So, the next Fallout ?...
Moderator: Thanas
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
I wouldn't mind a Fallout game called "Fallout 4: The Vault". In a prologue, you start off as a youngster with his\her family getting a notice that they are to head to the designated Vault. You get a little leeway as to what you can do pre-war before having to hustle to the Vault. Maybe look around the neighborhood, or listen or watch the news reports of the upcoming war with China, etc...
Once in the vault, you, your family and other future vault-dwellers are put into stasis for the duration of the war and would be let out of their stasis unit then to take full control of the Vault until such time when heading back out becomes viable. But of course that is what everyone is told but as we know about Vault-Tec, each Vault is actually a (laughably) controlled experiment. Periodic equipment malfunction causes certain number of stasis units to react in various ways. Some thaw out its occupants, forcing them back to reality a lot sooner than expected (one of them being the game's antagonist the "Overseer" [predictable but in a Vault the options are quite limited.]), some are thawed out but stuck in the stasis units until they die, thawed out with explosive results or are burned alive or somehow their air is tainted by some form of the FEV virus, causing them to mutate and even some are dosed with various levels of radiation leading to ghoulism. Yadda yadda yaaa, you get the idea.
Since the Vault would be a true underground enclosed habitat, it would be huge and I don't mean the pathetic excuse of what is considered a Vault in the Fallout franchise. I mean a true underground city with its own mass transit system and whatever features a normal city would have.
Because of the various types of beings now reside inside the Vault, sections of the city are sectioned off by groups. Humans have control of about 40% of the Vault including just about every strategically valuable areas like the armories, clinics, overseers office and so forth. Non ghoul mutants have control of 30% of the Vault, ghouls 10% and the rest is a no man's land which separates humans from everyone else.
After the intro, it is two hundred years later and you see a small armed group of vault-dwellers searching through the lowest level of the NML's area of the Vault for anything of value that would help them "purify" the Vault but instead stumble upon some working stasis units. Confused as to why these units are located in the most remote part of the Vault, away from all the other stasis units, they decide to thaw out those inside only to find everyone (including your family) but yourself had been killed off in various ways but not before being experimented on. You come out of stasis but fall to the floor before taking your first step but one of the vault-dwellers help you up and sarcastically welcomes you to "Vault City". But before you can answer, growls, snarls, howling and inhuman laughter is heard echoing from the hallways and you are thrown over the shoulders by one of the team's burliest members and are hustled to safety. The last thing you remember before blacking out is the screams of your rescuers and the sounds of weapons' fire.
A short time later you wake up in one of the clinics and you are greeted by a nurse who then calls for your doctor. She appears and gives you the standard Fallout facial make-over and beginning stats. You are then given a quick rundown of what had occurred since the Vault was sealed until now but she then tells you that more details can be found in the city's library.
Flash forward a few years and you are now sitting in the guidance counselor's office where he\she tells you that you have great potential in whatever field you wish to study but you need to take the G.O.A.T. (insert whatever reason). You take the test and you are flash forwarded to the present time in which your character is in whatever field you chose (Doctor, soldier, politician, criminal, etc...). The first few missions are tailored to the profession before you are pushed to the forefront of a special mission that if successful would ensure a victory for humanity. Along the way you learn about what really happened in the vault and by the end of the campaign against the non-humans, you learn that the Overseer was behind it all. You also begin to wonder how the Overseer managed to stay alive throughout all this time and you get the answer from the dying breath of the leader of either the ghoul faction or the mutant faction. From there your real mission is to get out of the Vault alive, even if it meant being everyone's enemy. The only escape is through the Overseer's office, forcing you to confront him in a climactic battle. You live, everyone finds out what the Overseer really was and a mass exodus begins with you leading the way.
Of course as in every Fallout game, there would be multiple endings.
This is kind of slap dash but it can be fun.
Once in the vault, you, your family and other future vault-dwellers are put into stasis for the duration of the war and would be let out of their stasis unit then to take full control of the Vault until such time when heading back out becomes viable. But of course that is what everyone is told but as we know about Vault-Tec, each Vault is actually a (laughably) controlled experiment. Periodic equipment malfunction causes certain number of stasis units to react in various ways. Some thaw out its occupants, forcing them back to reality a lot sooner than expected (one of them being the game's antagonist the "Overseer" [predictable but in a Vault the options are quite limited.]), some are thawed out but stuck in the stasis units until they die, thawed out with explosive results or are burned alive or somehow their air is tainted by some form of the FEV virus, causing them to mutate and even some are dosed with various levels of radiation leading to ghoulism. Yadda yadda yaaa, you get the idea.
Since the Vault would be a true underground enclosed habitat, it would be huge and I don't mean the pathetic excuse of what is considered a Vault in the Fallout franchise. I mean a true underground city with its own mass transit system and whatever features a normal city would have.
