FPS games on consoles vs PCs

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Post by The Kernel »

Hotfoot wrote:Let's look at the total costs awaiting console gamers who want full compatability (i.e. all systems, marked at release prices).

You will need the following...
1 HDTV (34" or up) = $1,000-$4,000
1 X-Box ($300 + extras) = $333
1 PS2 ($300 + extras) = $333
1 Gamecube ($300 + extras) = $333
1 GBA + 1 GBA SP ~= $300

Low end (assuming you get a great deal on that HDTV), you've got a price tag of $2,300 before you buy any games. That's enough for a pretty beefy (2+ Ghz, 1 GIG RAM, 120GB HDD, 19"-21" monitor, etc) computer system. High end ($5,300) means you can get a kickass computer system with all the bells and whistles and still have cash left over to buy a dozen games or so, get broadband, whatever. Let's not forget that you can make a living with a computer.
Most families in America already own TV's that can play consoles as opposed to PC's that can play games. Do you know how many PC's out there lack AGP? Ever here of the i810 chipset?

Anyways, since when do you need every console to be a console gamer? I subsist just fine on my Xbox ($179) and my PS2 ($179). A person can pick only ONE and still have a much better game selection than the PC.
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Note he said full compatiability and justify the thought that the PS2 and X-Box provide a better Selection. :?

Perhaps larger in some respects, but better is highly subjective.
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Post by The Kernel »

MKSheppard wrote:
The Kernel wrote: The biggest issue I see is that the PS3 will likely be even harder to develop for because it places massive emphasis on parralelism through its sixteen core CPU.
:roll:

Right. You're assuming that Sony won't learn from PS2 experience. :roll:

Compare Saturn with it's 3 CPUs to the next generation from Sega, Dreamcast, which was fucking ridiculously simple to program for.
Shep, I'm afraid that Sony has already made public its CPU design of the PS3 (did you think I pulled this from my ass?). The "Cell" processor uses 16 different MIPS cores which are all functionally identical. This makes it MUCH worse than the PS2's vector units (there aree only 2 remember?).

Realistically, it is likely that Sony will do a better job of getting development tools out sooner, but it won't change the fact that game developers aren't used to threading their games like this. If you look at the amount of thread-level parralelism in games today you can see that this the PS3 is going to have a steep learning curve. Not just in the low-level coding, but in the actual way the game is made.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Kernel wrote:Most families in America already own TV's that can play consoles as opposed to PC's that can play games. Do you know how many PC's out there lack AGP? Ever here of the i810 chipset?
Actually, in my neighbourhood everybody owns a reasonably modern PC. I don't know what your neighbourhood is like. And using a TV for games means you can't use it for anything else (like watching TV) when someone's playing.
Anyways, since when do you need every console to be a console gamer? I subsist just fine on my Xbox ($179) and my PS2 ($179). A person can pick only ONE and still have a much better game selection than the PC.
Are you seriously saying there are more games available for XBox than PC? Where do you get these figures from?
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Post by Ghost Rider »

Darth Wong wrote:
The Kernel wrote:Anyways, since when do you need every console to be a console gamer? I subsist just fine on my Xbox ($179) and my PS2 ($179). A person can pick only ONE and still have a much better game selection than the PC.
Are you seriously saying there are more games available for XBox than PC? Where do you get these figures from?
I believe he's believeing that the combined resources of a X-Box, a PS2, and PS1...is larger then the PC library.

I have some doubts of that because the largest factor is the PS1...and i=unless they've been pumping out 1000 games a year the PC library still has it beat...and it's the largest of the three.

[edit] On second thought...he's worded the stament very poorly or is being an idiot because he does indicate only one...and the X-Box has nowhere near a large library and fails on a variety of them.
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Post by phongn »

The Kernel wrote:Shep, I'm afraid that Sony has already made public its CPU design of the PS3 (did you think I pulled this from my ass?). The "Cell" processor uses 16 different MIPS cores which are all functionally identical. This makes it MUCH worse than the PS2's vector units (there aree only 2 remember?).
Sony also has the biggest FUD machine on the planet, esp. considering their PS2 promises. I'm going to reserve judgement until we see shipping hardware as to performance. Willamette was supposed to be an uber-processor based on the pre-release specs, but it didn't do so well in the 'real world,' even with SSE instructions used.
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Post by phongn »

