And the evil Dark Lord is defeated! *SPOILERS*

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2003-12-12 03:05pm

Im exploring the game in the *CHEAT* mode right now, after finishing all legit.
Its quite interesting - but beware, DO NOT use level/exp cheats when you still haven't obtained your jedi class. Max class level in this game is 20 - I now got 10 scout, 10 jedi guardian - and not a zilch more. That sucks.

And the best planet - for all kinds of characters - is Korriban.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-12-12 05:55pm

Try not to get past lvl 4 in your class. Taris is perfectly winnable in level 4, even if you want to kill Bendak (just use a sithload of grenades), that way you get lots of Jedi levels.

And of course don't put a single point in ranged feats.

Tolya · Post by **Tolya** » 2003-12-12 07:04pm

Okay, I saw the other end of the game - the sith end, where I have joined Bastila. This was a bit awkward, since I played a rather 'grey' character throughout the whole story - I was eager to help and defend, but I also jumped easily to any fight. I loved Korriban that way:
- Release them. It's my decision.
- Why?
- Because I will kill you if you don't

On Star Forge I was maybe in 1/4 way up the light side. On the beginning of the game I assumed that the thing I want is to kill and take revenge on Malak by whatever means necessary. Character actually made much more sense that way - being either a total good-guy or a total sith asshole smells nonsense to me. The way I played the game...well, I joined with Bastila, at that point I had to kill Jolee and Juuhani, and later on Mission and Zaalbar. Too bad that happened, I spared Carth though (I played a female character and got into that romance stuff).

I must say the dark ending was good, although the thing that 'didn't fit' into my character was killing Jolee, Juuhani, Zaalbar and Mission - I simply had no gain in getting rid of them - and they even helped me to get to Malak.
Oh well, I suppose that it was a 'point past which there is no return' in the game and it had to be that way. Pity.

What bugged me was the ending scene, when Revan stands before his/her new followers - and it was like 20 of them? C'mon, I wanted a monumental army spreading up to the horizon, all under my command, with sith fighters flying above. The 20-30 group was acceptable for the light ending, but it certainly looked bad the other way: "Me And my mighty, unstoppable, powerful army will crush the...uh-oh, where is everyone?"

Names: I named my character Kareel and it sounded reasonably for a woman, but a woman whose name is 'Revan' does not convince me. Btw, anyone noticed that most of the dark jedi's on Star Forge are women:)?

And I liked the light ending better, it was idealistic, with medals, congratulations, remarks how I will enter history and a squadron of fighters flying above. Add music and you have it - a traditional Starwars ending

I felt like watching "RotJ" again. I loved it

The game *could* be a bit longer (it took around 30 hours for me to finish it for the first time, which is around a week of heavy gaming).
IF the game was Fallout2-size and spanned more quests and more...of everything...well, Im just complaining that its over. Replayability isnt best, because you already know the plot and its twists. For the first time my hands were shaking when Malak told me I (my character) was/am Revan. Had to think about it for a few minutes and decide what to do. It was great, never experienced anything like that in a game. Like katharsis (which devoted me entirelly to the light side).

I wish I could have my memory wiped out of the memories of this game and re-discover it. And again and again.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-13 01:01am

About items worth buying, there's an awesome belt for sale at Aratech on Dantooine, 8500 credits, +2 strength and +2 for all saves. Then of course there's all the Yavin items for HK-47. It's too bad my dark side character won't be able to use that wisdom increasing Jedi artifact I'm going to find on Kashyyk, but oh well.

consequences · Post by **consequences** » 2003-12-13 02:41am

My uber-evil dark side(x-box, so I missed some stuff that undoubtedly appears in the PC vesion) did everything on the one guys list, plus:

1: Betrayed the Hidden Beks, killed most of them, then walked back to the Vukar base to dispose of the last room, turned around again to kill Gadon, then came back to get my payment from the Vukars for the assassination.

2: Sold the map to the promised land to Igear, and laughed at Rukil

3: Stood and watched the one girl's brother die at the gate

4: Killed the alien who helped hide the bodies of the first Sith Patrol I encountered

5: Killed each and every person who tried to surrender or bargain for their lives that the game would let me

6: Threatened to tell Davik that his pleasure slaves sucked

7: Took a dive in the dance audition

8: Killed those drunks near the beginning

and that's just on Taris. Knowledge is power, Power corrupts. Study hard, be Evil.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-13 03:51am

If you took the evil option for every single choice, can you still beat the game?

