Space Empires IV Game... of Doom! (Adamant Mod)
Moderator: Thanas
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GuppyShark
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Nova Andromeda
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-I'm certain I asked these questions before the game started. It was either via pm or directly in this thread (I don't want to read all the posts though). The answer I got was everything that isn't a bug exploit is fine and I'm pretty certain Nephyts agrees. There were some objections, but as far as I know they were ignored. Personally, I don't have a problem with any of the issues listed. Scorched earth is a time honored tradition and effective strategy. I sounds like sour grapes when people complain that an opponent uses every trick in the book to stop them. I mean really! If they can't do anything, but burn their own planets things can't be going all that well for them. Trading colonists seems entirely reasonable. Trading tech. is fine too and it isn't quite so easy in Adamant (although it probably is to my advantage to vote against it). In the end, tech. trading and colonist trading are far less odious than an unprovoked gangbang which is perfectly "legal".brianeyci wrote:Anyway back to game administration. It's come to my attention that there is confusion on the rules. Rules suck, yadayada and I know why nobody wants/wanted to talk about them, but in heated negotiations with Trogdor and now Nova some important points have come up.
Is it okay to trade population. This is done so that you can say, slap methane breathers on a methane planet and get a breather even though your people breathe oxygen.
Is it okay to trade technology.
Is it okay to abandon planets completely, scrap facilities in an oncoming invasion to spite someone who's about to invade your stuff.
That's all I can think of now. And the rules are the domain of the game administrator so the answers probably could be just yes or no, there shouldn't be any voting especially since we're so late in the game and thinking of abandoning it anyway. I/we need to know about these three things since it's important for our trade deals. Thank you.
Brian
Nova Andromeda
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Arthur_Tuxedo
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Okay, if that's what we decide, that's fine. In that case, I'll stop researching ship construction immediately and let Brian do it (he's been doing it anyway), and give him a bunch of tech.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
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GuppyShark
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I dislike tech trading because it leads to a level of uniformity amongst people, and in some games it can lead to incredibly unfair advantages--with like two Physical races and an Organic one. The physical races can swap tech, the organic one can't, leading to a situation where just a few can benefit from it and are more likely to become vastly more powerful.
I also dislike trading colonists--primarily because it just gives another advantage that not everyone can exploit. In the STmod game Neph got access to Oxygen colonists while all my neighbors and allies are Oxygen breathers. In fact, everyone BUT her breathes oxygen, leading to a situation where she can grab two types of atmospheres and everyone else can't. Not that it's hideously unfair--we could all get some of her colonists as well theoretically--but you can see why this might frustrate people in a game like Adamant where resources are pretty thin as-is. If all my neighbors are the same as me, and there's an alliance over there of CO2 breathing Gasworlders and Vaccum breathing Iceworlders, they're going to be able to exploit vastly more territory.
The real question is "Do these strategies add anything?"
Scorched Earth indeed does! It makes people have to guess--what world will he hit? Can I defend? Do I want to tear up my border system and withdraw? Do I want to stick it out and risk a world being captured? And if he captures it, maybe I can recapture it before HE scorches it!
But the trading just dumbs down the game. It allows people to get too powerful too fast. That or we need more efficent atmosphere converters.
I also dislike trading colonists--primarily because it just gives another advantage that not everyone can exploit. In the STmod game Neph got access to Oxygen colonists while all my neighbors and allies are Oxygen breathers. In fact, everyone BUT her breathes oxygen, leading to a situation where she can grab two types of atmospheres and everyone else can't. Not that it's hideously unfair--we could all get some of her colonists as well theoretically--but you can see why this might frustrate people in a game like Adamant where resources are pretty thin as-is. If all my neighbors are the same as me, and there's an alliance over there of CO2 breathing Gasworlders and Vaccum breathing Iceworlders, they're going to be able to exploit vastly more territory.
The real question is "Do these strategies add anything?"
Scorched Earth indeed does! It makes people have to guess--what world will he hit? Can I defend? Do I want to tear up my border system and withdraw? Do I want to stick it out and risk a world being captured? And if he captures it, maybe I can recapture it before HE scorches it!
But the trading just dumbs down the game. It allows people to get too powerful too fast. That or we need more efficent atmosphere converters.