The Kernel wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Xbox2 will have an IA-64 variant CPU similar to Deerfield (that's Itanium II LV) but based on either the Montecito or Tanglewood core. This makes a lot of sense since it's built in x86 emulation should provide enough performance for backwards compatibility and Intel would LOVE to increase the volume on these low end IA-64 chips.
I'm really skeptical to the Xbox 2 using IA64. That's a notoriously difficult platform to compile for and has not really been embraced. Microsoft doesn't seem too keen on IA64 either (though they do have XP64/IA64 out).
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Post by Hotfoot »

The Kernel wrote:Most families in America already own TV's that can play consoles as opposed to PC's that can play games.
Most families don't own high end HDTV, which would be required in order to enjoy the full graphics of the more advanced consoles. Otherwise, they have to use their old TVs and stick it out with much lower resolutions than computer monitors.
Do you know how many PC's out there lack AGP? Ever here of the i810 chipset?
So what? You don't need AGP graphics to have a computer that can play video games. Sure, some of the higher end games might strongly suggest or in rare cases require it, but PCI graphics cards can still get the job done. It might not be as pretty as it could be, but it will still be prettier than a console on a regular (non High Definition) TV screen.
Anyways, since when do you need every console to be a console gamer? I subsist just fine on my Xbox ($179) and my PS2 ($179).
You didn't get those at market peak, which was $300+ if you'd be so kind to remember. If you want to get off-market peak, then you can still get a decent gaming system or upgrade your current PC for gaming for the price of your marked-down consoles. Most PCs only need some extra RAM and a newer video card in order to start playing the vast majority of PC games out there.
A person can pick only ONE and still have a much better game selection than the PC.
Oh please, that's a load of shit. PC games include just about every genre type console games have and then a lot more. Oh, let's see, what kind of game am I in the mood for today? An arcade space shooter? I have Subspace/Continuum. How about a FPS? Well, duh. An RPG? Let's see, FF7, FF8, Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights, Grandia 2, Icewind Dale...but nah, let's do a little hack and slash. Diablo, Dungeon Siege, Die By the Sword. Wait, I'm feeling like leading my armies into battle...Homeworld, Star/Warcraft, Command and Conquer, Mechcommander, Ground Assault, Age of Empires, Total War. Nah...too twitchy. I'm looking for some good old turn-based strategy and empire building. Space Empires 4, Masters of Orion, Civilization, Star Wars: Rebellion. How about a combat flight sim? Falcon 4.0, Janes WW2 Fighters, Crimson Skies. Or wait, what about mecha combat? Heavy Gear, Terra Nova, Mechwarrior, Starsiege. Space sims would be kind of nice too, now that I think of it. How about X-Wing/TIE Fighter, Freespace, Wing Commander, Independence War, Starlancer, Tachyon, and Starshatter? Hmm...maybe I want some trading and piracy in my space sim. I-War 2, Freelancer, Starfury, Privateer, Battlecruiser Millenium, and of course, Elite.

So what's this bullshit about better selection? I defy you to come up with a list that surpasses that for console games. The simple fact is this: the only type of game that consoles have in great supply which the PC lacks are fighting games, which is hardly a loss as far as I'm concerned, since the vast majority of fighting games are piles of shit where a button-masher can beat someone who knows what they're doing. Console game selection is largely as follows:
Fighting Games
Racing Games
Role-Playing Games
Action/Adventure Games (Resident Evil, Jedi Power Battles, Mario)
Party Games (Super Smash Bros., DDR)
FPS (Halo, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark)
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Post by Uraniun235 »

The Kernel wrote:Anyways, since when do you need every console to be a console gamer? I subsist just fine on my Xbox ($179) and my PS2 ($179). A person can pick only ONE and still have a much better game selection than the PC.
Not if the player in question happens to be an RTS fan, in which case he's SOL on consoles. Or a space sim fan, or an FPS fan (There aren't that many FPS out for consoles), or a flight sim fan.

What's the real advantage of consoles? They cater to a different demographic of people with different games, the biggest demographic difference I see being the RPG fanatics, followed by the fighting gamers and the racing gamers.
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Post by The Kernel »

*sigh* I can see that everyone is intent on taking my comments out of context. What I meant by a better selection for Xbox and PS2 owners is that there are more blockbuster titles each year for consoles than PC's. This is highly subjective of course, but then I'm a little biased towards the console side because I prefer those types of games. I WAS NOT trying to suggest that the PS2, Xbox or PSX have bigger libraries.

