World of Tanks

[Mr Bean]

I can see the Japanese work and including the Brits is a no brainer, but won't the Italian tech tree be very short and underpowered compared to the other factions? The best tank I know would be the P40 but even that will be comparable to a Sherman/Panzer IV at best. Which experimental designs of them could compete with the upper tiers?

Would be cool to have armored cars included as well though. Italy had pretty good 'uns afaik.

Compared to the Japanese?

Gee do I want the Ha-go with the default 25mm gun? Or the top of the line 37mm cannon! Or maybe the Ha-Hi with Chi-ha 57mm turret bolted on. Well the Japanese do have an open topped 150mm gun "tank", a mainstay tank with a 47mm gun close to what the Italians had (Which was itself a copy of another gun) and then what? The Chi ha was the best produced Japanese tank unless you count "experimental" tanks that mounted guns all the way up to 75mm!. Yeah... The best the Japanese can offer is a much less armor Sherman copy which was slow as hell. After that your not even talking about experimentalist but the pure flights of fancy like the O-I super heavy tank that supposedly built with 105mm gun and 37mm rear arc defense turrets. The Italians by contrast had nothing the biggest tank purposed was the Sahariano which was a Crusader style tank copy to be armed with the 75mm. Supposedly there was plans for a Italian 90mm tank but I've never even seen an artist rendering of a 90mm in a turret of any kind on any chassis.

[wautd]

I can see the Japanese work and including the Brits is a no brainer, but won't the Italian tech tree be very short and underpowered compared to the other factions? The best tank I know would be the P40 but even that will be comparable to a Sherman/Panzer IV at best. Which experimental designs of them could compete with the upper tiers?

Would be cool to have armored cars included as well though. Italy had pretty good 'uns afaik.

Compared to the Japanese?

Gee do I want the Ha-go with the default 25mm gun? Or the top of the line 37mm cannon! Or maybe the Ha-Hi with Chi-ha 57mm turret bolted on. Well the Japanese do have an open topped 150mm gun "tank", a mainstay tank with a 47mm gun close to what the Italians had (Which was itself a copy of another gun) and then what? The Chi ha was the best produced Japanese tank unless you count "experimental" tanks that mounted guns all the way up to 75mm!. Yeah... The best the Japanese can offer is a much less armor Sherman copy which was slow as hell. After that your not even talking about experimentalist but the pure flights of fancy like the O-I super heavy tank that supposedly built with 105mm gun and 37mm rear arc defense turrets. The Italians by contrast had nothing the biggest tank purposed was the Sahariano which was a Crusader style tank copy to be armed with the 75mm. Supposedly there was plans for a Italian 90mm tank but I've never even seen an artist rendering of a 90mm in a turret of any kind on any chassis.

Men of War included some experimental Jap tanks that could nearly compete to the other heavies (although I never played much with the Japs and I think they had to get their kills from less conventional ways). Then again, I know shit about Japanese tanks, nevermind the ones on the drawing board so don't kill me if they are completely fantasy.

Mind you, the FAQ mentions they're planning to add japanese tanks, although it doesn't specify it'll be a full faction or just premium tanks.

Speaking of factions, the game could use a faction vs faction battle option.

[Mr Bean]

Men of War included some experimental Jap tanks that could nearly compete to the other heavies (although I never played much with the Japs and I think they had to get their kills from less conventional ways). Then again, I know shit about Japanese tanks, nevermind the ones on the drawing board so don't kill me if they are completely fantasy.

Well stand by because I'll teach you all about Japanese tanks in four sentences.

Aside from shitty old ones that don't count and could be penetrated by BAR gunfire at 100 meter ranges...

There were two mass produced Japanese tanks. The Ha-go (And it's derivatives) and the Chi-ha, Both tanks had early war and late war versions. Both were piles of arse but mechanically sound. The Ha-go was the light tank, the Chi-ha was the medium tank, but by internationals standards both tanks were light both in arms and armor.

The end... seriously aside from a amphibious versions of the Ha-go, the Japanese tanks were only of those two models and they stopped producing Ha-gos in 1942. From there on in it was a Chi-ha with the early war 57mm gun or the late war 47mm gun. Both had serious issues hurting even Stuarts at anything but point blank range let alone Shermans. The Japanese killed enemy tanks the WWI way. With massed artillery fire, landmines or the Japanese way with , human mines or satchel charges/suicide bombers. They lacked anything like bazookas or panzerfausts. Even lacking a decent anti-tank grenade like the RPG-43. Only Gebel grenade style "take one grenade time many other grenades to it" style improve AT grenades were used and of course did little. But of course the Japanese never really had to fight big open field engagements against armor with their own armor.