If you want, just surrender to the Zerg. I'll replace your shipset with mine and we'll both have a grand ol' time. Plus I'll get to make another post about how the Zerg have swallowed up an Empire. And then I'll be able to bring this game more swiftly to an end!Tobor wrote:Sorry, but due to my new job i have to drop from the adamant game. It shouldn't be too much of a problem since i was sucking anyway.
Go Conquer the plants covenant
The game won't end any time soon. Nobody really has the firepower to blow up a homeworld... Nephtys couldn't bust through half a homeworld's shielding.
I don't think he should just surrender the planets. That would be unsporting and give a huge advantage... more than ST. Adamant homeworlds are fortresses.
Anyway for me I'm also quitting but in a different sort of way. I asked Dalton for a temp ban soon, and I'm ripping out the wireless card from my laptop tomorrow. I'll be limiting my time on SD.net to 15 minutes a day and download my turns spending an hour to play them all at once every other day. That means if you see me as the last guy to do a turn the most you'll have to wait is around 24 hours, but you won't get me immediately replying to pms (maybe not at all). See you around SD.net heh heh.
EDIT : I decided to jump the gun and edited my message to Dalton to ask for the temp ban immediately. I will talk to you peeps through e-mail or something, sayonara.
Brian
I don't think he should just surrender the planets. That would be unsporting and give a huge advantage... more than ST. Adamant homeworlds are fortresses.
Anyway for me I'm also quitting but in a different sort of way. I asked Dalton for a temp ban soon, and I'm ripping out the wireless card from my laptop tomorrow. I'll be limiting my time on SD.net to 15 minutes a day and download my turns spending an hour to play them all at once every other day. That means if you see me as the last guy to do a turn the most you'll have to wait is around 24 hours, but you won't get me immediately replying to pms (maybe not at all). See you around SD.net heh heh.
EDIT : I decided to jump the gun and edited my message to Dalton to ask for the temp ban immediately. I will talk to you peeps through e-mail or something, sayonara.
Brian
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GuppyShark
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With players coming and going, I think now would be a good time to reboot the Adamant game.
If this mod is so good, why are we fifty turns in and nothing has happened? We've only got one conflict going on and it's only a border skirmish, with neither faction threatened.
I suggest Brian's ten homeworlds, a better galaxy map, and some mid techs instead of this painfully slow crawl from the gravity wells.
If this mod is so good, why are we fifty turns in and nothing has happened? We've only got one conflict going on and it's only a border skirmish, with neither faction threatened.
I suggest Brian's ten homeworlds, a better galaxy map, and some mid techs instead of this painfully slow crawl from the gravity wells.
Oh I am threatened alright heh heh.
Anyway this shall be my last post here, at least until the 31st, ripping my card out right now. I don't care whether we stay or go, but I would understand if people want to go.
The old Star Trek took over 100 turns. B5's on turn 140 and there's no real fighting at all though it's special. Star Trek's on turn 50 I think and the war's just started for me anyway. It's not that it's 50 turns and nothing's happened, it's that a lot of people made bad choices with character generation. Personally I like my choice since it let me grab so much territory.
If we do restart I suggest whoever's the game administrator take a look at the game rules I made up. For a mod I don't think Adamant's that bad at all. I just think the 72 hour turns makes it slow as shit for people who aren't in all three games. That's just ten turns a month and that is way too slow. Maybe we should just let this one game die and try and resolve either B5 or Star Trek before starting a new one.
Ten homeworlds would double the speed of the game and wouldn't be that broken. If you can kill one homeworld you can kill ten and if you can't kill one you can't kill ten. The cluster was also a good idea with everybody starting up close, but turns out nobody really has enough territory and we need a map at least twice or three times as large for people to develop a little before meeting each other. Or at least, a map large enough so people don't start out right next to each other.
Mid-level technology in Adamant's a little broken and gives everybody too much tech, I think we concluded. I think ten homeworlds would easily solve the tech crisis, along with a larger map so everybody say gets five or six systems before first contact. Sixty systems is obviously not enough so maybe we need a 120-150 system map and evenly distributed throughout the galaxy" switched to on heh heh.
Also I think it should start with 24 hour turns then move to 36 hour turns after 20 turns and go to 48 hour turns after 40 turns.
Brian
Anyway this shall be my last post here, at least until the 31st, ripping my card out right now. I don't care whether we stay or go, but I would understand if people want to go.
