World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King

[Rahvin]

I love being a hybrid class.

I'm healing through Heroics over and over again every night, and I've basically compelted my pre-Naxx healing set (over 1700 SP, over 37% Holy Light crit, mana-regen meta gem with mana-efficiency glyphs and as much Int as I could find). In so doing, I come across a significant amount of other plate (and sometimes mail) gear that nobody wants and which would work perfectly for Retribution or Protection. I tend to take these items rather than having them sharded.

This means that I have a very Heroic-capable Ret set already, with a nearly-Heroic-capable prot set that I'm still working on. I'm at least Revered with every faction other than Sons of Hodir, and I'm working on getting Exalted with Ebon Blade now (already Exalted with Argent Crusade). With a simple respec, I'm capable of filling virtually any role in the game with a single character.

That is badass.

I'm sticking with healing for now, of course. My guild is starting regular Naxx runs tonight, and hopefully a 25-man Naxx raid this weekend. Hopefully I'll get some decent drops - there are certainly plenty of bosses in Naxx to drop some good shit, and I'm the only Healadin, so all that spellpower plate is mine if I want it.

I doubt I'll get the chance to tank Naxx any time soon, because my guild actually has a decent number of tanks already. I might get the chance to try out Ret, which would be fun. I'm fickle - I tend to enjoy one role for a month or two, and then get sick of it and want to try a different one, which means playing a hybrid is perfect for me.

[Teleros]

Later this week I'm gonna farm all the new protection potions in icecrown, should be fun.

Got the lot a few weeks back, wasn't that bad actually (makes a change) .

In other news, we got Sartharion with two adds down tonight, and I'm considering a temporary server transfer to get the whole Scarab Lord thing done. Current guild will let me rejoin, but not sure about a raiding position if I do it...

[Rahvin]

Chewie, what did you need to do yo get the Frost Prot cauldrons? Are they just discoveries? I'm at 435 Alchemy but I don't know those recipes, and I can think of several cases where a Frost Prot potion would be extremely handy.

[White Haven]

Don't do it, Tel. They disabled acquisition of the Black Qiraji Battle Tank with 3.0.

[Teleros]

You sure about that? I know a few people have transferred to get them apparently.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Chewie, what did you need to do yo get the Frost Prot cauldrons? Are they just discoveries? I'm at 435 Alchemy but I don't know those recipes, and I can think of several cases where a Frost Prot potion would be extremely handy.

Once you get the recipe for the Major *TYPE* Protection Potion, simply spam the recipe until you get a discovery. The problem is, while Nature, Holy, and Shadow are farmable by open world mobs, fire is only available INSIDE Arcatraz from mobs and the boss, and Frost is only available from the boss of Mana Tombs (about a 20% drop on Heroic). It really sucks that frost is the hardest to get, given its needed most in northrend. The only thing is, there is no Holy Cauldron, for whatever reason it doesn't exist.

So, I went and farmed all the drops (I already had fire) they drop at about 1-2%, then I went to the AH and bought a bunch of mats and started making them. It was cheap, now that primals cost almost nothing. It didn't take me more than 5 or 6 tries to learn the cauldron, and in two cases I learned it on the first try. I don't think there are cauldron-like discoveries available for the northrend Mighty Protection Potions, but that doesn't mean it won't change.

[Teleros]

The only thing is, there is no Holy Cauldron, for whatever reason it doesn't exist.

Hardly enough Holy damage out there to merit it I guess.

I don't think there are cauldron-like discoveries available for the northrend Mighty Protection Potions, but that doesn't mean it won't change.

Not seen any sign of them so far.

[Teleros]

Bah, can't edit. Anyway, proof that you can still transfer realms to get the Scarab Lord achievement: Ajunix's Armoury profile (priest from my server).

[Broomstick]

Really dumb question (especially from someone who has been playing two years and has a level 80 and goes on raids)

When someone says "What is your DPS" what bleeding number are they really asking for? My base damage? Where do I find that? My damage buffed to the max? What?

So far I've done well with "hit things until they fall over dead" and "get better weapons and armor so you can hit harder" but I feel like an idiot when someone asks that question and I go "Duh........"

Um, no, I'm not heavily into theorycrafting and such, why do you ask?

[Minischoles]

Really dumb question (especially from someone who has been playing two years and has a level 80 and goes on raids)

When someone says "What is your DPS" what bleeding number are they really asking for? My base damage? Where do I find that? My damage buffed to the max? What?

So far I've done well with "hit things until they fall over dead" and "get better weapons and armor so you can hit harder" but I feel like an idiot when someone asks that question and I go "Duh........"

