Thinking about buying a console

[Vendetta]

Vendetta, what's the crossbar like? We joke about the dash being slow these days - what's the Sony side like?

It's pretty responsive, but then I don't have much on my PS3, and most of it is just simple icons. It doesn't have much of a menu hierarchy either, so I can imagine that the menu that shows my installed games for instance could become unwieldy if I had nearly the number of downloaded PSN titles as I do XBLA ones (nearly 100), because that's a top level menu that shows all the games I have on the system no matter their source, as well as some other gubbins to do with savegame management. That stuff's tucked away behind one of the metro tiles on the Xbox dash, which does mean that they can advertise to you more, but also means that you don't get a menu with a hundred things on it unless you ask for it.

Also no matter how tedious and inconvenient to find anything they make the Xbox Marketplace the PSN store still manages to be worse. Managing to make it tedious and inconvenient to find anything in a store that has far less content in it. (And downloadable PSN games very rarely, if ever, have demos, which is mystifying and also annoying to an XBLA user who is used to everything having to have a demo)

[Thanas]

I don't really much care about playing online or about playing exclusive titles. The only thing somehow appealing would be God of war but the thing seems to be a pretty stupid hack and slash butchering greek mythology.

What I am most interested in is having things run smoothly and fast.

With cross-platform, theres often some variability in port quality. What I hear is that unless the game was developed for PS3 first, the PS3 versions have either lower frame rates or more crashes or both. Dragons Dogma, to take an example, runs about the same on both but crashes more on PS3. The PS3's architecture is apparently horrible to program for, and in the world of cross platform business it usually doesn't get as much care as PC and the PC-like console.

If I want crashes I would continue PC gaming, where "update" patches of 2GB are common.

[Flagg]

Thanas, do you play Skyrim at all, or plan to on a console? Because the PS3 version is fucked, apparently. They probably aren't even releasing DLC for that version of the game. As someone who owns both a PS3 and a 360, I gotta say, I'd never buy a PS3 again.

[Thanas]

Not playing Skyrim, no. If I would, I'd be playing it on a PC.

[Flagg]

Not playing Skyrim, no. If I would, I'd be playing it on a PC.

Makes sense, just wanted to make sure in case you wanted it on console. I really have to recommend the 360 all around, though. I was very anti-Xbox when this "generation" started, but have gotten my head out of my ass and have to recognize the 360 as the best overall console experience.

[General Zod]

I don't really much care about playing online or about playing exclusive titles. The only thing somehow appealing would be God of war but the thing seems to be a pretty stupid hack and slash butchering greek mythology.

What I am most interested in is having things run smoothly and fast.

With cross-platform, theres often some variability in port quality. What I hear is that unless the game was developed for PS3 first, the PS3 versions have either lower frame rates or more crashes or both. Dragons Dogma, to take an example, runs about the same on both but crashes more on PS3. The PS3's architecture is apparently horrible to program for, and in the world of cross platform business it usually doesn't get as much care as PC and the PC-like console.

If I want crashes I would continue PC gaming, where "update" patches of 2GB are common.

You still get 2gb updates on either console, but they're not as common on the PC, and the 360 takes way less time to update than the PS3.

[Losonti Tokash]

Literally the only game I can think of that's ever had an update that huge is BF3.

Anyway, Thanas, Xbox Live does not require payment. You need a Gold account if you want to play online or use stuff like Netflix but game updates and dlc and such are available to everybody with no extra charge. 9 times out of 10 if you buy something cross platform the 360 version will run better. I know you're not interested in multi and such but 360 is also where you'll find more people from here which can at least be helpful in a game like Dragon's Dogma where half your party can be characters from your friends list.

[Zinegata]

I don't really much care about playing online or about playing exclusive titles. The only thing somehow appealing would be God of war but the thing seems to be a pretty stupid hack and slash butchering greek mythology.

What I am most interested in is having things run smoothly and fast.

With cross-platform, theres often some variability in port quality. What I hear is that unless the game was developed for PS3 first, the PS3 versions have either lower frame rates or more crashes or both. Dragons Dogma, to take an example, runs about the same on both but crashes more on PS3. The PS3's architecture is apparently horrible to program for, and in the world of cross platform business it usually doesn't get as much care as PC and the PC-like console.

If I want crashes I would continue PC gaming, where "update" patches of 2GB are common.

I've never actually had to update my PS3 at all, but again I barely go online.

