Battlefield 3 announced, is superior on PC.

[Losonti Tokash]

You know that Allegiance had 100 player games as early as 2000, right?

[GuppyShark]

I didn't think I'd actually care about another FPS announcement for a long time.

Bad Company 2 felt like a step backwards for the genre thanks to the tiny scale. That they have the balls to develop a big FPS in the Battlefield tradition without letting themselves be held back by what are now very old consoles is a fantastic improvement to the state of the art.

I'm looking forward to seeing destructible environments with the full suite of things I have come to love from the Battlefield series - player-controlled vehicles fighting for control of huge environments.

At heart though I was more of a BF2142 player so I am keen to see if they develop a similarly improved version of that.

[Ritterin Sophia]

That they have the balls to develop a big FPS in the Battlefield tradition without letting themselves be held back by what are now very old consoles is a fantastic improvement to the state of the art.

So... I take it you didn't read anything that's been posted in this thread? Good job.

[adam_grif]

You know that Allegiance had 100 player games as early as 2000, right?

Was allegiance a game running on a 6 year old console that attempted to have graphics competing with all of the big boys at the time and render destructible environments? E.A. is trying to get the game to look as good as the Modern Warfare series (the main competitor to BC2, arguably), while providing destructibility, while running on the same hardware.

You can't argue in good faith that console hardware limitations aren't holding them back on this one. The only reason the PC version is getting the huge playercount is because it has so much more power to work with, as a platform, so it can have the graphics, destructibility and huge maps / high playercount all running simultaneously without a problem.

[xthetenth]

Well, I'd say that if they do the player size scaling the right way, then they aren't really letting themselves be held back much. To be perfectly frank, I can't think of anything in, say, 2142 or BC2 as a gameplay element, that would be/was constrained by an aspect of the console other than the performance. I'd say (partly because I'm desperately hoping I'm right, even though it's not the only possible interpretation) that it could be a case where they just took the core functionality, got it working on consoles for small maps, and then let it fully bloom to the extent that the PC could handle it instead of hamstringing the PCs a la BC2. You still get the PC's proper functionality while paring it back for the consoles' weakness, which is what I think he meant. Or it could be a clusterfuck and I could be looking forward to an excuse to get friendly with the vodka again.

[General Zod]

You know that Allegiance had 100 player games as early as 2000, right?

Was allegiance a game running on a 6 year old console that attempted to have graphics competing with all of the big boys at the time and render destructible environments? E.A. is trying to get the game to look as good as the Modern Warfare series (the main competitor to BC2, arguably), while providing destructibility, while running on the same hardware.

You can't argue in good faith that console hardware limitations aren't holding them back on this one. The only reason the PC version is getting the huge playercount is because it has so much more power to work with, as a platform, so it can have the graphics, destructibility and huge maps / high playercount all running simultaneously without a problem.

http://nexus404.com/Blog/2011/02/06/bat ... x-360-ps3/

For once you're right, but who cares outside of fatties? If I'm not going to be talking to the other 100+ people on a map I may as well be playing with AI bots.

[Sea Skimmer]

[
Wait till 2012 or so when XBox 360 II and PS4 come out.

Right now, if you want to do a crossplatform game across PC/XBox360/PS3, you have to basically make sure the basic game remains playable on a system with only 256 MB system / 256 MB VRAM.

That's a pretty big deadweight, particularly if you want to do something that has enough room and space for 100+ players to run around in.

You can see the ram limitation big time in Bad Company 2. Some of the maps are pretty big, but huge areas are just empty of any detail or decoration except the basic ground texture and elevation changes. The smaller maps are nicely done, but at times constrained even for 24 players.

[adam_grif]

For once you're right, but who cares outside of fatties? If I'm not going to be talking to the other 100+ people on a map I may as well be playing with AI bots.

Flow of discussion:

Shep: The consoles aren't powerful enough for the higher playercount > LS: But a game back in 2000 had 100 players > Me: But this series is trying to do many things at once and has to make sacrifices on console hardware.

So correcting someone's misleading argument is a symptom of fatness? I see.

[General Zod]

For once you're right, but who cares outside of fatties? If I'm not going to be talking to the other 100+ people on a map I may as well be playing with AI bots.

Flow of discussion:

Shep: The consoles aren't powerful enough for the higher playercount > LS: But a game back in 2000 had 100 players > Me: But this series is trying to do many things at once and has to make sacrifices on console hardware.

So correcting someone's misleading argument is a symptom of fatness? I see.

I wouldn't exactly call it correcting anything without something from the developers explicitly saying it was due to the console's limitations. Otherwise it just sounds like typical pc gamer dickwaving.

[MKSheppard]

Otherwise it just sounds like typical pc gamer dickwaving.

Right. Keep telling yourself that you can have everything on 256 to 512 MB of RAM.

[adam_grif]

Right. Keep telling yourself that you can have everything on 256 to 512 MB of RAM.

The 360 has 512 that functions as system memory and vram, whereas the PS3 has 256 for each, discreetly. So it's more like 256 for both under realistic cirucmstances.

Otherwise it just sounds like typical pc gamer dickwaving.

Acknowledging that PCs are way more powerful is dickwaving? I know you guys hate admitting that consoles have weaknesses but come on. I'm shocked nobody has brought up the comfy couch defense yet.

[MKSheppard]

Acknowledging that PCs are way more powerful is dickwaving?

The sad thing is, the consoles were actually competitive with your average PC/Mac back in 2005.

Back then about 512 MB was seen as decent enough for a major brand computer (Powerbook G4); and the consoles had the advantage in that they had very low overhead operating systems so they could use more of the memory compared to a normal computer. But around 2008, they started to lose that advantage as 1 GB or more became mainstream.