Um, no, I'm not heavily into theorycrafting and such, why do you ask?

Generally when people ask this question they expect an answer from a boss such as Patchwerk, where theres no moving about, nothing to avoid or any special mechanic, its just pure nuke from start to finish. If you're not that far in raiding yet, you can just hit on a training dummy solo for a minute using something like Recount/damage meter to measure how much damage you're doing solo, you scale up depending on if its a 10man or 25man.

Although the real answer is pretty much what you've given. If things die fast enough your healers don't go OOM and the you don't pull off the tank you're doing fine.

[White Haven]

Which works fine for the kiddy stuff, but once you start dealing with hard-enrage timers and burn phases and such, 'enough' isn't enough anymore. General rule of thumb is once you hit ~2000 DPS, people don't complain anymore. Much below that, and you start having trouble getting serious invites and/or are the first on the chopping block if the raid DPS is low enough to cause enrage wipes. Below 1500 or so and you'll more or less be laughed at. The comment I always hate having to make is 'This looks like a level 70 raid from the DPS,' which is really frustrating for people who're doing what they need to be doing.

[Broomstick]

Ah, I see - I'd need to load an add-on. Well, not going to happen, then, since my machine is already running slow enough and anything above the bare minimum I need to run the game is just not a good thing.

As a matter of fact, I AM that far into raiding, although not at the top level. I haven't worried about it since my guild knows my competence and I do get invited along. I guess what cheeses me off is that we recently gained some new members, a few of which are real tools and like to brag about he length of their peni-- >cough< how good their gear is.

My rule of thumb is that folks who obsess too much over pure numbers are probably not fun to raid with. Yes, there are certain minimums (my guild actually writes these out on our website in clear, easy to understand English for each class) but very often cooperation and teamwork matter more than sheer brute force.

I was doing Kara and Tempest Keep before they were nerfed. I'm good for rounding out a raid, providing food buffs, dropping totems, throwing lightning bolts, etc. but I don't pretend to be the best of the best. I'm on the second Naxx team for the guild, although we probably won't actually take it on until next week. I'm totally cool with that. I enjoy questing and helping people level more than a really tensed up raid with loot emo anyhow.

[Broomstick]

Which works fine for the kiddy stuff, but once you start dealing with hard-enrage timers and burn phases and such, 'enough' isn't enough anymore. General rule of thumb is once you hit ~2000 DPS, people don't complain anymore. Much below that, and you start having trouble getting serious invites and/or are the first on the chopping block if the raid DPS is low enough to cause enrage wipes. Below 1500 or so and you'll more or less be laughed at. The comment I always hate having to make is 'This looks like a level 70 raid from the DPS,' which is really frustrating for people who're doing what they need to be doing.

OK, let's look at my elemental shaman:

If she regularly hits around 2000 with her lightning bolts, and routinely hits 5k+ with lava bursts, she's not too shabby, right? And that's before the raid buffs are applied.

Of course, the role of a shaman is not pure DPS - I've got my buffing totems to drop if nothing else, the occasional back up heal, and so forth. I shouldn't be hitting the max DPS if we've got a warlock in the group, for example - that's a substandard 'lock.

[Teleros]

"What is your DPS" what bleeding number are they really asking for?

The damage you do per second, usually in a raid environment, and with minimal moving around etc. If you use training dummies etc to test this, be sure to remember what buffs you had. For example though:

1. Your lightning bolts hit every 2 seconds for on average 2k damage. 2000/1 = 1000 DPS.
2. Your lava bursts hit every 8 seconds for on average 5k damage. 5000/8 = 625 DPS.
3. Result is 1625 DPS.
4. Every 2 minutes you do +20% damage for 20 secs (perhaps you stole Avenging Wrath ).
5. Total DPS: ~1679 over a 2 minute fight... ((1625 * 100) + ((1625 * 1.2) * 20)) / 120

Obviously this discounts crits, misses, resists, other sources of damage etc, and assumes no clashes when casting any abilities. To model stuff like that you'll need to work out / find a cast sequence, work out the number of misses etc (hit cap for casters is around 17-19%), and so on. Try Elitist Jerks for more on this, or if you can find a quiet spot with a training dummy just use Recount and try it that way*, make a note of it and disable Recount.

* Just bear in mind DoTs don't work on training dummies with 1HP, so your Flame Shock etc may be unusually low.

