Thinking about buying a console

[Losonti Tokash]

Do you really not get the difference between "this has been noted as a common issue for the ps3 version" and "This happens to every person that plays it on ps3"?

[Zinegata]

Do you really not get the difference between "this has been noted as a common issue for the ps3 version" and "This happens to every person that plays it on ps3"?

Again: I'm not denying it's an issue. This is Stark failing to read. What I actually said:

Also, Stark is way overstating the crashing issue. I'm currenty playing Dragon's Dogma on the PS3 (20+ hours in) and haven't experienced a single crash despite me playing the most frame-rate intensive class. In fact I haven't experienced a single crash with any of my PS3 games.

Did I say I didn't experience it? Yes. Did I say nobody experienced it? No. But Stark pretends "Yes" on both counts every time he "argues".

Again: I'm saying that based on Stark's examples, he's way overexaggerating the issue, and that it's probably not a programming issue but a hardware one. With a newer PS3 it shouldn't be a big problem, if at all.

[Stark]

Is that conclusion based on anything other than you extrapolating your individual experience?

PS, your jokes about me failing to read are going to get real funny when the penny drops.

[Zinegata]

So, you admit that you didn't failed to read; you were deliberately lying about my position. Glad we got that clear .

Is that conclusion based on anything other than you extrapolating your individual experience?

It's a pretty logical extrapolation. Two PCs have the same OS but different hardware. Game runs well on PC A, but not on PC B. Clearly, there's something wrong with PC B's hardware.

[Stark]

Can you quote me saying that? Or this this one of those one rule for you, another rule for me?

Anyway the joke is you've flown off the handle in a hilarious fashion over a qualified statement. If you were not insane you could have shared your experience in the way other PS3 owners have; instead, you saw a bizarre conspiracy and put on your console war trousers.

All because you don't know what it means when a statement starts with 'I've heard'. It's just capped by your childish insistence that anything that hasn't happened to you must be solved, ironclad logic I'm sure convinces Thanas.

[Zinegata]

In short, the person who started name-calling (PS3 slaves, against someone who disproved your stupid notion that PS3 only gets Gundam games as exclusives) gets whiny when he gets called out for providing bad information (Dragon's Dogma crashes a lot! So much that Zine didn't experience even a single crash in 20+ hours of play!), keeps on trolling by lying about my position, and then feigns innocence.

And then you just heap the usual accusations of "flying off the handle" because you know that's the language the mods used to do your own backseat moderating.

Whatever. Stop playing games. I never said there was a conspiracy. I'm just saying you've given wrong information, and then kept launching personal attacks on the people who proved you wrong; which I attribute to your fanboy 360 vs PS3 perspective.

[Stark]

I think you'll find I'm not whining at all, at least not in the world outside your own imagination. I'm just pointing out that you've made a fool of yourself in public.

To further illustrate the point, I similarly said 'apparently PS3 doesn't have group chat'. This is because I don't know for certain either way; I've qualified a point. Nobody flew off the handle with a series of bizarre rationale based on a their own life - Vendetta simply explained the situaton and the whys and wherefores.

Vendetta doesn't look like a raving lunatic. And I'm not even close to backseat moderating; I'm not calling for any action or even telling you to stop. I'm just describing your conduct - and you characterising me repeating my own statement, which you have triumphantly quoted, as 'whining' is probably the best part.

[Zinegata]

I think you'll find I'm not whining at all

One Two points out that there are more PS3 exclusives than just Gundam games. You whine and pretend he wasted your time because he's a PS3 slave.

I point out that you're way exaggerating the Dragon's Dogma crash issue. You then spend the next several posts whining about how I am apparently raging on you, when in reality it's just you failing three times to defend your argument.

Really, an honest person who'd try to defend their claim (Dragon's Dogma crashes a lot!) would at least try to get anecdotes on how often it crashes compared to my experience (none in 20+ hours). But instead we get this nonsense about how you are so superior and you like laughing at me.

Whatever.

I'm just describing your conduct - and you characterising me repeating my own statement, which you have triumphantly quoted, as 'whining' is probably the best part.

And your conduct is, as One Two succintly put it: "I like to make other people's arguments for them in order to make them sound stupid". Really, keep doing it. You'll succeed at life that way. [/sarcasm]

You then go "Just wait till Thanas gets here!". Really Stark, stop pretending you're not playing backseat modding already.