[wautd]

Men of War included some experimental Jap tanks that could nearly compete to the other heavies (although I never played much with the Japs and I think they had to get their kills from less conventional ways). Then again, I know shit about Japanese tanks, nevermind the ones on the drawing board so don't kill me if they are completely fantasy.

Well stand by because I'll teach you all about Japanese tanks in four sentences.

Aside from shitty old ones that don't count and could be penetrated by BAR gunfire at 100 meter ranges...

Ah, at least now we know why the Panzer I is included

[Phantasee]

That was more than four sentences.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Compared to the Japanese?

Gee do I want the Ha-go with the default 25mm gun? Or the top of the line 37mm cannon! Or maybe the Ha-Hi with Chi-ha 57mm turret bolted on. Well the Japanese do have an open topped 150mm gun "tank", a mainstay tank with a 47mm gun close to what the Italians had (Which was itself a copy of another gun) and then what? The Chi ha was the best produced Japanese tank unless you count "experimental" tanks that mounted guns all the way up to 75mm!. Yeah... The best the Japanese can offer is a much less armor Sherman copy which was slow as hell. .

Actually the Japanese had two production tanks better than the Shinhoto Chi-Ha: The Type 1 Medium tank Chi-He, which had better armor than the Chi-Ha and a 240 hp engine (still the same 47 mm gun, though), and the Type 3 Medium tank Chi-Nu, which was a Chi-He upgunned with a 75 mm medium velocity gun similar to the gun of the M4 Sherman or T-34-76. Some Chi-Hes were used experimentally against US forces (in Philippines I believe), but must of them were retained for defense of the home islands, as well as all Chi-Nus.

As for experimental models, there was the Type 4 Medium tank Chi-To, which was a new design with more armor, a 400 hp engine and high velocity 75 mm gun. The Chi-To actually reached pre-series production with two finished vehicles and four other in various stages of completion at the end of the war. Lastly there was the Type 5 Chi-Ri, which was prototype only. It mounted rather strangely a 37 mm gun in the hull. The only prototype had no main gun, but production versions were to have a either the same 75 mm gun as the Chi-To or an 88 mm gun converted from the Type 99 AA gun (which curiously enough was based on captured German 8.8cm/45 SK C/30 naval AA guns from China, where Germany had sold them in the late 1930s).

The Japanese also had various support tanks and tank destroyers, and some others at prototype stage at the end of the war. So they definitely had more tank and tracked AFV models than the Italians, although most of the widely deployed ones were not very good.

The Japanese did develop a bazooka analog in 1944, the Type 4 70 mm AT rocket launcher. It was produced in the thousands (3,500 pcs typically quoted), but all were reserved for defense of the home islands. The also had a factory produced hollow charge AT hand grenade designated Type 3.

[Rogue 9]

Speaking of factions, the game could use a faction vs faction battle option.

This is planned for final release, alongside clan battle options. (Right now the closest we get is getting the clan together in three man platoons, using voice chat to coordinate clicking the battle button at the same time, and hoping we end up on one team. )

[Mr Bean]

Actually the Japanese had two production tanks better than the Shinhoto Chi-Ha: The Type 1 Medium tank Chi-He, which had better armor than the Chi-Ha and a 240 hp engine (still the same 47 mm gun, though), and the Type 3 Medium tank Chi-Nu, which was a Chi-He upgunned with a 75 mm medium velocity gun similar to the gun of the M4 Sherman or T-34-76. Some Chi-Hes were used experimentally against US forces (in Philippines I believe), but must of them were retained for defense of the home islands, as well as all Chi-Nus.

The Chi-He would not be classified as a different tank only a variant as I mentioned there were variants. They did not matter, as for the Chi-Nu it never fired a shot in anger so discussing it as a Japanse tank is like speaking about German Maus tanks. Nice from a technical standpoint. Pointless from a history perspective.

From a practical standpoint, there is the Chi-Ha, and the Ha-go. Plus variants of those two tanks, done end of story. Needless to say as I said world of tanks has a self propelled gun, two tanks and two variants ready to go, but other than that, any other Japanese tanks did not exist or would be very sad tanks in World of Tanks. How fun would be driving the 57mm popgun equipped tank that goes 9 km/h be after all? However in China they worked fine in 1936-1939.

*Edit
Type 89A Chi-Ro is the tank. 25 km/h is the stated top speed, but any good tank history book which covers the Japanese will mention gear shifting breakage and Sagami conducted it's "off road" speed testing on a flat dirt lot to get the 25 km/h test. In mud or any kind of difficult terrain you get a tank to being with going over 12 km/h meant you had a great chance of throwing a track while turning. So the Japanese tanks started driving in strait lines then stopping dead still to turn to minimize this issue. Which just caused another bigger issue of course.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Actually the Japanese had two production tanks better than the Shinhoto Chi-Ha: The Type 1 Medium tank Chi-He, which had better armor than the Chi-Ha and a 240 hp engine (still the same 47 mm gun, though), and the Type 3 Medium tank Chi-Nu, which was a Chi-He upgunned with a 75 mm medium velocity gun similar to the gun of the M4 Sherman or T-34-76. Some Chi-Hes were used experimentally against US forces (in Philippines I believe), but must of them were retained for defense of the home islands, as well as all Chi-Nus.