Also, Stark is way overstating the crashing issue. I'm currenty playing Dragon's Dogma on the PS3 (20+ hours in) and haven't experienced a single crash despite me playing the most frame-rate intensive class. In fact I haven't experienced a single crash with any of my PS3 games.

[Zinegata]

Which points to the issue being limited to certain games, rather than the problem being the machine "not liking" streaming data from blue-ray (it's not any worse than DVDs).

The issue really, as with MGS4, is that early PS3s had poor hard drive capacity and some game developers tried to "help" by constantly installing and uninstalling huge bits of the game. With most games I've played though (MGS4 being the sole exception), the install process doesn't really take longer than the PC.

Which kind of defeats the point of getting a console. You really don't want to deal with installation times, you just want to pop in the game and go.

Except that you're exaggerating the issue. You pretended it's an issue with the blue ray player, which would then affect all PS3 games. That is not true at all.

It's only an issue with a few specific games, mostly old ones. If you aren't planning to play MGS4, then it's not even an issue at all.

[Zinegata]

A list of games including exactly one good game and one (different) game Thanas is likely to care about isn't really very compelling. It's actually kind of sad to see PS3 slaves tout Demon Souls as an exclusive, when the sequel is available on everything. It'd be like 360 enthusiasts harping on Mass Effect 1.

Actually, I've played both Dark and Demon Souls, and I have to say that Demon's is actually a lot better than Dark Souls (albeit more challenging), which does warrant a seperate listing.

Whether or not it's worthy of getting a PS3 over an Xbox however... that really depends. I had three specific exclusives in mind when I got the PS3 - Demon Souls, Valkyria Chronicles, and MGS4 - all of which were available for cheap.

But given that you're just trolling with your "PS3 slaves" bullshit with incorrect information (i.e. "Dragon's Dogma crashes a lot on the PS3" - it doesn't), you should probably look in the mirror when you accuse other people of not giving good information when they post. Stop trying to make it an Xbox 360 vs PS3 thread.

[Losonti Tokash]

Stop trying to make it an Xbox 360 vs PS3 thread.

Thanas is literally asking whether to buy a 360 or a PS3.

[Zinegata]

Stop trying to make it an Xbox 360 vs PS3 thread.

Thanas is literally asking whether to buy a 360 or a PS3.

My point is that both consoles have good/bad points and that Thanas is looking to make a good buy; and that requires correct information be given instead of stupid PS3 vs Xbox 360 fanboyism.

Talking smack and spouting outright lies like how Dragon's Dogma crashes more in the PS3 - when I've yet to experience a single crash - isn't giving good information. It's just trolling folks like how he calls them "PS3 slaves".

Note how - except for pointing out that Xbox Live needs $60 for its Gold service - I never talked smack about the 360. Because I don't have one and can't comment on how good or bad it is. For instance - I personally like the PS3 controller and thought it was functional, but since I've never tried the 360 controller I couldn't comment if one was really superior over the other or not.

By contrast people who've never played Dragon's Dogma on the PS3 are telling me that I'm supposed to experience a lot of crashes (I don't, so I'm either the luckiest PS3 player out there or this is just exaggeration), and people who've played only MGS4 (and a few other games) on the PS3 are telling me I should experience 10-30 min install times for everything because of the blue-ray when that simply doesn't happen outside of that one game.

[Stark]

It's a lie because it hasnt happened to you? By that rationale, the well-know hardware problems with early 360s are 'lies' too because hey - never happened to me. Do you honestly think a single anecdote counters all the PS3 owners in this thread talking about the flaws?

I'm actually really pleased with the payoff on the term PS3 slaves. Of course, the similar insult towards 360 users has bought no response at all.

[General Zod]

I've never experienced the red ring of death on the xbox. Must be a lie.

[Zinegata]

It's a lie because it hasnt happened to you?

Like I said, there are two possiblities: I am the luckiest PS3 player out there, or you're just talking smack about something you've never actually tried before. What's more likely?

By that rationale, the well-know hardware problems with early 360s are 'lies' too because hey - never happened to me. Do you honestly think a single anecdote counters all the PS3 owners in this thread talking about the flaws?

No, this is you making stupid arguments again.

If there is an inherent stability problem with Dragon's Dogma on the PS3, then it should affect all PS3s because you claimed it was a programming issue. All PS3s use the same OS.