[Stark]

Are you serious? One Two cherry picked a single item from a list I provided and said he 'didn't know where I got it from', suggesting he didnt even know all the Gundam exclusives exist. Not really my problem, is it? :v

And man I am actually stunned you're still repeating yourself. That was the joke I just carefully explained - I didn't 'claim' anything. I said 'I've heard'. The absolute worst your terrifying replies could get is 'you heard wrong', but that'd take a bit more than a theory based on nothing but your self-obsession and a poor understanding of probability.

Call me nuts but the guy using te phrase 'backseat modding' like a get out of jail free card is probably not the right person to accuse others of 'whining'.

[Zinegata]

It's time to stop feeding the troll.

Are you serious? One Two cherry picked a single item from a list I provided...

Yes, but his point is that there are more exclusives than the list you provided. And then you made fun of him because it doesn't meet your oh-so-awesome standards for good gaming and he's a mere PS3 slave:

A list of games including exactly one good game and one (different) game Thanas is likely to care about isn't really very compelling. It's actually kind of sad to see PS3 slaves tout Demon Souls as an exclusive, when the sequel is available on everything. It'd be like 360 enthusiasts harping on Mass Effect 1.

In short "Only I decide what are good games. You are a mere PS3 slave".

So really, stop pretending you weren't being an ass and didn't deserve the "playing console war fanboy" label for that particular post, which you've then exaggerated as me claiming there's some kind of conspiracy. Talk smack, get smack back.

I didn't 'claim' anything. I said 'I've heard'.

Then why are you claiming that my first-hand experiences amount to nothing? That I am giving mere "anecdotes" which don't count? See here:

Do you honestly think a single anecdote counters all the PS3 owners in this thread talking about the flaws?

The fact is simple: You tried to defend the claim as being true, saying "all the PS3 owners" refute what I said (even though none of them mentioned the crash issue, save Flagg for Skyrim specifically).

You are now backpedalling again and claim it was never "your" argument in the first place. You just "heard" it from other people. Way to do a 180.

So really, this is again you playing games because you didn't want to admit that you did, in fact, exaggerate the crash issue. And rather than admit I have a point, you make up all kinds of different stories about me "flying off the handle", me having conspiracy theories, etc.

Claim whatever you want. Claim that you speak for Thanas, or whatever (that's backseat moderating, and you're an idiot if you think it's a free pass for pointing it out).

But this is ultimately just you whining because you don't want to admit you were wrong.

[Stark]

Wow, when I jokingly listed three games (the hint was 'sack boy adventures'), it wasn't a complete list? Holy shit, call the police!

I am particularly enjoying that it's ok for you to invent what I'm saying (even when what you quote plainly states what I was saying) but its a terrible crime for me to even appear to do this. The strangest part is where you are now saying I did a 180, for simply repeating what I said - and which you blindly quoted without comprehending! You smugly quoted the phrase and chuckled along like a turd, all the while acting like it was a 'claim' or 'argument' that I am now 'backpedalling' from. I'm not sure how much clearer I can be in this, because I have literally stepped you through it complete with examples. I'm just glad you've moved on from your bizarre idea that you not seeing an issue means that it is lies/not relevant/fixed/whatever.

Can you quote where I claim to speak for Thanas? I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to play God of War or Motorstorm. Don't tell me - that's BACKSEAT MODERATING! Probably just like how not claiming something you think I claimed. :v

So relax, let the white knuckle death grip go, and actually tell Thanas something that might help his decision.

[Zinegata]

The strangest part is where you are now saying I did a 180, for simply repeating what I said - and which you blindly quoted without comprehending!

Stark, the nice thing about these forums is that you can't go back and delete stuff. Here's your first actual reply

It's a lie because it hasnt happened to you? By that rationale, the well-know hardware problems with early 360s are 'lies' too because hey - never happened to me. Do you honestly think a single anecdote counters all the PS3 owners in this thread talking about the flaws?

I'm actually really pleased with the payoff on the term PS3 slaves. Of course, the similar insult towards 360 users has bought no response at all.

Then your second post:

I'm not sure Zinegata knows how statistics work. My grandpa smoked a pack a day for fifty years, too! Died in his sleep of too many Tim Tams!