The Chi-He would not be classified as a different tank only a variant as I mentioned there were variants. They did not matter, as for the Chi-Nu it never fired a shot in anger so discussing it as a Japanse tank is like speaking about German Maus tanks. Nice from a technical standpoint. Pointless from a history perspective.

What are you blabbering about? The Chi-He was classified as a different tank by the Japanese and it was significantly upgraded from the Shinhoto Chi-Ha (which did not receive a new designation, because only the turret was different from the basic Type 97 Chi-Ha). It had twice the frontal armor and a much more powerful engine. Furthermore, more than 150 Chi-Nus were manufactured, so it is in no way comparable to prototype only tanks such as the Maus. Besides, the game already has many prototype only tanks with many more planned in the German and Soviet tech trees, so even just a prototype like the Type 5 Chi-Ri could still be included in the game.

[Highlord Laan]

Cool, I got a beta key. I'll start trying this out once I get back from work.

[wautd]

So I got my first heavy tank. A KV-1. Finally something speedy again. (before you start, I was used to a Hetzer)

[Ritterin Sophia]

Yeah I got a Pz.IV, need a new suspension so it can actually move in more than a straight line.

[Rogue 9]

I'm currently working on my new T-34-85; once I get it up to speed I'll start alternating it with my KV-3. I like the medium playstyle, but there's something to be said for having a big bruiser with a giant gun. About half the time my KV-3 ends up the top tier tank in a match, even. That's always loads of fun.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Yeah I got a Pz.IV, need a new suspension so it can actually move in more than a straight line.

Even with upgrades, PzIV performs surprisingly poorly. The III/IV absolutely runs rings around it, on top of having better armor to boot. And for some stupid reason, the upgraded III/IV turret, which is identical to the stantard IV turret, has better armor facings as well.

[wautd]

It's a shame that PzIV's are so rare. Historically there were many versions, but in this game you only get to chose between one, and for the few that don't pick one of those experimentals, they fit that fugly kingtiger-like turret on it which looks so cartoonishly huge. I want the sexy one with the armor skirts on it dammit

[Highlord Laan]

Playing in a BT-2 right now, saving points towards a BT-7, and eventually a T-34. Getting blasted by autocannon users is so annoying. I've come to fear the PzIII, as it generally hits harder and has heavier armor than me.

German tankers have it so easy in Tier one.

Oh, and having tank destroyers in a light tank fight is so one-sidedly unfair it's infuriating. I was having a good run, taking out three enemy BT-2's, an MS-1, and a PzIII when all of a sudden *BLAM* an AT-1 scatters my valiant little 45mm BT-2 across the countryside in a single blow to the side.

[Exonerate]

I signed up for the Beta upon seeing this thread and managed to get in. All I can say is that the Tier 3 tanks really suck against anything two or more tiers above them.
Artillery is hilarious. Laser-pinpoint accuracy on 75% of the map within 8 seconds on being sighted is just excessive - I'm all for something to flush entrenched defenders out or to hit something being held down by teammates, but this needs to be changed. I can literally hit dodging light tanks halfway across the map with artillery. Increase the splash but reduce accuracy or something.
I'm starting to like TDs because of their larger gun and the fact that I seem to run up against heavier tanks of a higher tier all the time.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

It's a shame that PzIV's are so rare. Historically there were many versions, but in this game you only get to chose between one, and for the few that don't pick one of those experimentals, they fit that fugly kingtiger-like turret on it which looks so cartoonishly huge. I want the sexy one with the armor skirts on it dammit

Yeah, the PzIV needs some love. Armor skirts would be awesome, and make up for its deficient side armor. And the shmallturm is stupid, I agree -- I refuse to use it. They need to sort out the PzIV a bit.

Playing in a BT-2 right now, saving points towards a BT-7, and eventually a T-34. Getting blasted by autocannon users is so annoying. I've come to fear the PzIII, as it generally hits harder and has heavier armor than me.

German tankers have it so easy in Tier one.

Oh, and having tank destroyers in a light tank fight is so one-sidedly unfair it's infuriating. I was having a good run, taking out three enemy BT-2's, an MS-1, and a PzIII when all of a sudden *BLAM* an AT-1 scatters my valiant little 45mm BT-2 across the countryside in a single blow to the side.

I assume you're referring to tiers one through four, because the PzIII is a tier four vehicle. Yes, the PzIII is a real beast when properly used and matched against similar opposition, but the tier three PzIII Ausf A has more than enough suck to make up for it.

