Microsoft is forcing users to upgrade to Windows 10

[Broomstick]

I was addressing my comments at "the kind of user that can't wrap his technical skills around changing a setting in the windows control panel", as Purple put it. That category of individual can reasonably be assumed not to use their personally-owned computer for anything they make a living from.

Except... some do. I have found people running small, start-up businesses often do not have adequate computer skills – because their skills are somewhere else, which is what they're trying to sell to make a living.

In your particular case, Broomstick, I really don't know what to tell you. If you're lucky you'll find that the model of hardware you own is popular enough that someone's gone to the trouble to reverse-engineer the software and create an open source clone, but otherwise I suggest tracking down a cheap XP box on Craigslist and keeping it permanently isolated from the Internet to control the lathe with.

Oh, not a problem for us – I think we even still have a TRS80 around here somewhere, we tend not to get rid of tech unless it has completely and permanently stopped working (although I have considered selling my HP Jornada, which is in excellent condition. Apparently it is worth a few bucks). We run the lathe on a Win98 machine.

But I'm married to someone who used to design and burn his own circuit boards in the bathroom sink – that's not a common skill-set.

You may also be able to use Wine to continue to use your current art and design software -anything older than about 2008 is more likely than not to run without any special effort on your part- but I'd start exploring Linux-compatible alternatives as well just in case.

Meh.

What I'd really like is something that could read my old WordPerfect files on its own. As it is, any time I need to get into one I have to strip out the formatting the hard way. It's doable, but it's an example of how an unexpected upgrade without back-compatibility can screw you up. If I had known that change was coming I would have taken the time to translate all those files to something that would seamlessly convert but I didn't, so now it's a hassle (I have and use data files that are 30 years old. I realize I'm an outlier, both in using stuff that old and actually having had a personal computer before that was a common thing)

What MS is doing with those kinds of poison pill terms is utterly unethical, because they are seeking an avenue of leeching off of the work of others, but in the US at least it is (so far) legal. There is a reason why I have made a point of not using any Microsoft software if there is a good alternative to it. I have Windows at home, and mainly due to gaming. I'll be just as comfortable doing writing on Linux as well as a number of other things.

The ethical/legal issues are a big problem, particularly for those in the US who are more subject to whatever happy horseshit MS is trying to force on people this week. It is not a nice corporation and has a long history of doing shady, unethical things.

Of course, a lot of this is not concern to people who just want to e-mail friends and family, hang out on Facebook, and tweet. Heck, I'm configuring my dad's old tablet to specifically play games and websurf, and basically do all that sort of garbage/entertainment stuff on the internet. We have a different computer we use to run the business, used only for that, that is very, very seldom connected to the internet. Of course, we've been using computers a LONG time in my household (me since 1976, my spouse from even earlier) and have learned some lessons the hard way.

Since Microsoft is giving their new operating system away for free, where the fuck does the greed argument come from? He doesn't have to pay anything for it. He also has the right to complain as much as he wants, but he is not entitled to actually get those complaints addressed unless he does so himself.

MS is giving it away for free NOW – that will not always be the case. There is also a persistent rumor (which I have not been able to either confirm or firmly deny) that after a certain time period MS will not sell you an OS, they will lease it to you – meaning you will be renting your OS.

Why is that a problem? Well, when I went through a period of no income a few years ago I could still use my computer – I owned the hardware and the software without having to pay. If I had been forced to rent my OS then I would have lost all access if I was unable to pay. I would not be able to access or use my stuff. Some people would rather own than rent, and that crowd is viewing this “free” upgrade with great suspicion and are concerned it's an attempt to force people to pay MS forever to access their own stuff, even if everything they do otherwise is on non-MS software.

Yes, there are alternatives to MS operating systems – but they're less common. MS is hugely dominant, especially in the US market.

It still doesn't invalidate the points made earlier, nor does the failure of various instances to plan enough ahead to avoid running on 20 year old systems because nobody bothered to do anything about them when it was still feasible.