Amusingly, checking up suggests I may have been too lenient on PS3; most reviews say that PS3 suffers from lower framerate due to some vsync silliness on DD. Zinegata wouldn't know, but that doesn't make it a lie. Its all beside the point along with everything else, but its still worth talking about.

PROTIP: Zinegata, are you aware that Zod's obviously absurd statement was intended to highlight your own stupid statement?

Any mention at all of "blindly quoted without comprehending"? Nope. You really tried to defend your argument by invoking RROD (unreleated) and Frame Rate (unrelated).

Again, a complete 180 on your part.

actually tell Thanas something that might help his decision.

I already did. The PS3 - new models at least - does not have crash issues as bad as you made them out to be. Even with a notorious game like Dragon's Dogma you can get 20+ hours without a crash. If you're no longer contesting it, then we're done.

[Stark]

You know how I said it would be funny when the penny dropped? That's cause I didn't explain your error because it was fun watch you rage in the completely wrong direction. My honestly stunned inability to grasp your bizarre pet 'theory' about PS3 crashes (which I can't find reference to elsewhere) doesn't change that you quoted my sentence starting with 'I've heard'.

But putting all that aside, do you own the ME games? Poking around about PS3 crashing, they are apparently particularly bad.

[Vendetta]

I already did. The PS3 - new models at least - does not have crash issues as bad as you made them out to be. Even with a notorious game like Dragon's Dogma you can get 20+ hours without a crash. If you're no longer contesting it, then we're done.

Crashes are down to the software. Doesn't matter what model PS3 you have. I have quite a new one and it crashed shitloads in DC Universe Online (total hard lock, even the power button stops working properly, system will do a checkdisk on startup).

The darkest days appear to have mostly passed by, but time was that most multiplatform games would be either at a lower resolution, missing some effects, or run at a lower or less consistent framerate on the PS3 version.

[Zinegata]

That's cause I didn't explain your error because it was fun watch you rage in the completely wrong direction.

In short... you are now claiming that you deliberately lied to me during the first two posts. That you did it in order to mislead me, so that you can make fun of me for "going the wrong direction".

Rather than say, correcting me right away on the first post.

This is the most convoluted excuse I've ever seen in this forum.

[Zinegata]

Crashes are down to the software. Doesn't matter what model PS3 you have. I have quite a new one and it crashed shitloads in DC Universe Online (total hard lock, even the power button stops working properly, system will do a checkdisk on startup).

I think that case may be more due to the specific games though (I don't have DC Online), or it may be because of the online play. A good chunk of the games I played are PS3 exclusives (MGS4, Valkyria, Demon Souls), but then again the others which weren't were fine too (Red Dead, Dragon's Dogma).

That's a pretty horrid crash though. Which update do you have?

[Vendetta]

That's a pretty horrid crash though. Which update do you have?

Whichever was current at the time, since, y'know, DC Universe Online and all (You need to have the latest firmware to be connected to PSN or Xbox Live).

It's chronic to the title though, happens to everyone, as is the worst unreal engine pop-in you've ever experienced (low memory again, I suspect, combined with the fact that it's an open world MMO).

[Stark]

As amazing as it is that someone you are flaming won't go out of their way to help you, this is instructive:

Except nobody's saying that all of them have crashing issues.

Wrong. Stark said:

What I hear is that unless the game was developed for PS3 first, the PS3 versions have either lower frame rates or more crashes or both. Dragons Dogma, to take an example, runs about the same on both but crashes more on PS3

Frame rate, yes. Crashes, no.

I would have no issue if Stark mentioned frame rate specifically, which was an issue with DD. Because that's a known fact. But he didn't.

You quoted what I said, but apparently either missed the meaning or chose to believe I said something else so you could flame me for literally hours. Next time, you can actually talk to people (like basically everyone else in this thread) instead of stomping around like a big man DEBUNKING the CLAIMS that you're happy to quote without, apparently, reading. You even now say it 'may be more due to the specific games though'!

Amusingly, Vendetta has said essentially the same thing as I did (he's even harsher, to be honest, and its PS3 owners like him my qualified statement was directed at) and you don't mind. My my - I wonder why.