What you're talking about is a manufacturing issue. Both the Xbox 360 and PS3 had pretty high fault rates initially. No one is disputing this, and pretending the two issues are one and the same is stupid.

But now that we're here, and to extract something actually useful out of your useless fanboy trolling - I'll also point out that I got one of the new production PS3, which apparently don't have any of the hardware fault issues of the old ones and apparently don't crash. So as long as Thanas gets a brand new console (360 or PS3) he should be able to avoid all of the above issues.

I'm actually really pleased with the payoff on the term PS3 slaves. Of course, the similar insult towards 360 users has bought no response at all.

Yeah, thanks again for proving that you're just trolling and are playing popularity contest games. The fact that the people talking untrue smack about the PS3 are cheering your "Red Ring of Death doesn't exist!" argument only goes to further demonstrate how you're treating this as a fanboy versus thread.

[General Zod]

If there is an inherent stability problem with Dragon's Dogma on the PS3, then it should affect all PS3s because you claimed it was a programming issue. All PS3s use the same OS.

So what? Not all PS3s use the same hardware. There's been bugs in games on the 360 I've never experienced that have been well documented. "The same OS" really means diddly.

[Stark]

I'm not sure Zinegata knows how statistics work. My grandpa smoked a pack a day for fifty years, too! Died in his sleep of too many Tim Tams!

Amusingly, checking up suggests I may have been too lenient on PS3; most reviews say that PS3 suffers from lower framerate due to some vsync silliness on DD. Zinegata wouldn't know, but that doesn't make it a lie. Its all beside the point along with everything else, but its still worth talking about.

PROTIP: Zinegata, are you aware that Zod's obviously absurd statement was intended to highlight your own stupid statement?

[Zinegata]

So what? Not all PS3s use the same hardware. There's been bugs in games on the 360 I've never experienced that have been well documented. "The same OS" really means diddly.

This is about as useful as your misinformation about how the "blue ray installs more slowly" when it was in fact an issue only with specific games.

Stark claimed the crashes were a programming issue, again implying it affects all PS3s because all PS3s use the same OS.

Much more likely - because I have a new PS3 and never experienced any - it's a hardware issue. So as long as you get a new model PS3, then Thanas won't encounter the supposed issue.

Really, you go full-on retard when I simply forgot to mention that the Xbox 360 didn't need an Internet connection (despite many people mentioning it), yet you pretend this outright misinformation (all PS3s have crashing issues because of the programming!) is no big deal?

Stop playing fanboy games. You're way exaggerating the problems of the PS3 in terms of the crashes and install times.

[General Zod]

So what? Not all PS3s use the same hardware. There's been bugs in games on the 360 I've never experienced that have been well documented. "The same OS" really means diddly.

This is about as useful as your misinformation about how the "blue ray installs more slowly" when it was in fact an issue only with specific games.

Stark claimed the crashes were a programming issue, again implying it affects all PS3s because all PS3s use the same OS.

Much more likely - because I have a new PS3 and never experienced any - it's a hardware issue. So as long as you get a new model PS3, then Thanas won't encounter the supposed issue.

Really, you go full-on retard when I simply forgot to mention that the Xbox 360 didn't need an Internet connection (despite many people mentioning it), yet you pretend this outright misinformation (all PS3s have crashing issues because of the programming!) is no big deal?

Stop playing fanboy games. You're way exaggerating the problems of the PS3 in terms of the crashes and install times.

Except nobody's saying that all of them have crashing issues. I'm sure I could list other examples of problems like ports having worse performance than the 360, but I'm sure you'd go into fanboy mode to defend it.

[Zinegata]

Amusingly, checking up suggests I may have been too lenient on PS3; most reviews say that PS3 suffers from lower framerate due to some vsync silliness on DD. Zinegata wouldn't know, but that doesn't make it a lie. Its all beside the point along with everything else, but its still worth talking about.

Actually, I was aware of the lower frame rate (but didn't really think it was all that relevant; I'm not a big frame rate guy).

What's really funny though is that it's the third time you tried to change the argument. We started with your false claims of the PS3 having crashes due to programming issues (untrue). You then backpedalled and whined about RROD issues. You then backpedalled into this.

So really, when are you gonna stop playing games because you like to pretend you're so much superior to all the unwashed PS3 slaves?

PROTIP: Zinegata, are you aware that Zod's obviously absurd statement was intended to highlight your own stupid statement?