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-13 10:58am

neoolong wrote:If you took the evil option for every single choice, can you still beat the game?

Yes...they literally just give ugly response for characters...some choices don't do squat.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-13 12:20pm

consequences wrote:1: Betrayed the Hidden Beks, killed most of them, then walked back to the Vukar base to dispose of the last room, turned around again to kill Gadon, then came back to get my payment from the Vukars for the assassination.

See, I'm a wimp, I couldn't do it! I figured that the Dark Side wasn't just about being mindlessly evil. Road to hell and best intentions and all that.

2: Sold the map to the promised land to Igear, and laughed at Rukil

SHIT! You can do that?! It never occured to me! (makes note for when he replays)

3: Stood and watched the one girl's brother die at the gate

Didn't do it because I wanted experience.

4: Killed the alien who helped hide the bodies of the first Sith Patrol I encountered

In the apartments? Shit, should've done that too.

5: Killed each and every person who tried to surrender or bargain for their lives that the game would let me

Yeah that was on my list too.

6: Threatened to tell Davik that his pleasure slaves sucked

Shit, should've done that.

7: Took a dive in the dance audition

Didn't do that, wanted the XP.

8: Killed those drunks near the beginning

The Sith soldiers killed them before I could draw my vibrosword.

Extra things I've done since then:

- Tatooine

1. Thanks bitch, I'll take that huge 500 credit wraid plate, screw your dead husband.

2. Threatened a hunter so badly he left the lodge

3. Threatened some Czerka tosser in the cantina

4. Threatened that Ithorian meatbag to sell HK-47 to me for a discount

5. In the Sand People camp, rescued the Jawas, then hit up their leader for more of a reward using force persuade

6. Betrayed the hunter who's hunting the krayt dragon, getting his share of the loot (wanted two krayt pearls, one for my lightsabre, one for Juhanis)

7. Gave one krayt pearl to the Sand People Chief, to listen to their history, once it was done, I told HK-47 to kill him, which he did quite happily. We then slaughtered every Sand "Person" we could find, taking their Gaffi Sticks to collect the bounty. Made quite a tidy profit out of that (1350 credits for the regular gaffi sticks alone, excluding the chieftain's one)

8. Fooled Nico at the swoop track into taking Motta's crappy deal. If Force Persuade was an option then, I definitely used it.

9. Advised Zaalbar to side with his slaver brother on Kashyyk. I didn't really want to do this, but the light side points you gain for doing anything else is just absurd, and my face had gotten so twisted I looked downright *normal* after that. So I loaded the game. I still got Bacca's sword, so fuck it, what do I care. Zaalbar doesn't think much of me anymore though, but he still owes me a life debt, so fuck him.

10. Revealed that Jaraak murdered that Roowir guy, and urged the holder of laws to kill him so I could get his stuff, not revealing anything in his defense.

11. Told Matto about Eli's treachery, and then urged him to kill him when he found out. I then used force persuade to taint him further.

12. Threatened a Sith officer on Manaan. She called a guard over, who said he heard what I said (something along the lines of "I'll split you from head to toe, how's that for wrath?") and that I was going to be arrested. I used Force Persuade and had him arrest the Sith instead. She was beside herself with surprise, of course.

13. Started the Geohadran assassination missions. Killed the guy on Dantooine, the two guys on Manaan so far.

14. Hit up that swoop racer cassandra for credits.

That's about it so far

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-13 01:15pm

Then you are learning very well Vympel.

Wait till you get very close to the end

If you EVER hated Mission and her bitching...one little deed makes it ALL worth it...heh, heh.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-13 02:56pm

You can threaten and extort more people at the Tatooine swoop office.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-13 10:20pm

Ghost Rider wrote:
If you EVER hated Mission and her bitching...one little deed makes it ALL worth it...heh, heh.