The old Star Trek took over 100 turns. B5's on turn 140 and there's no real fighting at all though it's special. Star Trek's on turn 50 I think and the war's just started for me anyway. It's not that it's 50 turns and nothing's happened, it's that a lot of people made bad choices with character generation. Personally I like my choice since it let me grab so much territory.
If we do restart I suggest whoever's the game administrator take a look at the game rules I made up. For a mod I don't think Adamant's that bad at all. I just think the 72 hour turns makes it slow as shit for people who aren't in all three games. That's just ten turns a month and that is way too slow. Maybe we should just let this one game die and try and resolve either B5 or Star Trek before starting a new one.
Ten homeworlds would double the speed of the game and wouldn't be that broken. If you can kill one homeworld you can kill ten and if you can't kill one you can't kill ten. The cluster was also a good idea with everybody starting up close, but turns out nobody really has enough territory and we need a map at least twice or three times as large for people to develop a little before meeting each other. Or at least, a map large enough so people don't start out right next to each other.
Mid-level technology in Adamant's a little broken and gives everybody too much tech, I think we concluded. I think ten homeworlds would easily solve the tech crisis, along with a larger map so everybody say gets five or six systems before first contact. Sixty systems is obviously not enough so maybe we need a 120-150 system map and evenly distributed throughout the galaxy" switched to on heh heh.
Also I think it should start with 24 hour turns then move to 36 hour turns after 20 turns and go to 48 hour turns after 40 turns.
Brian
Last edited by brianeyci on 2006-07-10 10:30am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm with Brian on this. 10 homeworlds may not be the world's favorite nut to crack, but it will solve a lot of resource and technology problems that we all have in this mod. Plus, since you all have had a better chance to look things over, I'll expect prime fighting examples next game!
I'll need to tweak my Zerg some! Too bad my mod's not quite ready yet. I think it's looking good so far.
Small, fun, lots of flavor so far. Adamant is almost too complex for my tastes. But it's got the best chargen available, and that's fun.
I'll need to tweak my Zerg some! Too bad my mod's not quite ready yet. I think it's looking good so far.
Small, fun, lots of flavor so far. Adamant is almost too complex for my tastes. But it's got the best chargen available, and that's fun.-
Nova Andromeda
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-I don't think 10 homeworlds really helps all that much since expansion follows exponetional/log growth and it just adds more fortress worlds to deal with. Adding more systems simply makes getting turns done in a reasonable time difficult in addition to adding to game time.
-The primary reason things are taking so long is that it takes forever to get sufficient tech. to expand (which is necessary to boost research to decent levels and necessary to produce a good amount of production facilities and new resource income).
-The fortress planet problem won't go away with 10 homeworlds. High levels of tech. and massive numbers of ships are needed to take out a homeworld or even a planet with a good amount of population and planetary shields. Getting enough troops on the ground is impossible if the planet is defended and even if it isn't several thousand troops are needed just to defeat the militia nevermind any real troops on the planet (btw, most of these troops won't survive unless you have a really large transport). The bottom line is that destroying the planet is far more efficient. There simply isn't enough to gain from capturing a fortress planet to justify the cost. This is especially true if your enemy can still put up a fight.
-The best solution to speed up the game is to start with med. tech. I don't see why everyone hates this. Starting from ground zero tech. is just busy work and slows things down considerably. In fact, with med. tech. we probably only need 3 homeworlds since the expansion phase will be much faster and people will run out of things to colonize much sooner. After that things get really interesting (an empire then must choose between expanding through tech. or war). Additionally, noone is going to max out tech. easily (it simply costs too much).
-I think the balance of races should be addressed if tech. trading is allowed (so the one magic race isn't screwed). However, if this problem is address there should also be rules to stop unprovoked gang banging.
-Of topic: Covenant, no offense intended, but your avatar's animation is extremely annoying.
-The primary reason things are taking so long is that it takes forever to get sufficient tech. to expand (which is necessary to boost research to decent levels and necessary to produce a good amount of production facilities and new resource income).
-The fortress planet problem won't go away with 10 homeworlds. High levels of tech. and massive numbers of ships are needed to take out a homeworld or even a planet with a good amount of population and planetary shields. Getting enough troops on the ground is impossible if the planet is defended and even if it isn't several thousand troops are needed just to defeat the militia nevermind any real troops on the planet (btw, most of these troops won't survive unless you have a really large transport). The bottom line is that destroying the planet is far more efficient. There simply isn't enough to gain from capturing a fortress planet to justify the cost. This is especially true if your enemy can still put up a fight.
