Mass Effect 3 (Spoilers)

[Gaidin]

Delightful repetition of the entrepreneurial spirit of the catalyst but my question still remains : Can anybody come up with a logical reason to why an AI would want to preserve biological races in the first place?

Things of a relatively axiomatic nature don't require logic. They're assumptions, not something based on previous assumptions. The AI wanted to preserve life, period, full stop. Why doesn't matter, just that it did. It's actions logically followed from that assumption based on it's capabilities and what it considered success.

[Aaron MkII]

There's no reason why it has to act in a logical manner, it might very well have all kinds of nutty shit in it from its creators. Look at Edi, she wanted to romance Joker.

[Anacronian]

There's no reason why it has to act in a logical manner, it might very well have all kinds of nutty shit in it from its creators. Look at Edi, she wanted to romance Joker.

So i gather your answer is no you can not think of a logical reason to why an AI would want to preserve biological life.

[Aaron MkII]

I answered earlier. It's bored and wants to watch us. Maybe it enjoys having us wander around it.

[FaxModem1]

http://i.imgur.com/lorYU.png

They're listening all right.

[phongn]

http://i.imgur.com/lorYU.png

They're listening all right.

Listening and doing are two totally different things.

[Stark]

And 'listening to what' is a relevant question when talking about any group of 'fans'.

[Zinegata]

It wanted to preserve biological life, but didn't think that individuals mattered. So, it absorbed them and used their DNA in the process of making Reapers, who would do that every 50k years to stop life from being wiped out by machine life. So, it preserves life in the form of Reapers, allows new life to become sentient, and so on, while preventing all life from being destroyed by the very machines they create. It gives up when Shepard shows up because it feels that there is no way to continue the cycle, now, as biological life has found a way to defeat the Reapers.

Delightful repetition of the entrepreneurial spirit of the catalyst but my question still remains : Can anybody come up with a logical reason to why an AI would want to preserve biological races in the first place?

Pezook's answer is the best: It was a directive by its creator, but it fucked up the directive completely.

[Zinegata]

Apparently one of the writers for ME has been posting (and then removing after an hour) about the writing process; the text is being mirrored on pastebin:

Editorial review (or lack thereof) on the ending
Things said author worked on

EDIT: It also looks like EDI and the Geth got a new writer for ME3, hence why it feels like they're more, well, organic-ized. I liked it better when they were machines.

Okay, Casey Hudson is now definitely on the black list.

[PeZook]

That would make it more akin to a VI then - AI's (at least in the ME universe) formulate their own purpose like we see in the "birthing" of EDI who only becomes a true AI once her restrictions is removed.

No, when EDI was shackled and unable to change her core programming, she was still considered an AI - so in-universe, it is perfectly possible to introduce unviolable instructions into an AIs mind.

Delightful repetition of the entrepreneurial spirit of the catalyst but my question still remains : Can anybody come up with a logical reason to why an AI would want to preserve biological races in the first place?

Do you know what logic is? Serious question.

Pezook's answer is the best: It was a directive by its creator, but it fucked up the directive completely.

Frankly, we don't even know if it fucked up ; While I think it would be a great, from an artistic standpoint, to have the catalyst become a genocidal monster because its creators lobotomized it out of fear of it becoming one, it's perfectly possible for it to be a product of a civilization that just plain doesn't value individuals. At all.

That would make it actually work perfectly within the ethical framework of its creators.

[Tolya]

Delightful repetition of the entrepreneurial spirit of the catalyst but my question still remains : Can anybody come up with a logical reason to why an AI would want to preserve biological races in the first place?

Motives like that can be established a priori without any explanation really. One can create a myriad of possible explanations, but they do not matter. Logic here is irrelevant. There is no framework for logic to operate in here, since there is no information on who created the Little Hitler, what were its motives, background, beliefs etc. Logic does not operate in vacuum. It is an examination of arguments provided, not created.

[Akhlut]

Delightful repetition of the entrepreneurial spirit of the catalyst but my question still remains : Can anybody come up with a logical reason to why an AI would want to preserve biological races in the first place?

You don't know what logical actually means, do you? Do you have a logical reason for living? Self-preservation isn't a good reason, by the by, as all that is is a logical derivation from wanting to continue living, so all your doing is making a tautology if you use self-preservation as a reason for living.

So, as I said in my first fucking post on the matter:

(...)If it is truly intelligent, it can simply want to do things for the sake of it, not necessarily for any "logical" reason. After all, "if P, then Q" statements don't really lead one to actual desires to do things, it just tells you how the world works (assuming the world follows logical processes, which may not be correct, due to the problem of induction). So, the AI can be logical in its performance of actions to reach a goal, but the formation of a goal itself doesn't really follow from any logical thinking (at least, not without prior assumptions, such as "life is good" and "war is bad" or something).

[Chardok]

From HERE

Mass Effect 3 (Bioware/EA)Never underestimate the power of an outraged fan base.