Some people like antiques :LOL:

No, seriously – I have a spinning wheel that's around 175 years old and I've made the effort to keep it operating, which included having to make some replacement parts. My sewing machine is a 1910 Singer, so it's officially antique now. Hell, I've flown “antique” airplanes.

But there's a time and a place for everything. Yes, for some things you need to stay at least somewhat current – but when I replace my cell phone or TV or, yes, computer I want it to be on MY schedule and MY convenience, not the whims of someone else. I want technology to work for me, not me working for it or it being an impediment.

I shouldn't have to play whack-a-mole with a corporation in order to keep MY computer working on MY terms. Having to educate myself, be computer literate, take responsibility for backups and work-arounds, yes, that's on me – having to continually mash the “thank, no thanks, don't want that” button is not something I should have to do in order to use my own property.

[Broomstick]

I can't really argue with that, and Microsoft's own choices have made the problem a lot worse than it had to be. But in all fairness to them, up until quite recently long-term liability for computer equipment was mostly an issue for large businesses with embedded systems; the median lifespan of a typical home PC between 1995 and 2001 was something like five years, because the technology was getting better so fast that it was still worthwhile to start over from scratch.

But not so much anymore - and I think that's a concern for the software business.

Really, the wordprocessor and spreadsheet systems that were being used in the late 1990's are still entirely adequate for MOST purposes today - the extra bells and whistles added since are basically bloatware from the viewpoint of the typical user. Most people never utilize most of the options on wordprocessers, for example. So how can a company like MS keep selling their software when people no longer feel a need to upgrade because the older stuff works just fine for them?

Well, if you HAVE TO upgrade, it's no longer an option, that keeps you coming back to MS if you want to keep using your stuff. MS and Apple really don't want you to own anything - they want you to rent your OS, rent your storage space (the "cloud"), and upgrade whether or not you want to do so. We see this in other places, too - the push to stream media instead of owning DVD's or CD's is another example. This was seen decades ago in the auto industry, with the concept of "planned obsolescence" where vehicles were designed to stop working after a particular point to force you to purchase a new vehicle, because car companies hate customers like me who hang onto their vehicles "too long" (I have a 17 year old truck and a 14 year old car - since both work fine I see no reason to replace either at this point in time).

Some of this is clearly about a company trying to keep its income up. Rather than develop actual new stuff they would like you to keep paying for the old stuff, or convince you to purchase stuff you don't actually need that won't actually help you work better.

See, when I'm upgrading a gaming computer I am actually getting something useful - better graphics, less lag, ability to run more sophisticated programs or 3D capability or whatever. When I "upgrade" to the latest version of MS Word I'll be doing the exact same things I also did and probably never, ever touch the new bells and whistles... so why am I doing this, again? (Actually, I haven't used MS Word at home for, oh, probably close to a decade and a half now).

Another place you see this is the push for "Microsoft certification" and classes for same, for things like Word. Seriously? Once you've learned how to use a wordprocesser you don't need that, you just need to know where the help function is, at most, because a LOT of stuff has been completely standardized and doesn't change (I once made some of my living from mastering a half dozen wordprocessors, most of which did NOT use CTRL-P to print and had some other whacky ways to format stuff, but most of that has been eliminated now). Yet I remember in my office cubicle days that every time there was an upgrade there was this push to send everyone to classes to learn how to use programs that, honestly, hadn't changed all that much. It's a cash cow for those promoting and running the classes, that's all. Training completely new users wasn't enough, the industry was trying to sell re-re-re-training to up profits.

Operating system growth went through an explosive growth at one point, but those days are over. I view part of this as MS trying to keep the sales figures up, even though their niche has matured and achieved market saturation.

[Zaune]

Except... some do. I have found people running small, start-up businesses often do not have adequate computer skills – because their skills are somewhere else, which is what they're trying to sell to make a living.

