Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers)

[GuppyShark]

"Boy, everyone loved the ending of Battlestar Galactica, where they gave up technology to live on a rock. Let's do that!"
"Boy, everyone loved the ending of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where the 'multiple endings' were a room with a bunch of different buttons. Let's do that!"



I just realised this morning that DE:HR had a better ending because at least a few lines of the monologue changes slightly based on how you played the game.

And ME3's ending came so close to being one of the best endings ever. It was great right up to the Saren re-run, and was good again when Anderson and Shephard are just sitting there waiting to die, but wanting to see that it was all worth it before passing.

[Terralthra]

GuppyShark, it's worse than that. Having the plot change based on things you did throughout the game and decisions you made, leading up to a letdown of "everything leads to the same place with the same set of three choices" is what Deus Ex had in 2000.

[GuppyShark]

On the plus side, it makes the entire War Readiness / Effective Military Strength mechanic meaningless!

[Stofsk]

Not entirely. Earth is slightly less fucked if you have enough EMS.

[Stark]

If only they were 'allowed' by fans to make the coops more meaningful for the story without a freak shitstorm. :v Bioware have dragged the fatties into the future so maybe they're certain they can do it again.

[Zinegata]

The shitstorm was actually pretty weird given how good the Co-Op was, and how easy it is to actually get a 100% War Readiness anyway. Each win improves you war percentage by quite a few points. I'd estimate you'd only have to do around 25 missions at most to get there unless you are completely incompetent or the random player matchmaking hates you. I had a Readiness of over 90% after just playing around 15 matches.

In short, it's not as though they force you to grind through a shitty multiplayer just to get the Golden Ending. It's actually a decent multiplayer.

I do find the "Booster Pack" system for buying new gear and classes a little weird, but even just playing the plain old Concussive Blast Human Soldier I can easily rack up kills and outshine guys who have better ping, guns, and ammo.

[Stark]

The nerdrage over the very IDEA of MULTIPLE for COD BABIES on CONSOLE thy would RUIN MASS EFFECT was only made more hilarious by all the mystified shutins posting awed comments like 'wow I never played a multiplayer shooter before and thought it would suck but it is cool yay'. If Bioware 'listened' to what the fans 'wanted' it wouldn't even exist.

It's just a shame it's pretty shallow and uses magic cards, but it's hamstrung by the godawful adventure game it springs from. We'll just wait for Mass Effect Reach for proper ME multi.

[Zinegata]

It's just a shame it's pretty shallow and uses magic cards, but it's hamstrung by the godawful adventure game it springs from. We'll just wait for Mass Effect Reach for proper ME multi.

The shallowness I can see happening if you play it over hundreds of matches (only three enemy sets, and only a handful of maps), but like I mentioned you don't need to play hundreds of matches to really get 100% Readiness. I felt it was deep enough for the amount of work it is asking you to do, and fun enough to be played casually without reference to the single player.

The Booster packs really need to have been thought out better though. I can see people getting annoyed that they've bought multiple "Spectre" packs and never got the rifle they wanted (i.e. Geth Pulse Rifle, which is generally awesome), while I snagged the said awesome rifle on my very first pack and yet found myself almost never using it compared to the default rifle - simply because Geth Pulse doesn't work well with Concussive shot.

Having no trade option for a "Booster Pack" game was just dumb - as I would have gladly traded away the Geth Rifle for some kit other people have (i.e. Barrel Extension for the standard assault rifle, which I still haven't gotten. I keep getting stupid shotgun attachments).

[Stark]

I'm speaking of the multi as a thing by itself. The play is fine, and the growth is fine, but theres little variety or meat to it. Now that Bioware has forcibly educated their retarded fanbase, I'd hope we see a more substantial multiplayer ME thing in the future. If they worked on skills and unlocks and made more support actions, it'd be pretty sweet.

It's just a shame it had to be so minor in ME3.

[Zinegata]

More enemies; or at least more map types are the priority, I'd think. Right now there's not too much variance on that front - especially since you fight the same guys in SP.

[Zinegata]

Also, just saw this little gem from Mac Walters:

Mac Walters on the Star Child/Reapers
"Originally, with the catalyst, the star child at the end of the game, I had written that much more in the guise of a investigative style conversation, where there is something he tells you but then, you get to ask a bunch of questions and you get your questions answered. But then me and Casey talked and decided, lets keep the conversation "High level". Give you the details that you need to know, but don't get into the stuff that you don't need to know. Like "How long have they been reaping?" You don't need to know the answers to the mass effect universe. So we intentionally left those out"

Mac Walters and Casey Hudson are both officially on my black list now. Seriously? These two idiots thought a softball interview with Little Hitler was a compelling ending?!

<Shep> So, Little Hitler, how many civiliations have you actually destroyed?

<Catalyst/Star Child/Little Hitler> We have been reaping for 2,000,000 years, and the cycle happens every 50,000 years. Do the math.

<Shep> How many people died?

<Catalyst/Star Child/Little Hitler> We call this process Ascension, not death. And we object to calling your kind "people". You are Chaos.

<Shep> I see. Very compelling argument Mr. Star Child!

===

And to make it "more compelling" they changed it so you can't even question Little Hitler?!

[Stark]

Not dumpin useless trivia on the player is actually a good thing for writing.

Sadly useless trivia is the heart and soul of Mass Effect games n:)

[Thanas]

Not dumpin useless trivia on the player is actually a good thing for writing.

Sadly useless trivia is the heart and soul of Mass Effect games n:)

Questions like those are not useless trivia if they lead to meaningful choices and force the player to think at least a bit.