-The best solution to speed up the game is to start with med. tech. I don't see why everyone hates this. Starting from ground zero tech. is just busy work and slows things down considerably. In fact, with med. tech. we probably only need 3 homeworlds since the expansion phase will be much faster and people will run out of things to colonize much sooner. After that things get really interesting (an empire then must choose between expanding through tech. or war). Additionally, noone is going to max out tech. easily (it simply costs too much).
-I think the balance of races should be addressed if tech. trading is allowed (so the one magic race isn't screwed). However, if this problem is address there should also be rules to stop unprovoked gang banging.
-Of topic: Covenant, no offense intended, but your avatar's animation is extremely annoying.
Nova Andromeda
With ten homeworlds you could have 40 base ship yards out in under ten turns and 40 colonizers out in under fifteen turns. The colonizers may move slow but by turn twenty they'll have found suitable planets.
The resources are the main problem. I don't mind the low technology.
Medium tech start gives too many of the powerful technologies like shield bypassing weapons, powerful shields, a heavy destroyer hull (or light cruiser?)
Was this game low technology cost?
Anyway this is my last post for real lol
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I think we need a lot of star systems, probably large and not small or medium.
Brian
The resources are the main problem. I don't mind the low technology.
Medium tech start gives too many of the powerful technologies like shield bypassing weapons, powerful shields, a heavy destroyer hull (or light cruiser?)
Was this game low technology cost?
Anyway this is my last post for real lol
.I think we need a lot of star systems, probably large and not small or medium.
Brian
You just can't take the Moustache Bandito head on. It's alright, few are able! Just don't stare into his eyes. I'll be keeping him though, I still think he's hilarious.
And hm. Fortress Worlds are tough, and adamant is goofily designed so that med tech does offer a lot of goofy things right off, but aren't we about there anyway? I have powerful shields, sheild-skipping weapons and light cruiser hulls. It sounds like if anything it would just help us all get up to the right levels.
Or we could start a new game with low tech costs, ya' know. I could also rig up admant to include a zero point +50percent research boost trait so that we all have a bigger bump.
Or we could do, like, 3 homeworlds and I could just multiply the amount of research generated by those Homeworld Cities by ten times.
And hm. Fortress Worlds are tough, and adamant is goofily designed so that med tech does offer a lot of goofy things right off, but aren't we about there anyway? I have powerful shields, sheild-skipping weapons and light cruiser hulls. It sounds like if anything it would just help us all get up to the right levels.
Or we could start a new game with low tech costs, ya' know. I could also rig up admant to include a zero point +50percent research boost trait so that we all have a bigger bump.
Or we could do, like, 3 homeworlds and I could just multiply the amount of research generated by those Homeworld Cities by ten times.
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Nova Andromeda
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-The only point to doing research at all is to get the tech. necessary to deal with an empire with fortress worlds. Resources are much easier to expand with the right tech. as well.
-I don't like the idea of uber homeworlds because all that means is colonies are little better than refeuling stations that empires use to slug it out. In that sort of game there is little or no strategy involved. It is pointless to build colonies for resources or research since they won't have an impact on the game before it matters. Therefore, it is pointless to research infrastructure tech. for colony growth. You simply research military tech. and build an attack fleet to rush anyone nearby ... continue until one guy dies or surrenders ... continue until someone wins.
-I can't take the animation. It is just as infuriating as flashing web ads.... I already looked into his eyes btw.
-I'd prefer to stay away from too many mods on top of mods if possible.
-Why are all my friends quiting the game??? I feel abandoned and just when a ruthless enemy attacked!
-I don't like the idea of uber homeworlds because all that means is colonies are little better than refeuling stations that empires use to slug it out. In that sort of game there is little or no strategy involved. It is pointless to build colonies for resources or research since they won't have an impact on the game before it matters. Therefore, it is pointless to research infrastructure tech. for colony growth. You simply research military tech. and build an attack fleet to rush anyone nearby ... continue until one guy dies or surrenders ... continue until someone wins.
-I can't take the animation. It is just as infuriating as flashing web ads....
I already looked into his eyes btw.-I'd prefer to stay away from too many mods on top of mods if possible.
-Why are all my friends quiting the game??? I feel abandoned and just when a ruthless enemy attacked!