You know, I really don't think this is worth arguing about since the two platforms co-exist well. Blizzard has announced that they are going to be focusing more heavily on consoles than before, but that doesn't mean they are going to give up their RTS PC franchises. It just means that they wanted to make a game like Starcraft: Ghost and it is better suited towards consoles.

Mike, isn't bringing personal experience into an argument one of your logical fallacies? Yes, around my neighborhood (deep in Silicon Valley) everyone has killer PC's too. That doesn't mean that 85% of America's PC's can't play a modern game to save their life. Why do you think The Sims is so popular? It will play on a damn Wal-Mart PC for Christ's sake!

Can I also point out that there is a big difference from being able to play a game and being able to play a game that looks its best? Most new PC's are sold with crap graphics cards because it isn't a feature most people look for in a PC. You go down to CompUSA or Fry's and most every PC on the shelf has a 2.6 or 2.8 GHz processor, but is saddled by a GeForce4 MX graphics card.
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Post by The Kernel »

Uraniun235 wrote:
The Kernel wrote:Anyways, since when do you need every console to be a console gamer? I subsist just fine on my Xbox ($179) and my PS2 ($179). A person can pick only ONE and still have a much better game selection than the PC.
Not if the player in question happens to be an RTS fan, in which case he's SOL on consoles. Or a space sim fan, or an FPS fan (There aren't that many FPS out for consoles), or a flight sim fan.

What's the real advantage of consoles? They cater to a different demographic of people with different games, the biggest demographic difference I see being the RPG fanatics, followed by the fighting gamers and the racing gamers.
I think you are right and that this is probably the best way of looking at it.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Kernel wrote:*sigh* I can see that everyone is intent on taking my comments out of context. What I meant by a better selection for Xbox and PS2 owners is that there are more blockbuster titles each year for consoles than PC's. This is highly subjective of course, but then I'm a little biased towards the console side because I prefer those types of games. I WAS NOT trying to suggest that the PS2, Xbox or PSX have bigger libraries.
Of course consoles have more blockbusters; the selection is smaller so the customers buy up any half-decent title by the boatload. I wouldn't use this as proof of superiority.
You know, I really don't think this is worth arguing about since the two platforms co-exist well.
Very well, concession accepted on your earlier claim that the PC market was going to dry up into nothing more than a minor niche.
Mike, isn't bringing personal experience into an argument one of your logical fallacies?
Since you also failed to produce statistics on the number of people whose computers are incapable of playing most games (keep in mind that I'm running on obsolete hardware and can still play games), I don't see where you get off demanding more from me.
Yes, around my neighborhood (deep in Silicon Valley) everyone has killer PC's too. That doesn't mean that 85% of America's PC's can't play a modern game to save their life. Why do you think The Sims is so popular? It will play on a damn Wal-Mart PC for Christ's sake!
Source for this 85% figure, please.
Can I also point out that there is a big difference from being able to play a game and being able to play a game that looks its best? Most new PC's are sold with crap graphics cards because it isn't a feature most people look for in a PC.
So? You can crank the resolution on a PC game to a miniscule fraction of "its best" and it will still be sharper and clearer than a console running through a TV set.
You go down to CompUSA or Fry's and most every PC on the shelf has a 2.6 or 2.8 GHz processor, but is saddled by a GeForce4 MX graphics card.
And interestingly enough, you'll still be able to view objects clearly and sharply when you're playing games on that PC. I find it pretty funny that you've been reduced to mumbling about how most PC owners can't crank it up to 1280x1024 at 60fps; how many console owners are seeing those kinds of resolutions?
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Shogoki wrote: Actually, you require less optimization on a console, well, kindda, you see, you need less frames per second to look smooth when you move around slowly, and at low resolutions with low quality textures, it's just easier than trying to pull 60+ FPS at high res, you HAVE to do it, or else the game would be unplayable when the fast aiming comes around.
That is my point, the advantge lies with the consoles because they can fudge more, also they dont need to try and optomize code for a load of different possible hardware configurations, every X-Box or PS2 is the same on the inside as every other one.
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Post by The Kernel »