Well, that's unfortunate for those people but my sympathy for them is somewhat limited. If you depend on your car to earn a living, it's generally expected that you should be capable of replacing a wheel if you get a blow-out and know how to tell when the oil needs changing... and to be able to recognise when the time's come to bite the bullet and replace the vehicle entirely because it's becoming uneconomical to maintain. Should we expect less of people who depend on their computers?

Meh.

What I'd really like is something that could read my old WordPerfect files on its own. As it is, any time I need to get into one I have to strip out the formatting the hard way. It's doable, but it's an example of how an unexpected upgrade without back-compatibility can screw you up. If I had known that change was coming I would have taken the time to translate all those files to something that would seamlessly convert but I didn't, so now it's a hassle (I have and use data files that are 30 years old. I realize I'm an outlier, both in using stuff that old and actually having had a personal computer before that was a common thing)

If we're talking WordStar 5.1 for DOS, the easiest solution might be to download the free trial version of the current WordPerfect edition and see if it'll let you save them in modern .wpd format, which OpenOffice claims to be able to open.

But not so much anymore - and I think that's a concern for the software business.

Really, the wordprocessor and spreadsheet systems that were being used in the late 1990's are still entirely adequate for MOST purposes today - the extra bells and whistles added since are basically bloatware from the viewpoint of the typical user. Most people never utilize most of the options on wordprocessers, for example. So how can a company like MS keep selling their software when people no longer feel a need to upgrade because the older stuff works just fine for them?

Well, if you HAVE TO upgrade, it's no longer an option, that keeps you coming back to MS if you want to keep using your stuff...

Yep. This is one of many reasons why I keep trying to persuade people to switch over to Linux. I'm not going to claim it's a perfect solution, but at least the underlying design philosophy was thought up by people who recognised that vendor lock-in and lack of backwards compatibility are bad things.

[Korto]

MS Office Excel and Access are compatible with VB 6. Word (as opposed to WordPad) also has a spelling and grammar checker, and the ability to create and edit tables.

I see hyperbole fails you. Magnificent.

I'm familiar with hyperbole. I'm also familiar with hyperbole used to strawman and then ridicule another person's position.

Strawman? Yeah, not a strawman, just a bad example as Edi said, and I'm happy to concede to that. However the hyperbole was lumping you in with the whiners who complained about the big bad organization (in that case the US Government) forcing them (or to use your wordage: "push") to stop using ancient technology by taking it off the market. So I'll admit the hyperbole was inaccurate, but it was far from a strawman.

Help me out here, Flagg. I'm looking at my first post, and trying to find where I:
(1) Said that MicroSoft should continue to support sixteen year old software
(2) Complained that they weren't.

So do I.

The main thing that concerns me is will I be able to run my Office 2000 and Visual Basic 6 ? I don't want to buy modern software, the stuff I have does me fine.

Sometimes I kind of feel upgrading from XP to 7 was a mistake--I lost convenience. I have programs on a thumbdrive, and with XP I could just stick those in the Start Menu, easy, and the computer would run them. Can't do that with 7 (there is a work-around, but it's ugly). And the Recent Documents folder is gone--yes, every application now has its own, but that means I've got to go searching for wherever the hell the pdf viewer or whatever is through the menus.

And I hate feeling pushed.

You said you were concerned that you wouldn't be able to use your ancient software. Logically this leads any rational person to believe that you think MS should continue to support your ancient software. Not to mention your thinking that upgrading from an equally ancient OS was a mistake. And that you hate feeling "pushed" is just icing on the lol-cake since its been repeated ad nauseum that you don't have to upgrade, you can avoid it completely. But then you would have to do something, and you seem to not want to do anything. But by all means, continue backpedaling.

Logically this leads any rational, thoughtful person to believe that I was concerned I may not be able to continue to use my ancient software, but to realise anything beyond that is pure speculation.

