 and do crazy things like hang their tank off the middle rise on Mines. Of course I hate when they're driven well and you're getting filled with holes from their top gun with little chance to retailiate before you're up in smoke.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I know how to play it, I just keep getting stuck in high-tier battles where sniping isn't much use. That being said, I'm nearly to the KV, so its a bit redundant to complain.

[Jub]

I know how to play it, I just keep getting stuck in high-tier battles where sniping isn't much use. That being said, I'm nearly to the KV, so its a bit redundant to complain.

Even without the KV-2 turret the KV is a solid tank. That armor has made a few of my tanks cry already. I can only imagine what it was like with that 107 at tier 5.

[xthetenth]

I just go hill on malinovka because it's the quickest way into the fight and I will always prefer to fight than stand off, more efficient use of time and all that. Lowbie teams make me cry though. It's depressing some of the stuff that is so obviously wrong that you see. Like on malinovka a while back I saw a sherman that'd broken the berms between him and the enemy just so he could pull forward into the front of the bush.

Was the bush far enough in front of the berm to block his view?

Those berms are nice, but the taller your tank is the less helpful they are, because they cover less of your hull against the first shot.

It didn't have to be, he was in the only three feet of the berm where he'd have to break the berm to be able to see through the bush. There's also the minor fact that if he did stay back to where he couldn't see through the bush he wouldn't get lit when he fired because the bushes you can see through are the same ones you lose the bonus from when you fire. (That's actually worth some emphasis. If you're hiding behind a bush and have other spotters, pull back till it becomes opaque if you can so you keep the bush's camo when you fire).

[LadyTevar]

OK, this thread is massively over the normal limit for Threads. I'm going to lock it and let you guys have a new thread to play in.