Nova Andromeda
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GuppyShark
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Just wondering---is anyone looking to make some money? I'm starting to go freaking insane due to these open borders, and I'm looking to put myself massively in debt.
So, everyone, go to your maps and click on the All Loving Eye of the Overmind and check out my claimed space. Hell, don't even bother. I'll get right to it. I wanna buy some planets. Ideally ones inside my space (I'm looking at you, Transformers!) but basically anywhere. I'd also consider selling off some of my fancy tech (adamanium, phase stuff, destroyer and cruiser hulls) but money is not as important to me right now as getting some firmer borders and such. And unless you want to trade, I can't even accept cash yet, since my treasuries are bloated.
I could just spend all my cash on maintaining warships and take some of those worlds, but that's really messy. If anyone is short some cash though, I'm really looking to make some trades. I don't even know what the hell is going on with my space, or what. And note, these don't need to include facilities or pop. I'll transport my own Zerggies over there and you can detonate all the buildings. I want real estate!
But that's all. I hope there's some bites. Otherwise, eh, I dunno. I'm not even sure what's going on with my forces or anything, and it'll be a long time before I'm comfortable and feel like I've gotten my guys back on track. No offense to Booyah of course, but not stopping people from colonizing your space just seems bad planning, and it's bothering me. Is there anyone who would be interested in taking this over in a worst case scenario?
I'd also be willing to put better treaties on the table. Military ones, says Neph, might be a good thing for me to offer to allow people to refuel at my hives.
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PS: I'm also planning on closing my borders to new colonization, and halting any new colonies in progress, but I won't do this for another turn or two, after which I may strongly encourage people to sell me the colonies in my space--'cept maybe the Transformers, but I'd like to start purchasing those as well. So if you have colonizers in my space, please consider turning them around. I'm pretty serious about this--just check my track record in STmod for allowing cross-colonization. ;p
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Just wondering---is anyone looking to make some money? I'm starting to go freaking insane due to these open borders, and I'm looking to put myself massively in debt.
So, everyone, go to your maps and click on the All Loving Eye of the Overmind and check out my claimed space. Hell, don't even bother. I'll get right to it. I wanna buy some planets. Ideally ones inside my space (I'm looking at you, Transformers!) but basically anywhere. I'd also consider selling off some of my fancy tech (adamanium, phase stuff, destroyer and cruiser hulls) but money is not as important to me right now as getting some firmer borders and such. And unless you want to trade, I can't even accept cash yet, since my treasuries are bloated.
I could just spend all my cash on maintaining warships and take some of those worlds, but that's really messy. If anyone is short some cash though, I'm really looking to make some trades. I don't even know what the hell is going on with my space, or what. And note, these don't need to include facilities or pop. I'll transport my own Zerggies over there and you can detonate all the buildings. I want real estate!
But that's all. I hope there's some bites. Otherwise, eh, I dunno. I'm not even sure what's going on with my forces or anything, and it'll be a long time before I'm comfortable and feel like I've gotten my guys back on track. No offense to Booyah of course, but not stopping people from colonizing your space just seems bad planning, and it's bothering me. Is there anyone who would be interested in taking this over in a worst case scenario?
I'd also be willing to put better treaties on the table. Military ones, says Neph, might be a good thing for me to offer to allow people to refuel at my hives.
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PS: I'm also planning on closing my borders to new colonization, and halting any new colonies in progress, but I won't do this for another turn or two, after which I may strongly encourage people to sell me the colonies in my space--'cept maybe the Transformers, but I'd like to start purchasing those as well. So if you have colonizers in my space, please consider turning them around. I'm pretty serious about this--just check my track record in STmod for allowing cross-colonization. ;p
The Transformers would be more than willing to colonise and hand over a planet to you. For a small fee of course. Usually we ask for a similar sized planet but cash will do at the moment (I managed to bankrupt myself by hitting 'Upgrade facilities). Let me know where you want it.
Dragon Clan Veritech
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Arthur_Tuxedo
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I will be without net access for an indeterminate number of days, but probably not more than a few. Please don't execute the turn without me.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
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Arthur_Tuxedo
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Net access is back. Thanks for holding.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark." - Muhammad Ali
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
"Dating is not supposed to be easy. It's supposed to be a heart-pounding, stomach-wrenching, gut-churning exercise in pitting your fear of rejection and public humiliation against your desire to find a mate. Enjoy." - Darth Wong
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GuppyShark
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Nova Andromeda
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