I have no idea what this thing about the US Government is, but I'll take the strawman issue as settled.

But you're really two steps forward, one step back, aren't you? You've now accused me of backpeddling. To my mind, to secretly backpeddle, and then act as if that's what you were saying all along, is akin to lying.
I would appreciate it if you would substantiate this charge, or retract it.

[Flagg]

Oh, sure - my household is computer literate enough to do that.

The problem is that not everyone is that computer literate, and the way MS is going about this does result in people winding up with an upgrade they don't want.

Frankly, why are you so fucking upset at other peoples' issues over this? Do you bitch about Amish people not using electricity, too?

Because it's whining over the fact that people are being "forced" to do something when that is explicitly not the case? And if you are really too computer illiterate to do a google search and follow the steps describing how to avoid an update, that sounds like a you issue, not an MS issue.

And last I checked the Amish generally don't whine about electricity, they simply don't have it hooked up to thier homes. And it's becaus God told them to, so they limit the quality of their lives based completely on the idiotic idea that an invisible man in the sky will get mad at them for joining the vast majority of the human race. So if you want to lump yourself into a religious movement based on ludditism, then by all means, and thanks for making my point for me.

[Broomstick]

Except... some do. I have found people running small, start-up businesses often do not have adequate computer skills – because their skills are somewhere else, which is what they're trying to sell to make a living.

Well, that's unfortunate for those people but my sympathy for them is somewhat limited. If you depend on your car to earn a living, it's generally expected that you should be capable of replacing a wheel if you get a blow-out and know how to tell when the oil needs changing... and to be able to recognise when the time's come to bite the bullet and replace the vehicle entirely because it's becoming uneconomical to maintain. Should we expect less of people who depend on their computers?

I'm going to nitpick slightly here.

No, you do not have to know how to change a tire - but you do have to know how to call for "roadside assistance" and/or pay someone else to change your tire or tow you. In fact, even though I know how to change a tire last time I had a blow out I chose to call for a tow because changing a truck tire next to a traffic area with cars sliding half-out of control in a foot of snow during near-blizzard conditions struck me as kind of stupid. But that gets back to having CHOICES, not being mandated into a corporation saying no, you may never change your tire you must use only our official Tire Changing System.

With this "upgrade" many business owners do not, in fact, NEED to change their OS or software because what they are currently using is entirely adequate to their needs. It's not "biting the bullet" because your car is worn out, it's being told you have to discard a car that is still perfectly serviceable.

If we're talking WordStar 5.1 for DOS, the easiest solution might be to download the free trial version of the current WordPerfect edition and see if it'll let you save them in modern .wpd format, which OpenOffice claims to be able to open.

Nope, not WordStar.

I'm talking about WordPerfect 5.1 one, which was a marvelous program for its time and which I used from the late 80's through the late 90's. Unfortunately, while OpenOffice used to open those files with little or not problem it no longer does so. I have a work-around but it's very cumbersome.

But maybe that website has something I can use, it would be nice.

[Broomstick]

Because it's whining over the fact that people are being "forced" to do something when that is explicitly not the case?

It is the case the MS makes it annoying at best, and cumbersome, to avoid getting the upgrade you don't want. It may be legal, but is creepy as hell.

And if you are really too computer illiterate to do a google search and follow the steps describing how to avoid an update, that sounds like a you issue, not an MS issue.

Thank you very much, but MY household has a grip on this. The difference between me and you is that I recognize that not everyone else is me.

And last I checked the Amish generally don't whine about electricity, they simply don't have it hooked up to thier homes. And it's becaus God told them to, so they limit the quality of their lives based completely on the idiotic idea that an invisible man in the sky will get mad at them for joining the vast majority of the human race. So if you want to lump yourself into a religious movement based on ludditism, then by all means, and thanks for making my point for me.