Bowing to pressure from a loud segment of players, Bioware has announced that changes are in the works for the controversial ending to role-playing smash Mass Effect 3. Details about those plans will be revealed next month.

In a post on the company's blog, Bioware co-founder Dr. Ray Muzyka said the criticisms were "incredibly painful" to the team, which had hoped to please fans with the game.
"The passionate reaction of some of our most loyal players to the current endings in Mass Effect 3 is something that has genuinely surprised us," he wrote. "This is an issue we care about deeply, and we will respond to it in a fair and timely way. … Exec Producer Casey Hudson and the team are hard at work on a number of game content initiatives that will help answer the questions, providing more clarity for those seeking further closure to their journey."

The players who weren't happy with the ending of the game have been quite effective in voicing their displeasure. A 'Retake Mass Effect 3' Facebook page has amassed over 50,000 supporters, and an associated Twitter account has over 5,000 followers.

One player even complained to the Federal Trade Commission, saying the endings amounted to false advertising on Bioware and EA's part.

While Muzyka addressed the criticisms directly, he did note that the larger reaction to the game has been positive. The changes, he said, won't come at the artistic expense of the game. And he made it clear that the attacks that have accompanied the complaints will have to stop -- immediately.

"We're working hard to maintain the right balance between the artistic integrity of the original story while addressing the fan feedback we've received," he said "[However]. some of the criticism that has been delivered in the heat of passion by our most ardent fans, even if founded on valid principles, such as seeking more clarity to questions or looking for more closure, for example — has unfortunately become destructive rather than constructive. We listen and will respond to constructive criticism, but much as we will not tolerate individual attacks on our team members, we will not support or respond to destructive commentary."

[Stark]

'The attacks will have to stop', ie 'stop costing us money'. Hilarious!

[Chardok]

BEST STORY EVER GOTY 10/10!


Now that they're "fixing" it....11/10?

[Starglider]

That would make it more akin to a VI then - AI's (at least in the ME universe) formulate their own purpose like we see in the "birthing" of EDI who only becomes a true AI once her restrictions is removed.

No, when EDI was shackled and unable to change her core programming, she was still considered an AI - so in-universe, it is perfectly possible to introduce unviolable instructions into an AIs mind.

This is a special case of the general paradox of free will. 'Formulate your own purpose' boils down to some combination of pick at random and renormalise (in a rational system, apply recursively until in a terminal state) the goal system embedded into the system at creation time. Essentially, Anacronian is wrong and everyone else is right. I wouldn't sweat it too much though, the depiction of AI in Mass Effect is about as realistic as their depiction of interstellar travel (fine for a fun space opera, but definitely not 'hard sci-fi').

[Losonti Tokash]

'The attacks will have to stop', ie 'stop costing us money'. Hilarious!

I think they're probably referring to the nutbars threatening to kill the writers and harassing them on their personal phone numbers.

[Stark]

You mean forum posters? :v

I love it though. Negative attacks will not be responded to - unless we decide to fix the ending to please you. LOL!

[Zinegata]

I kinda doubt that the writing staff is getting harassed at it's becoming well-known by the core base that the ending was the work of just Casey Hudson and Mac Walters without input from the rest of the crew.

I suspect it might be the FTC complaint and all the refunds that's really worrying Bioware.

[Losonti Tokash]

I don't particularly expect the forum lunatics to target their rage to the people responsible considering they were harassing Jennifer Hepler, who didn't work on ME3 at all. And, uh, no. The FTC complaint means precisely jack and shit and they'll treat it that way.

[Zinegata]

There's an actual thread targetting Hepler? All the threads I've seen have directed their hate towards Mac and/or Casey, plus a few for Ray because of his non-committal commitment.

[Tolya]

You mean forum posters? :v

I love it though. Negative attacks will not be responded to - unless we decide to fix the ending to please you. LOL!

Well, they are committed to listening. As opposed to them covering their ears and eyes and loudly singing see no evil hear no evil.

Oh wait, they haven't said they were looking.

[PeZook]

I suspect it might be the FTC complaint and all the refunds that's really worrying Bioware.

Frankly, I think they're more worried about DLC sales and second adopters who'd buy the game but will inevitably run into people raging about the ending.

Or they've been planning this since the beginning

[Zinegata]

Or they've been planning this since the beginning

Funnily, I was talking about this to a friend of mine who never played Mass Effect. After hearing the retardedness of the ending, his conclusion was this was deliberate: Because the writing staff don't want to write more Mass Effect and people will stop bugging them to make another Mass Effect game

[PeZook]

The marketing people will keep doing that, though. I imagine they're brainstorming right now on ways to exploit the franchise some more

BTW, FTC complaints? Over a shit ending?

It's hilarious that people will ignore gamebreaking bugs, but lodge FTC complaints over lousy endings, when the former is far more indicative of an incomplete product...