Mass Effect 2

[Stofsk]

Even on Virmire, you could make Wrex live as Paragon OR Renegade. So long as you had sufficient Charm or Intimidate points.

Actually, charm or intimidate isn't even necessary. If you do Wrex's sidequest about his family armour, you have a dialogue choice that gets him to backdown.

And the ending, does it even matter what you are? It's "council lives / council dies", and you choose one or the other. Even if you've played Renegade up until that point for the whole game, you can let them live, and vice versa.

No it doesn't, which is why I like it. You can play as a paragon throughout the whole game and make a couple of renegade decisions if you want to, and neither cancels the other out like it would in say KotOR.

[Stark]

It's massive for Bioware, true. As the RPGs or choices, it's kinda meh, with the point of why I disliked the gifts in this particular. Basically you could in one moment go "Yeah, so I her die for her worthless bastard child...and? Oh here's a bouquet of flowers. Let's fuck.". It is a better step but I wish Bioware would actually have it truly have some effect rather then letting you fuck them over but as long as you can bribe them they love you as much as the dog does. Really, gifts broke DA more for me, but the dialogue/choices and what it affected were better.

Another note is your point of it was less BAD or GOOD is a forward point. You made choices on what you believed were good or bad but they were not black and white and at times very brutal even for what some could call the good choice. As you said about the Dwarven ascension. Neither of them are really good choices and in fact one choice is slightly better for their future, but isn't the one you think it is. With ME, it didn't matter a whit if you went around "FUCK ALIENS!!!" and let the council get turned into Reaper chow.

I am hoping perhaps some future game they will have you stand behind your dialogue, and no backroads to have your characters all love your avatar. I know...how dare a party not all love you and each other. But hey, I can dream .

Since it's not your reasoning - only the 'good' or 'bad' choice you make - it's partiuclarly annoying. You can make the 'good' choice for totally selfish reasons or while being a horrid cunt, and you can do a 'bad' thing reluctantly for the best reasons. Bioware doesn't care because their writing and convo scripting is primitive; you can pick the 'but it was a danger to the galaxy' option all you want, you're not getting rid of the bad karma. Either they're retards who see the universe in black or white (the option I personally consider likely) or they're cynically exploiting simpleminded nerd fantasies.

I actually found ME's renegade/paragon system better than DA's gift system. I mean c'mon, Sten bags the shit out of you, questions your leadership and so on, then you give him a couple paintings and suddenly you're best of buddies and he's telling you about his goddamn honour blade or whatever. At least ME's system doesn't affect Shepherd acting like a hero, unlike say KotOR where the choice is literally between being good or evil. True, none of the choices you make in ME have any effect outside of their particular plot climax, however that's what the sequel is for, so I'm hoping things like saving the Rachni Queen, or killing her, or saving the colony on Feros or killing the Batarian slavers on BDTS or letting them go - and of course, whether Wrex lives or dies or who you choose to save between Ash or Kaidan, as well as the Council - I hope things like this are addressed in ME2.

This is why ME's system fails. There is no reason to do one thing over another aside from 'going for Paragon achievement' or 'going for Renegade achievement'. I don't even remember any times where the most primitive benefit is available down one path; loot. Games did THAT with choices in 1983. DA didn't wait till two years later in a paid sequel to have consequences.

While it'd be nice if the import from the first game is very granular, to be frank I'd be surprised if more than Council, Wrex and Virmire were considered relevant.

[Ghost Rider]

It's massive for Bioware, true. As the RPGs or choices, it's kinda meh, with the point of why I disliked the gifts in this particular. Basically you could in one moment go "Yeah, so I her die for her worthless bastard child...and? Oh here's a bouquet of flowers. Let's fuck.". It is a better step but I wish Bioware would actually have it truly have some effect rather then letting you fuck them over but as long as you can bribe them they love you as much as the dog does. Really, gifts broke DA more for me, but the dialogue/choices and what it affected were better.

Another note is your point of it was less BAD or GOOD is a forward point. You made choices on what you believed were good or bad but they were not black and white and at times very brutal even for what some could call the good choice. As you said about the Dwarven ascension. Neither of them are really good choices and in fact one choice is slightly better for their future, but isn't the one you think it is. With ME, it didn't matter a whit if you went around "FUCK ALIENS!!!" and let the council get turned into Reaper chow.