Actually, no, it's not because God told them electricity had cooties or something, but I don't expect you to make any attempt to understand others. The Amish actually will use electricity, and indeed, any other modern tech, under certain conditions. The difference is that they don't "upgrade" because everyone else does, they do so when they perceive it to be of benefit to them.

But, again, I don't expect everyone else to be me. Unlike you, who gets pissed off when it's pointed out not everyone is you.

[Edi]

Broomstick, no argument about the operating system companies wanting to lock users in to their systems.

I don't like MS very much and I'm willing to go to the trouble of avoiding upgrades until I want them. Same reason why I make damned sure I have all of my important stuff secured from vendor lock-in.

Another side of the coin is that since operating systems are used under a license that allows the vendor to make unilateral changes pretty much as they please, it's either bite the bullet or deal with the hassle for many people. And since I deal with average or below average skill computer users daily at work, I do not see the move to homogenize the Microsoft portion of the market as a generally bad thing. There are technical reasons for it, related to the capabilities of new hardware, as well as for Microsoft the obvious cost savings of not needing to support a plethora of systems at the same time and duplicating effort.

The driving market segments for MS are corporate on one hand and pure consumer side on the other. Small and medium businesses, while plentiful, are not numerically significant enough to impact the decisions and in a technical sense belong to the consumer market segment. Corporate gets left alone because of its clout and consumer side gets dictated to, because it lacks similar influence.

By the way, Microsoft is as dominant elsewhere as it is in the US, though we shall see how this goes. It has been using the blunt instrument approach for a fairly long time now, but this time it seems to be asking for a backlash.

Oh, and you could try to install an older version of Open Office, save the files in .sxw and then use a modern version of the program to save them to ODT.

[Broomstick]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll still have to do a bit of research, and figure out which earlier version I need to use.

I understand that they changed things because the macro functions in earlier versions of WordPerfect left people open to certain types of malware, but since the files I'd be translating are entirely mine and have never left my control I know they're clean.

[Flagg]

Because it's whining over the fact that people are being "forced" to do something when that is explicitly not the case?

It is the case the MS makes it annoying at best, and cumbersome, to avoid getting the upgrade you don't want. It may be legal, but is creepy as hell.

And if you are really too computer illiterate to do a google search and follow the steps describing how to avoid an update, that sounds like a you issue, not an MS issue.

Thank you very much, but MY household has a grip on this. The difference between me and you is that I recognize that not everyone else is me.

And last I checked the Amish generally don't whine about electricity, they simply don't have it hooked up to thier homes. And it's becaus God told them to, so they limit the quality of their lives based completely on the idiotic idea that an invisible man in the sky will get mad at them for joining the vast majority of the human race. So if you want to lump yourself into a religious movement based on ludditism, then by all means, and thanks for making my point for me.

Actually, no, it's not because God told them electricity had cooties or something, but I don't expect you to make any attempt to understand others. The Amish actually will use electricity, and indeed, any other modern tech, under certain conditions. The difference is that they don't "upgrade" because everyone else does, they do so when they perceive it to be of benefit to them.

But, again, I don't expect everyone else to be me. Unlike you, who gets pissed off when it's pointed out not everyone is you.

No, I get angry when people whine about things that aren't true (like the entire OP and thread title) and make no attemp to mitigate their perceived losses while blaming it all on the big bad evil company that in reality is releasing a huge improvement people used to pay hundreds of dollars for, free. Even when I openly say that I dislike the way they are going about it. Now go play with your spinning wheel.

And if you seriously think I want everyone to be me, then you may want to be tested for dementia. I'd just like people to use their fucking brains every now and then, try to take the most basic of action in order to mitigate real or mostly perceived losses rather than sitting and wallowing in their own feces and crying about it.

[Broomstick]

You know what? I'm done with you in this thread. The rest of us are having an actual discussion. You're being a poo-flinging monkey.