Because of the various types of beings now reside inside the Vault, sections of the city are sectioned off by groups. Humans have control of about 40% of the Vault including just about every strategically valuable areas like the armories, clinics, overseers office and so forth. Non ghoul mutants have control of 30% of the Vault, ghouls 10% and the rest is a no man's land which separates humans from everyone else.
After the intro, it is two hundred years later and you see a small armed group of vault-dwellers searching through the lowest level of the NML's area of the Vault for anything of value that would help them "purify" the Vault but instead stumble upon some working stasis units. Confused as to why these units are located in the most remote part of the Vault, away from all the other stasis units, they decide to thaw out those inside only to find everyone (including your family) but yourself had been killed off in various ways but not before being experimented on. You come out of stasis but fall to the floor before taking your first step but one of the vault-dwellers help you up and sarcastically welcomes you to "Vault City". But before you can answer, growls, snarls, howling and inhuman laughter is heard echoing from the hallways and you are thrown over the shoulders by one of the team's burliest members and are hustled to safety. The last thing you remember before blacking out is the screams of your rescuers and the sounds of weapons' fire.
A short time later you wake up in one of the clinics and you are greeted by a nurse who then calls for your doctor. She appears and gives you the standard Fallout facial make-over and beginning stats. You are then given a quick rundown of what had occurred since the Vault was sealed until now but she then tells you that more details can be found in the city's library.
Flash forward a few years and you are now sitting in the guidance counselor's office where he\she tells you that you have great potential in whatever field you wish to study but you need to take the G.O.A.T. (insert whatever reason). You take the test and you are flash forwarded to the present time in which your character is in whatever field you chose (Doctor, soldier, politician, criminal, etc...). The first few missions are tailored to the profession before you are pushed to the forefront of a special mission that if successful would ensure a victory for humanity. Along the way you learn about what really happened in the vault and by the end of the campaign against the non-humans, you learn that the Overseer was behind it all. You also begin to wonder how the Overseer managed to stay alive throughout all this time and you get the answer from the dying breath of the leader of either the ghoul faction or the mutant faction. From there your real mission is to get out of the Vault alive, even if it meant being everyone's enemy. The only escape is through the Overseer's office, forcing you to confront him in a climactic battle. You live, everyone finds out what the Overseer really was and a mass exodus begins with you leading the way.
Of course as in every Fallout game, there would be multiple endings.
This is kind of slap dash but it can be fun.
ASVS('97)/SDN('03)
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
ASSCRAVATS!
"Whilst human alchemists refer to the combustion triangle, some of their orcish counterparts see it as more of a hexagon: heat, fuel, air, laughter, screaming, fun." Dawn of the Dragons
ASSCRAVATS!
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Now that I played some more New Vegas last night, I have the following observation to make:
It is fucking ridiculous to base weapon damages and hit ratio on skill stats if you intend to let the player aim in first person. If I shoot someone square in the head with a 5.56mm, I expect them to die or at least take massive damage. Yet in this game it is literally impossible to take out enemies with well-aimed headshots (like you can in STALKER). I mean, a 9mm pistol is a 9mm pistol and a 9mm bullet does the same amount of damage regardless of how experienced the shooter is. And all enemies seem able to run and shoot with perfect accuracy whereas I can't because if I move I get penalized with ridiculous conefire.
It is fucking ridiculous to base weapon damages and hit ratio on skill stats if you intend to let the player aim in first person. If I shoot someone square in the head with a 5.56mm, I expect them to die or at least take massive damage. Yet in this game it is literally impossible to take out enemies with well-aimed headshots (like you can in STALKER). I mean, a 9mm pistol is a 9mm pistol and a 9mm bullet does the same amount of damage regardless of how experienced the shooter is. And all enemies seem able to run and shoot with perfect accuracy whereas I can't because if I move I get penalized with ridiculous conefire.
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Welcome to the wonderful world of RPGs.
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
The funny thing is all these dice-based systems for determining hits and damage make perfect sense in a traditional pen&paper or partybased 3D turnbased RPG. It just makes no sense to retain them if you are basing the game around realtime, first person interaction.
Anyway I found a bunch of mods that makes it play a bit more like STALKER now so at least it is enjoyable, sans the hideously stupid AI. That's another thing, why not make a decently convincing AI? Every FPS from MOH onwards have enemies that act smarter than "CHARGE or FLEE". Fucking RPG developers.
Anyway I found a bunch of mods that makes it play a bit more like STALKER now so at least it is enjoyable, sans the hideously stupid AI. That's another thing, why not make a decently convincing AI? Every FPS from MOH onwards have enemies that act smarter than "CHARGE or FLEE". Fucking RPG developers.