Darth Wong wrote:[quote="The Kernel
Yes, around my neighborhood (deep in Silicon Valley) everyone has killer PC's too. That doesn't mean that 85% of America's PC's can't play a modern game to save their life. Why do you think The Sims is so popular? It will play on a damn Wal-Mart PC for Christ's sake!
Source for this 85% figure, please.
Alright, I concede, I have absolutely no idea where to look for such information without some serious digging through NPD Funworld/Gartner reports. I'll see what I can come up with.
Can I also point out that there is a big difference from being able to play a game and being able to play a game that looks its best? Most new PC's are sold with crap graphics cards because it isn't a feature most people look for in a PC.
So? You can crank the resolution on a PC game to a miniscule fraction of "its best" and it will still be sharper and clearer than a console running through a TV set.
Did I say resolution? Who said anything about resolution? Perhaps you are unaware that a GPU has to natively support certain standards of hardware to process certain effects. The GeForce4 MX, which is still a big seller in new PC's, only supports the DirectX 7 standard in hardware. That means that all those pretty Doom III effects that you like so much won't even exist.

You think that a GeForce FX 5200 or Radeon 9200 will do you any better? These chips have been castrated beyond belief and even at 800x600, they simply can't maintain a decent framerate in games like Doom III will all the effects turned on (this I can prove btw).

Realistically you NEED to buy at least a $150 video card if you want to stay current for the next 18 months alone.
You go down to CompUSA or Fry's and most every PC on the shelf has a 2.6 or 2.8 GHz processor, but is saddled by a GeForce4 MX graphics card.
And interestingly enough, you'll still be able to view objects clearly and sharply when you're playing games on that PC. I find it pretty funny that you've been reduced to mumbling about how most PC owners can't crank it up to 1280x1024 at 60fps; how many console owners are seeing those kinds of resolutions?
If you have to compromise things like bump-mapping, realtime lights and pixel effects then I'd say you are making a compromise. Don't you understand the differance between a DX7 and a DX9 card?
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Post by Darth Wong »

Of course you're making a compromise if you back off on quality settings. So what? The fact remains that games are still sharper and clearer on PCs, even underpowered ones. Triumphantly crowing that a typical PC owner does not use anti-aliasing is not much of a victory when the typical console owner is looking at blurry beachball-sized pixels on a TV set.
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Post by Shinova »

PC games, I suppose, can be better than their console counterparts simply by the capability of modding and personal configuration, but that's kinda obvious so I'll just rest on that.
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Post by Xon »

Shogoki wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:
The next-gen consoles will probably be pushing around 100 GB/s of memory bandwidth
I want links.
I just want to know how memory bandwidth is suppoused to magically increase processors's throughput.
Memory bandwith is one of the biggest limiting factor for computers, not matter what the age.

Increase memory access speed == improved overall speed.
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Post by Darth Wong »

ggs wrote:Increase memory access speed == improved overall speed.
Not by as much as people would think. For example, you're lucky to get a 5-10% increase in performance if you double or even quadruple memory bandwidth. This has been observed before, with Rambus and DDR vs SDR RAM. And if your memory bandwidth exceeds the rate at which the CPU can ask for data, then further boosts will result in a 0% performance increase.
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Post by The Kernel »

Darth Wong wrote:Of course you're making a compromise if you back off on quality settings. So what? The fact remains that games are still sharper and clearer on PCs, even underpowered ones. Triumphantly crowing that a typical PC owner does not use anti-aliasing is not much of a victory when the typical console owner is looking at blurry beachball-sized pixels on a TV set.
Mike, why are you evading my question? I WASN'T talking about AA. I was talking about pixel shader effects, vertex shader effects, tessellation, bump-mapping, real-time lighting, etc. This shit isn't possible on DX7 cards because they didn't have the hardware for it.

Let me give you an analogy. A GPU is like an assembly line. It has many different lines that do many different things. When each new version of DirectX comes out, new assembly lines are needed to make new parts for the finished product. Without the extra assembly lines, you can't make the product.