Oh dear, that doesn't sound very good

Oh yeah, also on Tatooine I let that guy get blown up by his malfunctioning battle droids. I made a comment about watching while sipping ice-water

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2003-12-13 10:24pm

Vympel wrote:Oh yeah, also on Tatooine I let that guy get blown up by his malfunctioning battle droids. I made a comment about watching while sipping ice-water

Yeah, even playing a full light-sider I let him die. First time, I didn't help him and the second time I intentionally mis-repaired enough droids. Can't wait to be evil to him.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-12-13 11:30pm

Well, I just made a large post about my thoughts on the game, too bad the board crapped on me when I hit submit... I'll post it later.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-12-14 03:40am

OK, first of all, awesome game, that much is obvious. My main gripe is that there's just not enough length in the game for the character development potential it has. I was easily level 20 by the time I got to the Star Forge, and I had not done a significant amount of the side quests. With the exceptions of Carth and to lesser degrees Bastila and Canderous, I really hadn't had the time or oppurtunity to get to know or even use the other characters. I got the Kashyyyk Star Map last, so I didn't have Jolee until after I'd lost Bastila (though he spoke about her as if he knew her the whole time

). I used him a lot after that, but by then Kashyyyk was almost done and then its just the run through the Star Forge planet and station, Jolee was so useful and yet the character development just wasn't there when there was so much potential for it. Sure, I talked to him several times, but that feels rushed (the first few that I listened to were worded in such a way as to hint at being Darth Revan... unfortunately, I was already well aware of this fact). Same for the other characters. HK-47 I liked and used a bit more than the other "backseat" characters, but I only got a couple of repairs in before his full functionality was restored, and then I couldn't get anything more out of him at all. Mission, who's she? She was still at level 8 by the endgame, while my character, Carth, Jolee and a couple other regulars were 18, 19, or 20. Good Scoundrel skills of course, but... what's the point really? I figured Zaalbar would be good to have while on Kashyyyk, too bad he's not allowed with you for most of the time. T3-M4, of course, was not all that useful and only got used a couple of times... on top of zero development of any kind of personality for the little fellow. Canderous was cool, talked to him a bit and used him for the Leviathan breakout, but again... there just wasn't space in the game to check out all the characters, and he got sidelined because of it. Juhani was useful for all-Jedi parties (which kick ass IMO), but as above there just wasn't room for her.

Now that I've finished the game as a light side master, I feel like I missed out on so much. My only saves are my main one I made before leaving the Ebon Hawk on the Star Forge itself, then I have a temp save right as I freed the last Jedi captive against Malak, so I can't do anything with that character anymore. I don't want to blitz through every character's life story on board Ebon Hawk, that feels so cheap. Yet I feel like I lost so much of the game.

I hope against hope that they make an expansion so you can port your character and party into it and continue on... Jebus. I'm trying to start another game as a bounty hunter-type; not outright evil but devoid of any morality at the same time, but its hard to get any place, I keep thinking of my main game, with the character I invested a lot in, and the stuff I didn't do and can't do now with said character... I gotta give BioWare credit for making a game this powerful. Only Baldur's Gate II, Morrowind, and Deus Ex have produced this kind of effect on me, but those were more... satisfying, KotOR took a step beyond to the point of being unfulfilling in a way, almost depressing.

I also don't think there was enough Sith slaughtering. Granted, its not an FPS like JKII and JA, but I found the sum total of all the combat to be a bit lacking. The plot was fantastic, of course - kudos to the devs. But the content behind seemed iffy and a bit short. I think they should've decreased XP rewards, especially per kill, and put in more of... everything. There were, what, 4 major areas on Tatooine? Fairly small, understandably, but it just felt like a little side jaunt, not an all-important quest to find the Star Forge. The one plot qualm I had was the lack of light shone upon the whole deal about being Revan... the idea and everything behind was nothing short of amazing, but no matter the dialogue choices, your character and the others are pretty much, "Cool, whatever. As long as you don't act like how you did before, its cool man." Um... if I were in that position, I think I'd be screaming at everyone and curled up in a fetal position in my bunk, shaken to the core about the entire life I thought I had being a complete lie, or if the whole thing is even true.

But, when all is said and done, few games keep me up to 5 or 6 AM before I go to bed (This, Neverwinter Nights, Star Wars Galaxies and possibly Morrowind to date). Very impressive game.

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-12-14 04:22am

Also, I played the first time around with a female character, did I just miss all the Carth stuff? I talked to him every time I could, but all that ever really happened was he flirted with my character once on Taris, and then professed his love right before leaving the Ratakat planet for the Star Forge. Rereading these posts, it seems like there was a bit more than that.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-14 04:36am

It seems like it adds to replay value to a degree to use different characters in your party.

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2003-12-14 06:31am

JediNeophyte wrote:OK, first of all, awesome game, that much is obvious. My main gripe is that there's just not enough length in the game for the character development potential it has. I was easily level 20 by the time I got to the Star Forge, and I had not done a significant amount of the side quests.

I think that was the point of the whole game. You're supposed to be level 20 by then, whether or not you complete sidequests.