I am hoping perhaps some future game they will have you stand behind your dialogue, and no backroads to have your characters all love your avatar. I know...how dare a party not all love you and each other. But hey, I can dream .

Since it's not your reasoning - only the 'good' or 'bad' choice you make - it's partiuclarly annoying. You can make the 'good' choice for totally selfish reasons or while being a horrid cunt, and you can do a 'bad' thing reluctantly for the best reasons. Bioware doesn't care because their writing and convo scripting is primitive; you can pick the 'but it was a danger to the galaxy' option all you want, you're not getting rid of the bad karma. Either they're retards who see the universe in black or white (the option I personally consider likely) or they're cynically exploiting simpleminded nerd fantasies.

I lean more to their writing staff believes the world is black and white as well. If they were exploiting nerd fantasies...we'd have more emo bitches winning and being fawned by big tit chicks with their incessant whining. It is amsuing how Bioware's writing though is considered the foil for Japanese RPGs in that people consider that you can make the *hard* choices versus just being dragged around.

Course this brings up an interesting thought to their writing of the single player for their MMO. Given their proclaimations of an immersive single player with a full storyline for both the GOOD Jedi, the EVUL Sith, and whatever MANDOs....I am darkly amused to see what will become of it.

[Ford Prefect]

While it'd be nice if the import from the first game is very granular, to be frank I'd be surprised if more than Council, Wrex and Virmire were considered relevant.

A lot of it is undoubtedly just going to be dialogue changes, because they talk about two hundred things you can change from the first game to the second, but there aren't nearly that many major decisions. Admittedly so of the decisions you do make are pretty important (structure of the Council, for example) but others don't seem like you could do a lot with them.

[Stark]

It'd be pretty easy to include the Rachni choice (although they'll doubtless ignore what you actually did at the scene) and given how much noise they probably recieved over that being meaningless they may have made it a point to include a 'generate random Rachni spawns' script. It'd be nice if some of your charming pointless team conversations could include stuff like 'tell that to the people of Feros you butcher' or whatever, but it's not something I'd expect.

[adam_grif]

Well, according to some prerelease info, Wrex, if he survived, has united the Korgan to find a cure for their blue balls. My guess is that by game 3, they'll become a significant threat to the galaxy or something like that (the original reason they were infected with the whatever-its-called), and if you let the Rachni queen go she'll help take 'em out. Sort of the inverse of what had happened historically (Krogan taking out the Rachni).

[Ford Prefect]

I've been trying hard not to mention KING WREX because it's a pretty significant spoiler. We could use a return to the Krogan Golden Age; my delusions hold that they were once a Council race.

[adam_grif]

Well apparently in 1900 BCE they had already devastated their homeworld with nukes. So really they're probably not the best people to be welcoming into the galactic community.

[Ford Prefect]

They also had a huge and successful empire which made the combined polities of the Attican Traverse look like children. The Krogan get a lot of shit because they're 'violent' but there's no denying they were one of the most successful groups in recorded history. This is setting aside all their various physical advantages like extreme toughness, great strength, immortality, super-powerful biotics etc. I mean, they were a part of the galactic community at one point and they're largely no more demanding than the Systems Alliance, the difference is that the Korgans aren't a bunch of desperate retards so they actually got what they wanted.

[DPDarkPrimus]

It'd be pretty easy to include the Rachni choice (although they'll doubtless ignore what you actually did at the scene) and given how much noise they probably recieved over that being meaningless they may have made it a point to include a 'generate random Rachni spawns' script. It'd be nice if some of your charming pointless team conversations could include stuff like 'tell that to the people of Feros you butcher' or whatever, but it's not something I'd expect.

They've said over 200 decisions in the first game will affect your ME2 game (though how many of those are actually significant...), and a couple they mentioned in particular were what you did with the Rachni and how you resolved the situation with Conrad Verner.

[adam_grif]

Info from the Mass Effect Wiki on transfer:

* The decision to save either Kaidan or Ashley.
* Whether or not the player kills Wrex on Virmire.
* Whether or not the player decides to save the Citadel Council at the end of Mass Effect.
* The player's choice of love interest.
* Whether the player spares or destroys the Rachni Queen at Peak 15.
* The player's treatment of Conrad Verner.
* Whether or not the player completed the UNC: Asari Diplomacy sidequest.
* Whether the player chose to allow the Alliance to conduct experiments on Nirali Bhatia's body.