Oh sure, Doom III has an NV10 codepath built for DirectX 7 users. But Carmack himself has downplayed this since he has said you basically need a DX8+ card to play Doom.
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Post by The Kernel »

Darth Wong wrote:
ggs wrote:Increase memory access speed == improved overall speed.
Not by as much as people would think. For example, you're lucky to get a 5-10% increase in performance if you double or even quadruple memory bandwidth. This has been observed before, with Rambus and DDR vs SDR RAM. And if your memory bandwidth exceeds the rate at which the CPU can ask for data, then further boosts will result in a 0% performance increase.
For CPU's sure, but for graphics cards (especially for the new 16-pipline, 64-bit color chips on the horizon) performance scales linerly with bandwidth. Take a look at the GeForce 2 of yore. Leave the core alone and crank up the bandwidth and you get 10% performance for every 10% increase in bandwidth.
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Post by Darth Wong »

The Kernel wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Of course you're making a compromise if you back off on quality settings. So what? The fact remains that games are still sharper and clearer on PCs, even underpowered ones. Triumphantly crowing that a typical PC owner does not use anti-aliasing is not much of a victory when the typical console owner is looking at blurry beachball-sized pixels on a TV set.
Mike, why are you evading my question? I WASN'T talking about AA. I was talking about pixel shader effects, vertex shader effects, tessellation, bump-mapping, real-time lighting, etc. This shit isn't possible on DX7 cards because they didn't have the hardware for it.
And I'm talking about image clarity, which is more important than all of that shit. By the way, in case you sold your brain to gypsies, this entire thread is specifically about shooters, where a lack of image clarity means DEATH.
Let me give you an analogy.
Spare me your condescending bullshit. You really think bump mapping and fancy shading means dick-all when you're looking at a TV set whose truly useful resolution is well below 640x480?
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Post by The Kernel »

Darth Wong wrote:And I'm talking about image clarity, which is more important than all of that shit. By the way, in case you sold your brain to gypsies, this entire thread is specifically about shooters, where a lack of image clarity means DEATH.
Well then I guess there isn't anything more to argue about. I doubt very much that a dietribe from me on the importance of programmable shader will net anything.
Spare me your condescending bullshit. You really think bump mapping and fancy shading means dick-all when you're looking at a TV set whose truly useful resolution is well below 640x480?
And I am supposed to know your level of GPU design knowledge how? I realize that you are an engineer but you were going on about AA settings without addressing my point. If you want to insult me fine, but I didn't intend to be condencending in the slightest.
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Post by Xon »

Darth Wong wrote:
ggs wrote:Increase memory access speed == improved overall speed.
Not by as much as people would think. For example, you're lucky to get a 5-10% increase in performance if you double or even quadruple memory bandwidth. This has been observed before, with Rambus and DDR vs SDR RAM. And if your memory bandwidth exceeds the rate at which the CPU can ask for data, then further boosts will result in a 0% performance increase.
No kidding, it only applies if you have a memory staved processor.

There is more to it than just the RAM stick memory access speed(Rambus, DDR, SDR etc), how fast the memory bus can shunt data around is also important.

But there is a very very big reason CPU/GPUs have onboard caches. These have much faster memory, and this provides some fairly dramatically improvements on access speed.

On modern hardwar, if you serially accessing memory, memory pre-fetches make a hell of a difference.

On modern hardware, the memory access speed (this is not the same as memory speed) is a serious limiter.
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2000AD
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Post by 2000AD »

Hotfoot wrote: the only type of game that consoles have in great supply which the PC lacks are fighting games, which is hardly a loss as far as I'm concerned, since the vast majority of fighting games are piles of shit where a button-masher can beat someone who knows what they're doing
The PC has one of the best fighting games ever: One must Fall 2097 !!! Even better it is now free to download form Fileplanet or a variety of other places.
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Re: FPS games on consoles vs PCs

Post by Hotfoot »