Vendetta, have you or your buddies played ME2 and 3 on PS3? I know I mentioned this before and Gatta snipped it out, but I've seen more complaints about crashing/locking in ME2 than any other game on PS3. Its an interesting one, because I'm not sure it should suffer from PS3's memory as much as some other games and they clearly had the budget and inclination to spend time on the port.

[Thanas]

Also, Stark is way overstating the crashing issue. I'm currenty playing Dragon's Dogma on the PS3 (20+ hours in) and haven't experienced a single crash despite me playing the most frame-rate intensive class. In fact I haven't experienced a single crash with any of my PS3 games.

Serious question. If I buy a PS3 and experience any crashes, are you willing to refund my purchases? if not, then why do your individual experiences matter more than that of countless websites and user reports, some in this very thread?

[Jub]

Honestly Thanas, even though I've had both consoles and ended up deciding to stick with my PS3, I would recommend the 360 for the reasons listed above. NHL13 often freezes when trying to load save files, some games have horrid install times (though others zip by like nothing), and the store isn't what it needs to be. Unless you want to use it as a media center (last I checked it was compatable with more video/audio codex than a 360) or like the exclusives enough for that to sway you, then save yourself some headaches and go with the 360.

I'd also advise that you go to a store that has demo machines setup and get a controller from each console in your hand to try it, or better yet, find people in your social network that have consoles and try them out. See what works for you and what feels comfortable in your hands.

[Block]

Honestly Thanas, even though I've had both consoles and ended up deciding to stick with my PS3, I would recommend the 360 for the reasons listed above. NHL13 often freezes when trying to load save files, some games have horrid install times (though others zip by like nothing), and the store isn't what it needs to be. Unless you want to use it as a media center (last I checked it was compatable with more video/audio codex than a 360) or like the exclusives enough for that to sway you, then save yourself some headaches and go with the 360.

Those freezes happen on both systems for almost all EA sports games since 2011 unfortunately. They tend to go away if you install the game on the harddrive, but EA has just been shit at programming recently.

[Jub]

Honestly Thanas, even though I've had both consoles and ended up deciding to stick with my PS3, I would recommend the 360 for the reasons listed above. NHL13 often freezes when trying to load save files, some games have horrid install times (though others zip by like nothing), and the store isn't what it needs to be. Unless you want to use it as a media center (last I checked it was compatable with more video/audio codex than a 360) or like the exclusives enough for that to sway you, then save yourself some headaches and go with the 360.

Those freezes happen on both systems for almost all EA sports games since 2011 unfortunately. They tend to go away if you install the game on the harddrive, but EA has just been shit at programming recently.

I wouldn't know fo other consoles. I do know 2011 seemed to be fine, but 2012 seems to hate me somedays and work fine others. Most other games don't seem to have nearly that many stability issues (most games don't have any) and outside of that franchise, and maybe GTA:IV (before the updates) I havent had any issues myself. It stilll seemed worth reporting though as an additional thing for Thanas to consider.

For a counter point I've found that 360's, at least the older style ones, tend to overheat more often and faster than the PS3's I've owned. They're also a little more delicate, I've moved a PS3 while in use and my game was fine, even on the new 360's if you move them while in use you have a decent chance of trashing your disk. I never installed the metro update so I can't comment on that.

To the rest of the people in this thread remember that this is a thread so we can help someody else buy a console. Leave your prejudice at the door and stick to describing your experiences and what you find to be selling points. Just because your a fan of one system or the other doesn't mean Thanas will be and just because you dislike something doesn't mean he will too.

[Stark]

The new dash is better in a lot of ways but has some issues of its own, most of which they're stripping out in the next update. The time for the console to become usable has definitely increased as more updates have applied (and probably because I have a kinect attached).

[Jub]

The new dash is better in a lot of ways but has some issues of its own, most of which they're stripping out in the next update. The time for the console to become usable has definitely increased as more updates have applied (and probably because I have a kinect attached).

Good to know, I don't think I'll buy another Xbox before the next console cycle, but it's something I'll keep in mind in case somneplace has them on sale for retardedly cheap.

[Stark]

They tried to add apps (because they're cool) but even the simplest app (like the zone player or Facebook) takes far too long to start. The zune issue is so bad they've apparently removed it from the next version so you don't have to manually delete it to use the built-in and faster media player. Stuff like this really highlights the age of the basic hardware.