[Flagg]

MS Office Excel and Access are compatible with VB 6. Word (as opposed to WordPad) also has a spelling and grammar checker, and the ability to create and edit tables.


I'm familiar with hyperbole. I'm also familiar with hyperbole used to strawman and then ridicule another person's position.

Strawman? Yeah, not a strawman, just a bad example as Edi said, and I'm happy to concede to that. However the hyperbole was lumping you in with the whiners who complained about the big bad organization (in that case the US Government) forcing them (or to use your wordage: "push") to stop using ancient technology by taking it off the market. So I'll admit the hyperbole was inaccurate, but it was far from a strawman.

Help me out here, Flagg. I'm looking at my first post, and trying to find where I:
(1) Said that MicroSoft should continue to support sixteen year old software
(2) Complained that they weren't.

You said you were concerned that you wouldn't be able to use your ancient software. Logically this leads any rational person to believe that you think MS should continue to support your ancient software. Not to mention your thinking that upgrading from an equally ancient OS was a mistake. And that you hate feeling "pushed" is just icing on the lol-cake since its been repeated ad nauseum that you don't have to upgrade, you can avoid it completely. But then you would have to do something, and you seem to not want to do anything. But by all means, continue backpedaling.

Logically this leads any rational, thoughtful person to believe that I was concerned I may not be able to continue to use my ancient software, but to realise anything beyond that is pure speculation.

I have no idea what this thing about the US Government is, but I'll take the strawman issue as settled.

But you're really two steps forward, one step back, aren't you? You've now accused me of backpeddling. To my mind, to secretly backpeddle, and then act as if that's what you were saying all along, is akin to lying.
I would appreciate it if you would substantiate this charge, or retract it.

Umm, the government banned the manufacture and sale of carbon filament light bulbs because they wasted electricity and lasted a fraction of the amount of time that newer lightbulb technology did and whining dickbags complained that they were being "pushed" into using new technology.

That said, the backpedaling accusation is incorrect and I retract it with apologies, as I got the sequence of what you said in your posts confused. This was totally my error, so fully retracted, and I'm sorry. Fucking brain farts.

[Flagg]

You know what? I'm done with you in this thread. The rest of us are having an actual discussion. You're being a poo-flinging monkey.

Sorry, but mocking your ludditism, post skimming, and general ignorance is not "poo flinging". It's just making fun of an idiot.

That said, I'm not lucid enough to continue, as my confusion over the sequence of events with Korto's posts illustrates, so for the threads sake, I'll be leaving it. Any other factual errors I've made I can only attribute to this, so apologies. To everyone but Broomstick.

[Edi]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'll still have to do a bit of research, and figure out which earlier version I need to use.

I understand that they changed things because the macro functions in earlier versions of WordPerfect left people open to certain types of malware, but since the files I'd be translating are entirely mine and have never left my control I know they're clean.

That version of Open Office I linked to is 1.0.x, so it should definitely be old enough to qualify.

[Grumman]

You know what? I'm done with you in this thread. The rest of us are having an actual discussion. You're being a poo-flinging monkey.

Sorry, but mocking your ludditism...

Flagg, please shut the fuck up. Luddism means opposing superior, more efficient solutions on the basis that you personally profit from the inefficiency - someone who sees a machine that allows one man to do the work of ten, and blames the man and the machine for putting the other nine out of work. It does not mean someone who refuses to jeopardise the most important piece of technology they own with an unneeded "upgrade".

[Ralin]

Flagg, please shut the fuck up. Luddism means opposing superior, more efficient solutions on the basis that you personally profit from the inefficiency - someone who sees a machine that allows one man to do the work of ten, and blames the man and the machine for putting the other nine out of work. It does not mean someone who refuses to jeopardise the most important piece of technology they own with an unneeded "upgrade".

And not even unjustly opposes them. From what I understand the original Luddites were being pretty seriously dicked over and made some uncomfortably good criticisms of the new system they were resisting.