The Kernel wrote:Did I say resolution? Who said anything about resolution?
The Kernel's Left Hand isn't telling the Right Hand what it wrote:The kicker here is the higher resolution of the PC games. This was an unfortunate side effect of both the slow adoption of HDTV and the lack of speedy memory chips during the Xbox's launch (for those who don't know, faster memory is key to running at higher resolutions). The next-gen consoles will probably be pushing around 100 GB/s of memory bandwidth so making all games 1080i native won't be a problem. Five years may seem like a long time for a single hardware platform but I am constantly amazed by the amount of power developers have pushed from the Xbox given the relatively antiquated architechture. Have you seen Sudeki yet? Best damn graphics I've ever seen.
There, you said it. Now, on to the next part.
Anyways, as time rolls on I think that the PC will become more and more of a niche market. It won't die anytime soon and AAA titles will always sell well enough to keep the key developers making games, but the PC is going to lose a lot of its strengths versus consoles. I only wonder if console control systems will continue to evolve as well.
There are several strengths that the PC will never lose to consoles. Consoles are specialized, and are hurt severely by it. It's hard to justify a console purchase for anything but gaming. You can purchase a gaming PC and use it for a host of different tasks which can be completely seperate from gaming.
You think that a GeForce FX 5200 or Radeon 9200 will do you any better? These chips have been castrated beyond belief and even at 800x600, they simply can't maintain a decent framerate in games like Doom III will all the effects turned on (this I can prove btw).
Spec-tac-ular, I don't care. Graphics cards are only one piece of the puzzle, and if DOOM 3's latest leaked Alpha or Beta doesn't run smoothly on your machine, it doesn't fucking matter because it's not the final fucking released code! Of course a fucking leaked Alpha isn't going to be a smooth as the final product, the same is just as true with consoles as PCs. If you got your hands on the original alpha of FF7 and tried to run it on your PS1, it would have looked like shit and been as buggy as hell.

Meanwhile, on the real side of things, let's look at why you need to occasionally upgrade your hardware for PC games...could it be that PC games are continually improving by leaps and bounds? Why, yes it could! With consoles, you have several years where the only improvements are in optimization of code and better use of the hardware available. In PC gaming, the amount of power available combined with the continued optimization of code (albiet at a somewhat slower rate) combine to create a massive increase in graphics in comparison to consoles. The consoles are still trying to catch up to even come close to PC graphics and speed.

So if a game comes out that pushes the bleeding edge of graphics, like Unreal or Morrowind, yes, your system may not run it very well (or even at all) unless you upgrade. However, you can still play all ther other games out there, the vast majority of which don't need insanely high spec systems to run. If you want, you can upgrade your system, but nobody is forcing you. Up until you can't run 50%-80% of the new games, upgrading is not required. You can still run most games with a GeForce2 quite nicely, I know I could.

Meanwhile, if a console game comes out that lags like a bitch and makes your system chug, you're shit out of luck. You can't hope for a patch that improves the code, you can't put in some more memory or a new graphics card, it's just going to lag and there's nothing you can do about it. Maybe in three or four years the next generation console will come out, and it can run the game just fine, but by then there will be new games out, and that one just won't be worth playing anymore.

Then there's reverse compatability. Despite the problems people have with getting some older games to run on newer operating systems, the fact of the matter is that PCs are the ultimate universal gaming platform. Between Dual-Booting and Emulation, you can play just about any game ever made, PC or Console, on just one computer. For most people, obsolete consoles get left behind on the shelf, gathering dust as the new consoles come in. Old PC gear can be put to uses other than gaming once it becomes past its prime. You can donate old systems to your local public schools or other charities, you can salvage perfectly good parts for new systems, you can use it as a webserver or game server, or you can wipe it and give it to the kids to use so that they don't fuck up your personal PC. And a modern, brand-spanking new PC is just as capable of playing Morrowind as Daggerfall. It can play Wing Commander: Prophecy and Wing Commander 1. Not only that, but third-party programs do exist that allow PCs to play newer (disk-based) console games without needing a console. Imagine what could be done if Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo got off their asses and provided full PC support! They wouldn't have to spend as much money selling those pesky standalone systems at a loss (though they still could), and thus make MORE MONEY from what brings in the big bucks, the individual games themselves.

Also, consider this: you said that more blockbuster games come out per year for consoles than for PCs. I'm going to ask you to consider looking at that example harder. How long are these games? What is the gameplay like? How is the replayability? How well does a game have to sell to be a blockbuster? Are you considering the quality of the game, or just the units it moved? Deer Hunter and Millionare were very, very popular PC games, but most gamers considered them to be shit.

How about you tell us what games you feel were console blockbusters in the last year, and I'll come up with what games I feel were PC blockbusters in the past year. Then we can compare the quality of the PC blockbusters to the Console blockbusters.
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