TSW: The Game! (split from main thread)

[Edward Yee]

The main human strength on defense that I think could be "translated" into RTS game terms is sheer long-range firepower, the ability to chew up almost any army that has yet to close the distance.

When I think of the Battle of al Badiyah al Janubiyah, I think of Siege Tanks with supporting Goliaths vs. a rush, with a lot of Vulture mines between them, and aerial units on both sides, the humans chewing up the rush before counterattacking with a "tank rush" of their own... for the Battle of Hit, an attempted rush against a "choke point" of several lines of Bunkers whose inhabiting Marines are pushed back several times and badly battered, until the Wraiths (or Vikings in SC2) were able to clear the air enough for Banshees (the SC2 gunship analogue) to provide CAS and relieve the choke point.

[Mayabird]

Sorry I didn't note it earlier here (just in the original thread) but I split this off from the main TSW thread on request.
[line 2]

[[R_H]]

In TSW, we can`t have low population caps, at least not for baldricks. That would defeat the purpose.

That, or pop caps that change as the game progresses. Or different costs, say 2 pop for a basic baldrick mount, but 4 for the HEA equivalent
 

Also, mobility shouldn`t be the primary advantage of humans in defense.  It`s good for guerrilla tactics and aerial strikes, but having humans running around fleeing the daemon onslaught is not quite what the story is about.

Not running away, advancing in the other direction. In all seriosness, they'd just be out maneuvering them.

that`s why I wanted baldricks to be constrained in their earlier attacks somehow.

In the RTT games I've played, getting rushed wasn't ever a serious problem, because as long as you had enough points, you could reinforce, and use firesupport. No tech tree also helped greatly.  

Larger maps is a very good idea. It might lead to some boring multiplayer games, though.

On the other hand, bigger battles are possible with the map getting crowded and/or the whole thing turning into a close ranged slugfest. 

So, tactical focused game, with reduced if not absent economic model. that is more consistent with the story. it could be not that easy to pull, though. I suppose we can draw different resources for each faction, money for humans, fear for daemons and devotion for angels. Or something like that.

Why don't you think it wouldn't be easy?

It would be very important for the humans to run out of ammunition and fuel to help balance things too, where the demons would be able to call down their shit almost endlessly. Say what you will about the demon footsoldiers, but they weren't ones to give up.

I strongly agree on ammo, but how would you go about incorporating a fuel stat?

[Ritterin Sophia]

You know, a TSW game has a lot of promise. As you say, a branched storyline with the player starting off having to fight daemons on Earth (say berserker raids or something) and, as he gets better, he gets more powerful weapons but meets nastier daemons including Gorgons and wyverns etc. If he gets to the end still alive, then he wins one way. But, if he gets killed, he starts off again in Hell, has to escape, meet up with the resistance etc. Once again he has to do good to get the better stuff.

That could be a real seller.

Well if we're going to design a game, you probably want to follow the Modern Warfare formula. Which I'm guessing you're not familiar with Stuart.

The prologue missions of each have you running a practice mission course.

The first real missions of Modern Warfare throws you into the shoes of a member of the 22nd SAS fast roping onto an Estonian cargo ship suspected of carrying nuclear warhead sold by Russian Ultranationalists to an unnamed terrorist organization in Anonistan (not the real name, it's never named). The second throws you into.

In Modern Warfare 2 you start out as an Army Ranger in a convoy attempting to rescue a unit called BCT-One trapped in an unnamed Afghan city.

Really, just starting the game out as a soldier in Hit would be optimal. Have the character do a short patrol mission which will be your starting tutorial.

[Ritterin Sophia]

It didn't occur to me to maybe post some videos for Stuart's viewing pleasure.

Crew Expendable- Second Mission of Modern Warfare
Team Player- Second Mission of Modern Warfare 2

As a bonus Death From Above, best mission of the Modern Warfare series.

[Stark]

By 'best' do you mean 'most boring concievable'? Or are you being meta and suggesting zero-threat is the way to go?

[Ritterin Sophia]

By 'best' do you mean 'most boring concievable'? Or are you being meta and suggesting zero-threat is the way to go?

To you, you often forget most gamers aren't you.

No the appeal is that raining doom down on unsuspecting terrorists is fun. Besides you're wrong, the threat isn't to you but the SAS you're supposed to be covering. Which can very easily die in that mission, causing you to fail.

[Edward Yee]

One annoying thing for me about the training mission of CoD4 was that while it was you clearing the simulated cargo ship, in the actual mission it was the NPCs who would always be first through the door -- thus you following behind them, other than for killing the two sleeping guys in the bunks. (I'm not even going to ask how they got the plans for the ship, other than assuming that their intel had it being of an known ship class.)

The AC-130 mission's a good bit crazier in "Overwatch," a MW2 co-op ("Special Ops") mission -- same map and basic route as the mission before "Death From Above," but now with the AC-130 overhead, different starting weapons choices, and only one shooter down below, plus different enemy spawns... a helluva lot harder than "DFA," that's for sure.

If starting in the Battle of Hit, I wonder how the scale of the "overall" fighting would be represented, much less the Battle of al Badiyah al Janubiyah? (I'm considering them two separate battles; not sure what to call the "main body of Abigor's army versus the US-led artillery and armor outside of the city" fight.)

[Rye]

I'm pretty sure they did the marine vs thousands of easily killable demons/marine goes to hell FPS.



Mind you, those demons had at least some technological progression.

You could actually have a lot of fun from an RTS perspective if you could balance it and encourage different playing styles, like Yuri's Revenge. Perhaps having pop caps on the human side but not the others? Afterlife resources gained from killing humans, that sort of stuff.

[Lagmonster]

Scripting an FPS in the context of the novels would be fairly easy;

You could replicate the 'execution of the president' mission style of level in Modern Warfare for your intro, showing you (an infantryman) moving in a convoy along the ridge where the initial conflict took place, seeing the rows of artillery raining down on the initial horde, which leads to...

E1 - assigned to defend a small village nearby from scattering demonic troops. A few random troops, seeking to escape death, blunder into the village, forcing you to fight, after which...

E2 - you move in a 'rail shooter' mission manning a gun where you follow a straggler's column and wipe it out en-route to Hit, after which...

E3 - you fight in a two-stage mission in Hit, the first trying to link up with someone else during the initial wave, and the second during the frenzied finale, the end of which sees a pre-rendered cutscene involving the player's death on the end of a trident, after which...

E4 - you wake up in the molten river. After a minute of surveying the scenes, you're pulled out by a demon and dragged off, but at the last moment saved by someone working for Kim's people. After which...

E5 - you participate in a mission or two helping the resistance link up with the outside world and begin the resistance...


I'll stop here, but there are enough guerrilla skirmishes in the fledgling Legions to form missions where it would be plausible to have a player be part of a small squad. You could change parts of the story for gameplay value by having your character help scout Belial's fort, or be part of the team that portals into Satan's throne room at the end just to see the big finish. Most of Pantheocide is just humans flailing around on earth, so you wouldn't miss much as a player, but you COULD in theory use the Modern Warfare method of having you jump from body to body, say from a human soldier in Israel during the beast attacks, to a fighter in the...Phillippeans, was it, where heaven provoked a civil war? I can't recall. Or moving on, to even being a demon in Caesar's legion during the final assault before Heaven capitulates.

[Edward Yee]

Nah, it was a Myanmarese/Burmese invasion of Thailand that was intercepted by the utilization of portals from Hell.