Due to massive gameplay redesign, your level will not transfer over to Mass Effect 2 and you will start out with basic abilities. However, the game will acknowledge if you were a level 60 character and if you were a Renegade or Paragon and adapt it in ways that map across to the new system. Also, the physical appearance and class of imported characters can be changed at the start of the game, if desired.

If a player has no Mass Effect save files, Mass Effect 2 will start with an introduction sequence which, in combination with interactive decisions made by the player, introduces new players to the storyline and establishes a “canon” backstory.

Sounds about right, but I can't vouch for it's truthfulness.

[Vendetta]

The Krogan get a lot of shit because they're 'violent' but there's no denying they were one of the most successful groups in recorded history.

Much of their success is owed to the Salarians though, who uplifted them to deal with the Rachni and then fucked them up when they wouldnt stop "dealing with" people.

Without Salarian intervention, they'd be too busy killing each other to achieve spaceflight.

[Laird]

I can confirm those are all important choices that affect ME 2, Well I was at Bioware and playing ME 2 the most important one in my opinion is the choice if you killed Wrex or not. Spoiler

If you did, have fun when you visit the krogan home world.

[Gramzamber]

Man I hate looking at Mass Effect preview videos because they all use that effete ponce of a mascot default character.

Anyhoo I have to wonder if too much time is being taken on miniscule choices (Conrad Verner? Really?) that might detract from the length of the game. We'll soon see I guess.

[Stark]

I wouldn't be too concerned; you can easily picture the board meeting where that was decided. Oh, that annoying guy that did nothing where the options were 'be a pussy' and 'threaten to kill him'? Let's make that a hilarious feed into the next game, that'd be awesome'.

PS, it won't. And people can quote '200' all they want, the vast majority of them will be dialog, vendor or quest text changes. That's marketing for you.

[adam_grif]

I still remember the TEN BILLION FALLOUT 3 ENDINGS!

[Andrew_Fireborn]

Yeah, if their marketing is putting it at 200, one has to wonder if even letting the council die/live effects the game in any serious way...

[adam_grif]

I also lol at things like "In the last game, we only had 40 cover animations, now we have over 500!" or whatever they said.

[Stark]

More cover animations = better cover system. Or... something.

What's sad is that following the council choice should have a massive effect on the whole goddamn world of ME2 to the point where they'd almost be parallel stories instead of same story, different dialog.

[adam_grif]

The first rule of "multiple path" gaming is that the more things diverge, the more they stay the same, until the very end.

[Gramzamber]

Yeah the choice between maintaining the Council and "1st Great and Bountiful Human Empire, rar!" is pretty damn story dividing.
Being a cynic I can only expect a KotOR 2 Star Forge copout ("Oh gee well Revan had this gigantic starship replicator but.. got bored of it and left then it got destroyed because everyone else is too stupid to use it.").

[adam_grif]

Playing through Mass 1 again to get my "canonical" back story down properly.

I really hate that all the organic enemies scale with your level. What's the point in leveling up if everybody is equally tough no-matter what level you are? At least the Geth remain cannon fodder throughout most of the game. It's at the point now where I 4 round burst from my assault rifle downs a regular geth trooper, and about 1 second of sustained fire downs a shock trooper.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I really hate that all the organic enemies scale with your level. What's the point in leveling up if everybody is equally tough no-matter what level you are? At least the Geth remain cannon fodder throughout most of the game. It's at the point now where I 4 round burst from my assault rifle downs a regular geth trooper, and about 1 second of sustained fire downs a shock trooper.

It depends on what difficulty you play on. Higher difficulties = enemies scale more.

[adam_grif]

Normal, lowest aim assist I can set it to.

The biggest issue is when organic enemies rush you. It's practically impossible to kill them with any speed, so even though I'm saying 25 rounds into their face as they charge, they still close the gap and do stupendous damage. My squadmates never survive because they're too stupid to retreat.

Game is so much more fun when you're just killin' geth.

[Stark]

If you're not cheesing biotics you only have yourself to blame.