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
That's just because Bethesda wanted to use the same game engine than Oblivion's without making real change to the gameplay apart from adding guns and the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system. Oh, and also because apparently Bethesda can't program a decent AI even if their lives depended on it.Julhelm wrote:The funny thing is all these dice-based systems for determining hits and damage make perfect sense in a traditional pen&paper or partybased 3D turnbased RPG. It just makes no sense to retain them if you are basing the game around realtime, first person interaction.
Anyway I found a bunch of mods that makes it play a bit more like STALKER now so at least it is enjoyable, sans the hideously stupid AI. That's another thing, why not make a decently convincing AI? Every FPS from MOH onwards have enemies that act smarter than "CHARGE or FLEE". Fucking RPG developers.
When you examine the basis of the series, I think it would have been more logical to adopt a third-person view (either "behind the shoulder" or a floating camera, or even both), and to watch how other modern RPGs ("Classical" and "Japanese" RPGs alike) managed combat at the party level and other gameplay elements. As I haven't really played any "modern" RPGs apart from Fo3, FO:NV, Mass Effect 1 and Final Fantasy XIII BORING, I don't feel qualified to go into more detail.
Someone got ideas ?
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Anyway, were the combat system is concerned, I'll state here what I liked in the previous Fallout title :
Fallout 1 & 2 : The turn-based system, associated with the hexagonal grid-based map I liked, because for slow-people like me it gave time to think. The problem with that system is two-fold :
- First, you only control yourself, and not the members of your party. This cause them to often do annoying things like attacking at hand to hand someone/thing you're planning to shoot at with a minigun/a rocket/launcher/other "imprecise" weapons (Marcus, Goris, I'm looking at YOU).
- The "structure" of the turn-per-turn system (If my memory is right, your party and the hostiles never act at the same time), and the arcane dice-rolls performed to determine the "sequence" of the turn in practice made it hard to plan your strategy more than than two turns in advances.
These two things would be unacceptable in a modern game, as gamers don't like not being "in control" (especially in case like the first one where your party act like morons and you can't do anything about it).
Fallout Tactics : This one was a tactical squad-based game with RPG elements - not quite the same thing as the first two. However, I personally like the possibility to manage the six-member of your squad, and the other squad-managing options that were involved.
The game could be played in real-time, in squad-based turn-per-turn, or in random turn-per-turn. In practice, I only played it in real-time, has the turn-per-turn, at the scale of a squad felt too heavy, and the IA of the teammates was good enough in most of the cases in RT.
The only axe I have to grind with this game is the "tactical" aspect : it was quasi non-existent.
Practically, the only "winning" strategy I managed to devise was : get the best armor and weapons to your squad members, and get into the thick of it all guns blazing. And you know what ? It was easy. At hard difficulty.
Why would I bother myself with "tactical placement" and "sequence of actions" when I can just point my weapons toward the enemy and have it annihilated practically instantaneously? By the end of the game, I had 6 squad members with laser rifles [best DPS/ammo consumption ratio in the game] and power armors, a shitload of stimpacks and an hyper-competent Medic, and even against the biggest badass-est enemies I felt almost invincible (the "final fight" took in general less than 15 seconds).
So, clearly, there was a balance problem.
So, here are the change I would recommend for a future Fallout combat system :
- Total control of each party member, with the possibility to program your companions with customized "rules of engagement" for when you don't control them directly in a combat (when to shoot at who with what, when to use what drugs on who, when to use what competence on who/what, etc...).
- Combat in real time with the possibility of a "pause" to adjust orders (who shoot at who/what, how and how many time ; distance to keep between the party members and the enemies). Ideally, everything should be decided by the prior programming of companions attitude ("Drills"), the orders given in combat only being "X attack Y", "Z give stimpack to X", "Change weapon to : rocket launcher" and the like.
- Given the two preceding points, combats should be fast-paced, decisions having to be taken in split-seconds, with an adapted order interface [It should be DUMBED DOWN FOR CONSOLES]. In Hardcore Mode, the "pause mode" (equivalent to today's VATS) would be deactivated. [question : would it be hard to develop a voice interface based on keywords ?]
The advantage of this system is that it would allow for a Multiplayer/Co-op mode inserted in the story, without "shitting" on the single-player mode.
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Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Yep it's beyond retarded. This is why you buy them on the PC and then mod them to work like a proper shooter.Julhelm wrote:Now that I played some more New Vegas last night, I have the following observation to make:
It is fucking ridiculous to base weapon damages and hit ratio on skill stats if you intend to let the player aim in first person. If I shoot someone square in the head with a 5.56mm, I expect them to die or at least take massive damage. Yet in this game it is literally impossible to take out enemies with well-aimed headshots (like you can in STALKER). I mean, a 9mm pistol is a 9mm pistol and a 9mm bullet does the same amount of damage regardless of how experienced the shooter is. And all enemies seem able to run and shoot with perfect accuracy whereas I can't because if I move I get penalized with ridiculous conefire.