And you think I care about your attempts at playing games with Zod? Oh look, Stark and Zod agree to make fun of Zine! That makes them so awesome instead of a pair of people who stated wrong things about the PS3 because they wanna play fanboy games.

[Zinegata]

Except nobody's saying that all of them have crashing issues.

Wrong. Stark said:

What I hear is that unless the game was developed for PS3 first, the PS3 versions have either lower frame rates or more crashes or both. Dragons Dogma, to take an example, runs about the same on both but crashes more on PS3

Frame rate, yes. Crashes, no.

I would have no issue if Stark mentioned frame rate specifically, which was an issue with DD. Because that's a known fact. But he didn't.

[Stark]

The best parts here are linked; you're apparently unaware of what you just quoted means, and you think Thanas cares. He wants a console that just works and apparently doesn't care about PS3 exclusives or Bluray. This makes his decision pretty easy ... And yet here you are, saying a problem doesn't exist because it hasn't happened to you. Have you seen the DE:HR or Skyrim crashes, or are they also lies?

[Zinegata]

He wants a console that just works and apparently doesn't care about PS3 exclusives or Bluray. This makes his decision pretty easy ... And yet here you are, saying a problem doesn't exist because it hasn't happened to you. Have you seen the DE:HR or Skyrim crashes, or are they also lies?

If his decision is pretty easy, then why do you have to manufacture lies about Dragon's Dogma which does not have crash issues for the new model PS3s? This is already the fourth time you have attempted to change the argument to avoid having to admit that you talked smack.

Also note that I never contested the Skyrim claim: I haven't played it and I haven't seen its problems.

Finally, regarding the overall point: Yes, Thanas wants a console that just works. I was pointing out you were blowing some "problems" of the PS3 way out of proportion.

Zod tried to pretend that the PS3 was riddled with update/installation issues. That's untrue, I've only had one specific game that had this problem (and there are only a few others with the same issue) and it has nothing to do with the blueray.

You then claimed that there's something wrong with the PS3 programming so that it apparently crashes a lot if it's a port. While it may be true for Skyrim and other games (I'm not claiming unless I've played it), that is definitely not true for Dragon's Dogma, and I am highly doubtful that you are correct as to the reason why the crashes happen (programming).

The problem seems to be more dependent on the specific game and what kind of PS3 you got, so if you have a newer PS3 model (Like I did) you should be fine.

That is all. The rest is just you smack-talking and playing fanboy games (PS3 slaves! Let me teach Zine because I so much smarter!). You're so dumb that you confuse my refusal to talk smack about the 360 (which I've never played, hence me not saying bad things about it) as confirmation of your argument's superiority rather than me deciding not to talk about something I'm not familiar with. Whatever. Continue being an idiot.

[Stark]

Don't worry; when you've dug yourself in deep enough I'll explain why this is hilarious.

Anyway, other people have discussed problems in this thread (like install issues etc) that you are claiming don't exist simply because they haven't happened to you. Your reasoning that if it hasn't happened to you, and you have a new PS3, that this means new PS3s don't have the problem is pretty silly. If you had an OLD PS3 and never saw these problems, would you say that this meant it was only new PS3s? Of course not; you'd understand probability and say that a systemic problem doesn't necessarily mean any individual will ever see it.

You're so dumb that you confuse my refusal to talk smack about the 360 (which I've never played, hence me not saying bad things about it) as confirmation of your argument's superiority rather than me deciding not to talk about something I'm not familiar with. Whatever. Continue being an idiot.

What are you even talking about? I (and others in this thread) are trying to give Thanas the information he needs to make the best decision for him. People have already mentioned problems with 360 (the most glaring being dashboard performance at the moment) and nobody is going insane with rage.

Except... you.

[Zinegata]

Anyway, other people have discussed problems in this thread (like install issues etc) that you are claiming don't exist simply because they haven't happened to you.

*sigh* You can't ever say an honest thing ever, can you?

I never said "they don't exist". I said that you were way exaggerating the issue based on personal experience. I then further refined it and said that it was probably because I had a new box.

If it was - as you claimed - a programming issue, then it should affect all PS3s equally. They all use the same software.

But no, instead of actually taking a while to understand what I'm saying, you play more bullshit 360 vs PS3 games (by bringing up 3 different arguments, none of them related to the original contention on the crashes), hurl personal attacks, accuse people of being PS3 slaves, and then pretend you're innocent and all superior.

Whatever. Go cry and play your "Let's trap the fat nerds and get them banned!" games.