With the exceptions of Carth and to lesser degrees Bastila and Canderous, I really hadn't had the time or oppurtunity to get to know or even use the other characters.

A trick I figured out after my first time through was to talk to each character at least once per level. (Every time you level and everytime they level. More if they've been auto-leveled more than one level.) Yeah, it's a pain sort of ? you have to board the Hawk, come back out, pick the right people, level them up and then talk to them ? but that's how you get to know the characters. My second time through, I did everyone's side quests ? just to say that I've done them.

There's some good interaction with each of them, except for T3. As much as I wanted to be fond of the little guy, that character was a dud. The most interaction will be between you and Carth or Bastila.

I got the Kashyyyk Star Map last, so I didn't have Jolee until after I'd lost Bastila (though he spoke about her as if he knew her the whole time ). Jolee was so useful and yet the character development just wasn't there when there was so much potential for it.

That's the one thing that would suck about doing the planets in that order. Jolee became one of my favorite characters once I went all the way through with him. Pick up Jolee earlier, like first or second planet after Dantooine. He's got oodles of development.

I only got a couple of repairs in before his full functionality was restored, and then I couldn't get anything more out of him at all.

I think you need a repair level of 17 to get the full functionality out of him.

Mission, who's she? She was still at level 8 by the endgame, while my character, Carth, Jolee and a couple other regulars were 18, 19, or 20. Good Scoundrel skills of course, but... what's the point really?

Sounds like it could be a bug. You're prompted to level characters when you take them with you, so I'm not sure what happened here. There's really not much to her story.

...there just wasn't space in the game to check out all the characters...

Well, I agree with you in idea. It may have been nice to have the character development unfold with the story, like having the side quests triggered automatically (retaining the option to not do them if you so desire). But with only a little extra effort, I was able to finish all their quests and in less time than my first run through of the game. (Albeit, not by very much.)

Juhani was useful for all-Jedi parties (which kick ass IMO), but as above there just wasn't room for her.

I took her with me only because she was Jedi. Otherwise, I didn't much care for the character.

Now that I've finished the game as a light side master, I feel like I missed out on so much.

Yeah, only half the game!

(I'm referring to the Dark Side path.)

I don't want to blitz through every character's life story on board Ebon Hawk, that feels so cheap. Yet I feel like I lost so much of the game.

Good that you don't want to do it that way, because you can't.

I also don't think there was enough Sith slaughtering. Granted, its not an FPS like JKII and JA, but I found the sum total of all the combat to be a bit lacking.

I could counter that I think there was too much slaughtering. That's the nature of many computer games, whether RPG or FPS. There is a lot of killing going on, even by characters that profess to be servants of all that is good and light in the universe.

Fairly small, understandably, but it just felt like a little side jaunt, not an all-important quest to find the Star Forge.

That's my one big complaint about the game. The areas to explore were incredibly small.

Um... if I were in that position, I think I'd be screaming at everyone and curled up in a fetal position in my bunk, shaken to the core about the entire life I thought I had being a complete lie, or if the whole thing is even true.

Okay, make that two big complaints. I'm fine with playing a light side character up to the point where you discover your real identity. At that point, I would have liked to be able to be angry at Bastila and the Jed Council without it taking me down the path to the Dark Side. It was a very dangerous game they played there, and I'm not sure if it was the morally right thing to do. As your character develops, you're ability to divine information about the location of the Star Maps and Star Forge aren't anything that another character couldn't have done. Whatever remains of you being Revan didn't help you or hinder you in that quest. The only remaining reason to have that as a plot device is to explain your prodigious and uncanny Force abilities.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-14 12:03pm

CorSec wrote:As your character develops, you're ability to divine information about the location of the Star Maps and Star Forge aren't anything that another character couldn't have done. Whatever remains of you being Revan didn't help you or hinder you in that quest.

No, you weren't paying attention

1. Revan's memories= the visions you and Bastila share. Without you, they can't retrieve them, and they have no clue for where to look on the respective worlds. Or even that there was something on Dantooine in the first place, for that matter.
2. Only you understand Ratakan
3. Only you can activate the Star Map on Kashyyk (it's tuned to Revan, remember)

The only remaining reason to have that as a plot device is to explain your prodigious and uncanny Force abilities.

A refreshing change from the Jedi Academy/Outcast crap foisted on us before, to be sure, but as you can see, being Darth Revan is quite necessary.

Jedineo, you really have to do Tatooine and Kashyyk first- Manaan and Korriban don't offer up any NPCs, save them for last.