But then again Bioware already has choices labelled as Paragon/Renegade options so clearly having the player think is not high on their list of priorities.

Oh, and for the record: I should not be forced to play Multiplayer if I do not want to.

[Stark]

God defensive sp people are always a lol. :v. PS there's almost no way to make it 'forced', but trying to avoid those accusations weakened it.

And sorry the idea that ME3 had to lay out everything in black and white is dumb. It's pretty dumb to have a convo system based around a whole half the UI for 'useless shit' and then just not providing any at the end, of course. Straightjacketing writing to 'must spell out finale and all motivations or facts with half hour convo' is certainly worse.

[Thanas]

God defensive sp people are always a lol. :v. PS there's almost no way to make it 'forced', but trying to avoid those accusations weakened it.

Well, I just don't care for multiplayer. Never have, never will.

[Zinegata]

Not dumpin useless trivia on the player is actually a good thing for writing.

Sadly useless trivia is the heart and soul of Mass Effect games n:)

Useless trivia is actually fun if they flesh out the world - i.e. making the Elcor do Hamlet.

But when it's time to question the entity which developed a process that involves the genocide of every advanced sentient race every 50,000 years, then the writing quality needs to step up. You cannot just hand wave serious moral and ethical issues with a Larry King interview.

[Stark]

They dont want to weaken the setting by explaining everything, and I think that's good. It just jars with their horrific codex reams of garbage fluff bullshit that flows from the rest of the games. I mean they'll be milking the setting for ages you would imagine, and spelling everything out is lame closure bullshit for the OCD crowd.

And Thanas the ME3 multi is barley multi at all and has all the good (ie the combat) without any if the bad (ie the horrid story). Take a chance.

[Zinegata]

I meant that the very idea of making the softball interview with Little Hitler to explain a complex ethical issue was idiotic to begin with, even without your point that it would keep some mystery to the setting.

[Stark]

It's a Bioware game. To give you choice, they must have a conversation. It's just how they roll.

Do you think it would have been better if the same choice was presented in a different way?

[Zinegata]

No, what I'm saying is that if their intent was to explore serious ethical issues (i.e. "The Nature of Evil"), then it cannot be simply executed well with a single Larry King interview or letting Little Hitler preach to you.

Compare and contrast the Ur Quan of Star Control 2. The moment that they explain their motivation for being evil genocidal monsters (for a pretty "light" game that doesn't take itself too seriously) is pretty shocking. They seriously stop attacking you just because you asked "Why are you doing this?!", and then try to explain in detail their race's tragic history. They're not simply monsters who want to destroy everything for evil lulz. You get the real sense that they really thought this through as a species - to the point that they are compelled to call a truce and spend a couple of minutes to explain to you why they have to do what they do.

Funnily, this is such a plot point for their race that asking "The Words" was actually the reason one other whole species (the trader dudes) still even exist.

[Stofsk]

The ur-quan kzer-za weren't genocidal. I am pretty sure they gave their conquered enemies a choice, live on your homeworld under a slave shield, but free from harm, or join the Heirarchy as Battle-thralls - where you have some autonomy but have to partake in subjugating other alien races. That's why earth, the syreen, and the chenjesu and mrmmrmm (lol) were under the slave shield, while the yehat became thralls (the shofixti chose mass suicide instead of either option). The arilou weren't an issue since they live in quasi-space and are untouchable. It's the kohr-ra who believe in the doctrine of cleansing all non-ur-quan life from the galaxy.

But yeah, mass effect wishes it could be like starcontrol 2. The first time you talk to a reaper in ME1 Sovereign sounds like he's twirling his snidely whiplash moustache. Harbinger spends most of ME2 punktalking you, but he did say 'we are you salvation through destruction'. If that line had been explored to mean something like: 'why do you resist, by becoming a reaper your species achieves immortality - after a fashion. We're doing this to help you' it could have worked a lot better.

[PeZook]

I'm not even sure the Reapers really need a clear motive to work as villains, really. They're Monsters From Beyond.

[Stofsk]

Well... I dunno. Even the Shadows from B5 have their motivations, and they're pretty lovecraftian.

[PeZook]

Well... I dunno. Even the Shadows from B5 have their motivations, and they're pretty lovecraftian.

I suppose they work better because they're malicious and evil and they STAY malicious and evil, even when you learn why they do what they do, rather than being reduced to intelligent combine harvesters working for Farmer Kidd.

[Stofsk]

I agree, and even Vigil says in ME1 what do you care why they do what they do, your only choice is to stop them or perish in the attempt. What difference does it make if the reapers are evil or truly believe they're doing organic races a favour by reducing them to slush and incorporating them into their design? It's the same result regardless. It's just better than going HAHAHA PUNY ORGANIC WE EXIST IN A REALM FAR BEYOND YOUR UNDERSTANDING BUT I'M GOING TO TALK TO YOU FOR ANOTHER FIVE MINUTES ANYWAY

And talking to Sovereign was probably one of ME1's highlights. At least in the atmosphere and music and all that stuff. It's just, if you're going to go with the unknowable, unfathomable Lovecraftian Machine God From Beyond The Stars as your main villains, then uh... try less smack-talk? Harbinger was incessant about it in ME2.

*hits Shepard with a fireball*
'I KNOW YOU FEEL THIS SHEPARD'
'IF I MUST TEAR YOU APART SHEPARD I WILL'
'WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION'
*Shepard looks to his squadmates*
'Wtf does that even mean?'