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Julhelm wrote:Now that I played some more New Vegas last night, I have the following observation to make:
It is fucking ridiculous to base weapon damages and hit ratio on skill stats if you intend to let the player aim in first person. If I shoot someone square in the head with a 5.56mm, I expect them to die or at least take massive damage. Yet in this game it is literally impossible to take out enemies with well-aimed headshots (like you can in STALKER). I mean, a 9mm pistol is a 9mm pistol and a 9mm bullet does the same amount of damage regardless of how experienced the shooter is. And all enemies seem able to run and shoot with perfect accuracy whereas I can't because if I move I get penalized with ridiculous conefire.
RPG fatnerd companies can't make an FPS to save their lives so use VATS to win?
It's notable that they took away the biggest penalty to using VATS in New Vegas (that it caused your weapons to degrade 4x faster). It's still not as terribad as the mans shooting in the original Mass Effect, where enemies could run left and right* literally faster than you could turn on the spot if they were too close, and there was no stick sensitivity setting.
*And their combat AI consisted solely of running left and right shooting, unless they were set to run at you and punch you to instant death.
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Endwar uses one, and it doesn't completely suck balls. But using it for more than a few minutes does point out that it's a quirky novelty and not a real control system. The real advantage of it is that you can give orders to things you aren't looking at, which is far less useful for a limited battle scope where everything can reasonably be on screen at once.Rabid wrote:[question : would it be hard to develop a voice interface based on keywords ?]
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Got any mods in mind?aieeegrunt wrote:Yep it's beyond retarded. This is why you buy them on the PC and then mod them to work like a proper shooter.Julhelm wrote:Now that I played some more New Vegas last night, I have the following observation to make:
It is fucking ridiculous to base weapon damages and hit ratio on skill stats if you intend to let the player aim in first person. If I shoot someone square in the head with a 5.56mm, I expect them to die or at least take massive damage. Yet in this game it is literally impossible to take out enemies with well-aimed headshots (like you can in STALKER). I mean, a 9mm pistol is a 9mm pistol and a 9mm bullet does the same amount of damage regardless of how experienced the shooter is. And all enemies seem able to run and shoot with perfect accuracy whereas I can't because if I move I get penalized with ridiculous conefire.
Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
Hell yeah!
I find these make the most impact on making the realtime combat tolerable:
Fallout New FPS
Realistic Headshots
No RPG Autoaim
Do note that the damage tweaks and headshot mods also affect you to an extent.
I find these make the most impact on making the realtime combat tolerable:
Fallout New FPS
Realistic Headshots
No RPG Autoaim
Do note that the damage tweaks and headshot mods also affect you to an extent.
- Panzersharkcat
- Jedi Council Member
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Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
I'm working on a increased weapon damage one for Fallout 3. At level 13, with Dragonskin armor and toughness granting me a DR in the high 40s to low 50s, I nearly got torn to pieces by a pair of idiot raiders with 10mm submachine guns. I was only saved because they had to reload. Miniguns are pretty much an "ah, crap" weapon if you see somebody with one, what with me changing them to use .308 ammo and giving them near sniper rifle levels of damage per bullet.
"I'm just reading through your formspring here, and your responses to many questions seem to indicate that you are ready and willing to sacrifice realism/believability for the sake of (sometimes) marginal increases in gameplay quality. Why is this?"
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
"Because until I see gamers sincerely demanding that if they get winged in the gut with a bullet that they spend the next three hours bleeding out on the ground before permanently dying, they probably are too." - J.E. Sawyer
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Re: So, the next Fallout ?...
I busted out the geck, reduced the spread of weapons and then doubled the global damage modifier, then when the game starts I pull up the console and put small guns to 100. You get a much cleaner result by using the "new FPS" and "No autoaim" mods. Hilarious that the "realistic headshot" mod has been taken offline because the modmaker's dad found porn on his computer and took it away.Stofsk wrote:Got any mods in mind?aieeegrunt wrote:Yep it's beyond retarded. This is why you buy them on the PC and then mod them to work like a proper shooter.Julhelm wrote:Now that I played some more New Vegas last night, I have the following observation to make:
It is fucking ridiculous to base weapon damages and hit ratio on skill stats if you intend to let the player aim in first person. If I shoot someone square in the head with a 5.56mm, I expect them to die or at least take massive damage. Yet in this game it is literally impossible to take out enemies with well-aimed headshots (like you can in STALKER). I mean, a 9mm pistol is a 9mm pistol and a 9mm bullet does the same amount of damage regardless of how experienced the shooter is. And all enemies seem able to run and shoot with perfect accuracy whereas I can't because if I move I get penalized with ridiculous conefire.