I'm close to finishing the dark side plot now (on the star forge planet)- and once again I haven't seen the end of Juhani's sidequest. The fucking thing just won't progress beyond meeting that cockhead Twi'lek. Pisses me off. Everything else done though, including the Mission & Griff sidequest (I poisoned her against that deadbeat).

And for the life of me I don't understand this complaint about characther development for *T3*- hello, he's practically a utensil. Can you imagine having a discussion with R2 about anything remotely involving?

"Cool, whatever. As long as you don't act like how you did before, its cool man." Um... if I were in that position, I think I'd be screaming at everyone and curled up in a fetal position in my bunk, shaken to the core about the entire life I thought I had being a complete lie, or if the whole thing is even true.

Er- the latter part of that paragraph is *your* reaction, whereas the former is the NPCs reaction. And their reaction depends heavily on your dark/light side leanings. Carth makes a bigger stink about it for one. Mission is an impressionable 14 year old, you built HK-47 yourself, Zaalbar has a life-debt, Juhani reacts quite visibly (talk to her after) and Jolee is neutral/good, as always.

trick I figured out after my first time through was to talk to each character at least once per level. (Every time you level and everytime they level. More if they've been auto-leveled more than one level.) Yeah, it's a pain sort of ? you have to board the Hawk, come back out, pick the right people, level them up and then talk to them ? but that's how you get to know the characters. My second time through, I did everyone's side quests ? just to say that I've done them.

Why not just use the Party Selection button?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-14 01:24pm

I found Manaan easy enough that you can do it before you have everyone.

I did it, Tatooine, Manaan, Kashyyyk, Korriban.

By the time I finished Tatooine I was already pretty damn powerful that damn near nothing could stop me.

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2003-12-14 03:37pm

Vympel wrote:No, you weren't paying attention

Yes I was, I just forgot.

Or even that there was something on Dantooine in the first place, for that matter.

Oh, they knew something was on Dantooine, they sent Jedi Nemo to investigate it. But he was weak and died in the first chamber.

2. Only you understand Ratakan

And Wookie-speak and Manaanish and Gamorean and Twi'lek and Huttese and Rodian and Ithorian and Duros. Man, Spanish would have been a lot easier if I could have just pulled in from someone's mind!

3. Only you can activate the Star Map on Kashyyk (it's tuned to Revan, remember)

That cursed thing. I always mess up that last question.

I'm close to finishing the dark side plot now (on the star forge planet)- and once again I haven't seen the end of Juhani's sidequest.

Before you attack the Star Forge, go to another planet and walk around with Juhani in your party. It should trigger him to appear.

And for the life of me I don't understand this complaint about characther development for *T3*- hello, he's practically a utensil.

Yes, I know he's a utensil. Aside from breaking us into the Sith base on Taris, he's useless.

Why not just use the Party Selection button?

Now you're just making fun of me.

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2003-12-14 03:38pm

neoolong wrote:I found Manaan easy enough that you can do it before you have everyone.

It doesn't matter what order you go in. The game ramps the enemy AI for your level.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-14 03:48pm

CorSec wrote:
neoolong wrote:I found Manaan easy enough that you can do it before you have everyone.
It doesn't matter what order you go in. The game ramps the enemy AI for your level.

I suspected as much. Even so, there are less enemies to beat on Manaan than on other planets.

The only real trouble is the Sith Base.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-12-14 06:02pm

CorSec wrote:
I only got a couple of repairs in before his full functionality was restored, and then I couldn't get anything more out of him at all.
I think you need a repair level of 17 to get the full functionality out of him.

Yes, but when he finds out you're Revan, it's no longer possible to try to upgrade him at all. Even if you manage to get your repair level that high.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-12-14 06:07pm

Vympel wrote:I'm close to finishing the dark side plot now (on the star forge planet)- and once again I haven't seen the end of Juhani's sidequest. The fucking thing just won't progress beyond meeting that cockhead Twi'lek. Pisses me off. Everything else done though, including the Mission & Griff sidequest (I poisoned her against that deadbeat).

Some of the quests (I think Carth's and Juhani's) are only triggered in Dantooine, I think. I'm not that sure, but I think you understand why it becomes impossible unless you do it fast

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-12-14 07:18pm

Actually, I was able to trigger Juhani's quest on Tatooine.

It might have something to do with having to get enough of her story out to learn about her slave past.

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And the evil Dark Lord is defeated! SPOILERS