[General Zod]

Right. Keep telling yourself that you can have everything on 256 to 512 MB of RAM.

The 360 has 512 that functions as system memory and vram, whereas the PS3 has 256 for each, discreetly. So it's more like 256 for both under realistic cirucmstances.

Otherwise it just sounds like typical pc gamer dickwaving.

Acknowledging that PCs are way more powerful is dickwaving? I know you guys hate admitting that consoles have weaknesses but come on. I'm shocked nobody has brought up the comfy couch defense yet.

Because throwing around terms like "pc gamer master race" and "console stockholm syndrome" really doesn't make you sound like a massive dickhead at all.

[adam_grif]

If you can find one instance of me using the phrase "console stockholm snydrome" I'll eat a 512mb stick of pooled memory on Camera. PC Gaming Master Race is a meme, and is used in jest.
Spoiler

Dirty console peasants!

[General Zod]

If you can find one instance of me using the phrase "console stockholm snydrome" I'll eat a 512mb stick of pooled memory on Camera. PC Gaming Master Race is a meme, and is used in jest.
Spoiler

Dirty console peasants!

It must be a meme used on the fatter parts of the internet, because I've never heard of it before.

[adam_grif]

Right, you're talking shit so just keep up the mindless insults instead. Why isn't this shit HoSd yet?

[Ritterin Sophia]

If you can find one instance of me using the phrase "console stockholm snydrome" I'll eat a 512mb stick of pooled memory on Camera.

"console stockholm snydrome"

[adam_grif]

If you can find one instance of me using the phrase "console stockholm snydrome" I'll eat a 512mb stick of pooled memory on Camera.

"console stockholm snydrome"

Very funny.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Very funny.

You best not be thinking of reneging on our agreement, now.

[adam_grif]

Sure, let me just find a 360 that doesn't work anymore, shouldn't take too long.

[Zablorg]

Sure, let me just find a 360 that doesn't work anymore, shouldn't take too long.

Just FYI, premature 360 death hasn't been a real issue for years.

[adam_grif]

I know, we're having fun here before the mods break it up.

[Fire Fly]

GameInformer magazine scans

Some of the highlights:

* Aiming for Q4 2011 release
* Concept for BF3 has been in the works for years, waiting on proper tech to seamlessly come together
* Frosbite 2.0 is the culmination of this tech, entirely re-written
* Lighting sounds neat, one “probe” contains more lighting information than an entire BFBC2 level.
* Level destruction is going to be “believable” but basically everything is destructible.
* Character animations powered by ANT, what EA Sports uses.
* AI characters and multiplayer characters have different animation sets
* No more “gliding” animations that look off, animation realism is a focus
* Captured their own war audios (bullets, tanks, helicopters, etc) at different distances to ensure realism
* Better audio cues for certain actions, more easily able to listen for threats
* Plan on better, more immediate post release content
* More unlocks than BFBC2
* Dice trying to find a good balance between customization of your character and not having “pink rabbit hat(s)”
* 4 classes
* Will talk about squads “later”
* Looking into a theater mode but can’t talk about it
* Will have co-op
* There will be a kill-cam but it can be turned off
* BF3′s team is almost twice as big as the team for BFBC2
* They want the pacing of the single player mode to be balanced, with highs and lows. Makes the comparison to a song vs a guitar solo.
* Part of the single player mode takes place in Sulaymaniyah – Iraqi Kurdistan.
* “Fuck” will be used often, so M rated for sure
* There will be an earthquake in a level. The destruction sounds very impressive. 7 story building collapses, looks very well done
* Significant narrative that goes with the SP mode
* More than one setting, you’re not in the middle east for the whole game
* PC version is lead version
* Why 64 players for PC only? No complains from the console crowd.
* No mod tools at release. Maybe none down the line either. Frosbite 2.0 is complex and mods tools would have to be dumbed down, so does Dice really want to put their time to that or would it be better spent elsewhere?
* Original story, not based on Bad Company at all.

And no Commander position apparently.

Q: When I think about Battlefield 2, I always come back to the Commander position and the game within the game that arose from having Special Forces objectives. Are those returning in the proper sequel?

A: We could implement it, but the question is "How do you get the threshold lower?" That's not by making it more complicated. Our challenge is to make sure that anyone that just jumps into the game will get it. One of the biggest problems with Commander was that only two people could use it. Some people liked it but most people didn't care. They just cared that someone gave them an order or that their squad could play together having fun on their own more or less. Then the more hardcore people went into the Commander mode and learned how to use that. You could argue it was a great feature, but looking at the numbers you could also say that no one uses it. We tried in Bad Company 2 to give that tot eh players, so you could issue orders to your squad and you could use gadgets like the UAV that only the commander could use earlier - giving the power back to the players so everyone could use it. That made a big difference. More people could enjoy the game. We lowered the threshold for everyone because we gave it to everyone. We now know where the boundaries are for keeping the strategic depth and complexity while lowering the threshold to get in.

[CaptHawkeye]

No mod kit sounds terrible though. What are the Forgotten Hope and PR guys going to do?

[xthetenth]

Real shame about the mod tools, depending on how right they got the destruction on tall buildings I'd love to play around with them. I'd love to play a level with the freedom of approach of crysis, but in a relatively small region of a city, where a lot more of the focus is on just punching through the walls to move between buildings, where you're basically moving through the buildings and get to choose any route you want. I'm hoping we see something like that in Crysis 2, but Warhead was ever so much more linear, and being able to play it multiplayer is hugely more awesome. I wonder if a game could support a building large enough to be a 24 player level basically on its own. If so then it's a huge shame there's no modding tools for reasons other than the usually high quality of the mods BF gets. It might be open enough for a PRMM style stats tweak mod though, but not the whole thing they've got going by now.