[Flagg]

Hey, look, it's the peanut gallery attacking someone who has already left the thread.

[Flagg]

Oh, and for the record, since language changes, and that's been the subject of many arguments on this BBS, "Luddite" in the modern vernacular pretty much just means "anyone who refuses to utilize or adapt to new and changing technology". Just like if you called someone who doesn't generally appreciate art and literature a "Phillistine", despite the fact that the actual Phillistines had wonderful and sophisticated works of art.

[Edi]

Regardless, please just shut up. You're not contributing anything of substance to this thread.

[Flagg]

Regardless, please just shut up. You're not contributing anything of substance to this thread.

I am shutting up, and I have, because you are 100% correct.

But in my defense, I just felt the need to defend myself since after I had stated that I was leaving the thread Grumman felt the need to address me personally and Ralin had a follow up to his post which also addressed me. Those posts I made (it was supposed to be a single post but I'd hit "submit" instead of "preview" and didn't realize it until I couldn't edit the rest of my reply in) was just a response to Grumman and Ralin, not any sort of continued participation in the overall discussion, which I already said I was leaving.

I probably should have added that the reply was relegated to just those 2 posts, not further participation in the rest of the thread, and I regret any confusion on that point.

That said, this is my last post in this thread, and I'd appreciate it if no other members tell me to "Shut the fuck up" (not directed at you, Edi) again after I make it plain that I've already done so.

[Ralin]

I should probably clarify that I wasn't making a language nitpick at Flagg. I was pointing out the less known aspect of the Luddites as an example to drive home the point that there are good reasons why people reject theoretically more efficient innovations when it comes to their livelihood. Pretty sure it was directed at least as much at Grumman as him.

[Tribble]

Quick personal update:

Since I went back to Windows 7, I had turned off automatic updates to prevent anything Windows 10 related from being downloaded. I haven't installed any updates that were made after 2014, just to be safe. Things were good for a month. Yet when I turned on my computer just now, I found the "Get Windows 7" icon on my taskbar. Even worse, the computer was set back to automatically install everything, and no doubt I now have a copy of Windows 10 back on my computer waiting to be installed. Clearly some setting was changed and something was downloaded without my knowledge or consent. WTF?

Now I'm going to have to redo my computer again to clear it out, since the get windows 10 app permanently alters the registry to try and force Windows 10 into the computer.

And to be clear, I'm not interested in Windows 10 and all its spyware and copyright issues, I don't care if it's better in other ways, I don't want to use it. Not to mention that I'm barred from using it since it could compromise client confidentiality. Having it forced onto my computer without my knowledge or consent is plain wrong. With that attitude, there's no way in hell I'm going to buy another MS product.

[Simon_Jester]

The confidentiality issue is particularly significant...

I'm not getting how Microsoft can be blithely indifferent to that issue.

I'm also not clear on how Microsoft can expect customers to give up on having automatic support for their products, actively have to hack into their own computers' systems and make a registry edit* or whatever to keep it off their computers... and then not worry about someone suing them for effectively sabotaging the computer of some lawyer or physician or whatever so that it spills confidential information to them.
____________

*Yes, I know what a registry edit is and how to do one, to some extent I'm being dramatic, but still.

[Wild Zontargs]

On the "forced updates within Windows 10" front, apparently there's another buggy update going around. On top of breaking various features for some users, if it fails to install properly, it can prevent Windows from booting, even in Safe Mode, requiring a re-install of the OS.

[Tribble]

On the "forced updates within Windows 10" front, apparently there's another buggy update going around. On top of breaking various features for some users, if it fails to install properly, it can prevent Windows from booting, even in Safe Mode, requiring a re-install of the OS.

Hmmm, my understanding was that Windows 10 doesn't even have a safe mode, or at least one that is easily accessible or useful. Not only is there no shortcut key, apparently you have to boot normally and then restart the computer in order to use it? That kinda defeats the whole purpose.