And light tanks eat tank destroyers, so if you're getting trashed by TDs, you're doing it wrong.

[wautd]

Playing in a BT-2 right now, saving points towards a BT-7, and eventually a T-34. .

I also got a BT-7 since last night. While the BT-2 somethimes felt like a wtfpwn-mobile, my BT-7 gets trown into match against tanks that seem 3 leagues ahead. While you do get a better gun, it's still the same armor than the BT-2, while your opponents have both.

[Marcus Aurelius]

I signed up for the Beta upon seeing this thread and managed to get in. All I can say is that the Tier 3 tanks really suck against anything two or more tiers above them.
Artillery is hilarious. Laser-pinpoint accuracy on 75% of the map within 8 seconds on being sighted is just excessive - I'm all for something to flush entrenched defenders out or to hit something being held down by teammates, but this needs to be changed. I can literally hit dodging light tanks halfway across the map with artillery. Increase the splash but reduce accuracy or something.

What, you mean that in WW2 they couldn't do a fire mission on GPS coordinates within 10 seconds of calling it? What what what, they didn't even have GPS???

That is highly hilarious, especially considering that the Soviets and the Germans had one of the worst indirect artillery firing methods for targets of opportunity. Well, it's a game, so some artistic freedom for playability certainly should be allowed, but I think something like 1-2 minute wait for artillery fire missions would require more careful pre-planning. It would still be immensely better that any power could do in WW2.

[wautd]

I signed up for the Beta upon seeing this thread and managed to get in. All I can say is that the Tier 3 tanks really suck against anything two or more tiers above them.
Artillery is hilarious. Laser-pinpoint accuracy on 75% of the map within 8 seconds on being sighted is just excessive - I'm all for something to flush entrenched defenders out or to hit something being held down by teammates, but this needs to be changed. I can literally hit dodging light tanks halfway across the map with artillery. Increase the splash but reduce accuracy or something.

What, you mean that in WW2 they couldn't do a fire mission on GPS coordinates within 10 seconds of calling it? What what what, they didn't even have GPS???

That is highly hilarious, especially considering that the Soviets and the Germans had one of the worst indirect artillery firing methods for targets of opportunity. Well, it's a game, so some artistic freedom for playability certainly should be allowed, but I think something like 1-2 minute wait for artillery fire missions would require more careful pre-planning. It would still be immensely better that any power could do in WW2.

The pintpoint accuracy is one thing, I find it worse that artillery is doing so much damage against tanks.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The pintpoint accuracy is one thing, I find it worse that artillery is doing so much damage against tanks.

Tank running gear can be quite vulnerable to indirect artillery fire, especially to bigger than about 100 mm in caliber. Direct hits of anything larger than 105 mm would also quite likely kill any WW2 tank, unless the shell lands on the frontal armor. Light tanks of course would be much more vulnerable than medium or heavy tanks, but in general it's not a very good idea to sit out an intensive artillery barrage in any tank, because there is a reasonably high chance that your tank will take at least some damage. It may just be broken aerials, but even that can reduce the efficiency of a tank quite a lot in real life.

That said, considering that WW2 divisional artillery would be 105 mm for the Germans and mix of 76 mm and 122 mm for the Soviets, you really shouldn't receive heavy damage all the time, especially not with medium or heavy tanks.

[Ritterin Sophia]

Jesus Christ, looks like the entire German Tree to the Tiger is for people who loathe themselves.

Anything I can kill with my Pz.IV can outmaneuver me and wait for Arty to one shot me and anything I can't kill I'm slower than...

As an aside anybody having difficulty getting to play their light tanks? I spent fifteen minutes waiting to use my Leichttraktor before the fight my Pz.IV was in was over and I dropped out of queue to use it.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

PzIV isn't that bad. Just make sure you get those engine/track upgrades and the KwK40 L/48. And never show off your side armor. If you think the Tiger path is bad, try the Panther -- the VK3001H has less armor than the PzIV and is about as mobile as the loltraktor.

And I've been fine on my light tanks. I keep a PzII and a PzIII for lower-level stuff, and both get matches near-instantly.

[Ritterin Sophia]

PzIV isn't that bad. Just make sure you get those engine/track upgrades and the KwK40 L/48. And never show off your side armor. If you think the Tiger path is bad, try the Panther -- the VK3001H has less armor than the PzIV and is about as mobile as the loltraktor.

Unfortunately I can't afford the KwK40.

And I've been fine on my light tanks. I keep a PzII and a PzIII for lower-level stuff, and both get matches near-instantly.

Yeah, those are fine but for some reason I can't get the MS-1 and Loltraktor to into any matches, I'm looking at the queue and there's like 70-90 Tier 1 waiting at all times.