[D.Turtle]

Or do it the easy way: Let someone else who uses Recount or something similar post you your numbers after each boss.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Sadly, I don't seem to be able to raise my DPS much. I'm doing about 1200-1300, with some pretty high-level gear. I guess I just need to run heroics more.

[Broomstick]

It's not just the gear - attack rotations can have a significant effect. Some rotations are more efficient than others.

[Civil War Man]

A lot can affect DPS. Gear, rotation efficiency, rotation complexity, how awake the player is when they are fighting. Buffs make a huge difference, too. When I practice alone on a dummy, my DPS is easily 300, sometimes more than 700, less than I would put out in an instance on a similar boss. I play a class that doesn't have any buffs outside Horn of Winter, though, so I can't factor in extras like a Mark of the Wild or Blessing of Might.

[Gil Hamilton]

To give an example of what he's talking about, currently against the level 80 Practice Dummy, my Boomkin can lay down consistantly ~2700 ± 100 or so DPS selfbuffed. However, I bumped into a buddy from a previous guild who is running an Elemental shaman (and if you know elemental shamans and moonkins, we go together like peas in a pod). We joined a group together and went at the dummy at the same time. My DPS against the dummy was recorded at ~3100 DPS. In full raid buffs, with everything I like present, my DPS hits ~3500 on caster friendly boss fights without a problem (some fights are less kind to casters than others).

Of course, alot of it is subject to lagging, RNG, and such. Alleria (my server) has been getting weird bouts of lag and its easy to jack up a rotation when your latency burps. Especially considering that I'm currently doing an Eclipse rotation that doesn't allow me to make a "LOL Cast Rotation LOL" play with one hand while watching a movie macro.

So environment matters.

[White Haven]

It's just a shame Ele shamans don't have terribly well-itemied gear yet, Blizzard seems to have half-forgotten they exist, and as such they're in a bit of an odd place, wearing mostly resto gear. The SP change makes that possible, but SP/Hit mail is really hard to come by at the moment. Hopefully this'll be addressed soon, because it's really uncool for those playing Eles, and as such there are fewer Eles, which I find sad.

[Gil Hamilton]

It's just a shame Ele shamans don't have terribly well-itemied gear yet, Blizzard seems to have half-forgotten they exist, and as such they're in a bit of an odd place, wearing mostly resto gear. The SP change makes that possible, but SP/Hit mail is really hard to come by at the moment. Hopefully this'll be addressed soon, because it's really uncool for those playing Eles, and as such there are fewer Eles, which I find sad.

Elementals and boomkins are kind of in the same boat. If we want the best caster gear for DPS, we are wearing cloth. Blizzard kind of made a conscious decision to make it this way, because they intended for Elemental Shamans and Restorations Shamans (and Balance Druids and Resto Druids) to be rolling on the same piece. This involves putting alot of stats on pieces, SP, and usually haste. To get hit capped, I've got gone through alot of mage/warlock gear. Fortunately, I'm in a guild that doesn't hold it against me, but there exist morons who think that Sparky shamans should only roll on mail and Boomkins leather.

Blizzard also commented in blue posts that they also didn't itemize everyone ideally on purpose. They want us to have something to work for in the next wave of content, rather than what we have plus a little. Supposedly Ulduar is going to be consciously better itemized, but I'm not holding my breath. Blizzard's vision for what gear we should have and what is actually best for us doesn't always see eye to eye.

[GuppyShark]

The only thing is, there is no Holy Cauldron, for whatever reason it doesn't exist.

Hardly enough Holy damage out there to merit it I guess.

Holy Damage is completely unresistable. It would be a pointless addition.

[CaptainChewbacca]

Great story today. So, I see someone advertise for an alchemist, and I recognize the name. He asks me to do 14 Flasks of the Frost Wyrm, no problem. We negotiate a price. While I'm making the flasks, this is the conversation we have:

Me- I think I raided with you before.
Him- Oh yeah?
Me- Remember an Obsidian Sanctum 25-man you did a few weeks ago, where you stole all the loot?
Him- Yes...
Me- And then how you just handed me 450g worth of mats?
Him- Oh... fuck me.

I left the party and hit vanish at the same time, and let him sweat for 30 seconds, then I told him if I was as big a prick as him, I wouldn't be sticking to our agreement. I gave him his flasks, and he paid me what we agreed. Still, very satisfying.

[Gil Hamilton]

HAH! Well done, Chewie. That is, of course, why I never PUG (aside from the fact that I don't have to, being in a raiding guild). Too many dipshits.

[Broomstick]

I'll PUG a 5-man, and I've actually had some good experiences doing it, but not a 10 man or higher