STGOD 4 OOC Thread

[Dahak]

Just slag the planet from orbit, that's what I did

My people don't need your filthy muddy planets <g>

[Sea Skimmer]

Hell, how well would they be trained for melee combat? No one uses it anymore. However, magically enhanced melees are EXACTLY what my army does.

Your troops will simply be slaughtered in combat by anyone. There are fundamental disadvantages to melee fighting (mainly the melee soldier's zone of influence on combat, which is about a twenty thousandth of that of a guy with an assault rifle) that are rather hard to overcome and are why melee combat is normally a minor part of training for troops outside of specialized MP units.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am not saying we dont used ranged weapons... But when you have a volley of magically enhanced explosive arrows(no real difference from a massed volley of missiles or RPGs) and then all of the suddenyou have heavily armored(magically) troops armed with blades that cut through your power armor suddenly appear seemingly out of nowhere(non-detection spells)... It wont be a cakewalk like you seem to think.

[Sea Skimmer]

I am not saying we dont used ranged weapons... But when you have a volley of magically enhanced explosive arrows(no real difference from a massed volley of missiles or RPGs) and then all of the suddenyou have heavily armored(magically) troops armed with blades that cut through your power armor suddenly appear seemingly out of nowhere(non-detection spells)... It wont be a cakewalk like you seem to think.

No it still will be, because I'm not intent to accept any form of invincible cloaking just because you want to spin an absurd military. So when the fleet of sensor platforms my armies haul around notice a hoard of idiots with swords advancing on them, they are going to treat them to a nice standing barrier fire mission and then open up with everything they've got while laughing.

[Marcao]

I have some reservation about Alyrium's "Prismatic Sphere" ability, considering that it has no limts. Yes, the ship becomes invulnerable (god knows for how long) and the only limitation is that the ship cannot fire once this is done. This opens up the door for...

1. invulnerable scouts, flying through another's territory while laughing at enemy defenses.

2. Invulnerable missiles, that deactivate the prismatic sphere inches from the target's hulls.

3. Invulnerable drop ships, that can land their cargo/payload anywhere.

Am I the only one that finds the possibilities disturbing?

[Thirdfain]

I second that. I'm all for a carefully quantified and limited approach to magic in the STGOD. When I write a full OOB, Im intend on setting very specific limits for my own power's combat thaumaturges and obfuscators.

[SirNitram]

Prismatic Sphere has never been inpenetrable. Any technological or magical effect that produces a conical blast of ice crystals will destroy the outermost layer and allow unenchanted ordinance through unhindered(Though energy weapons would require a few more, similar, specially made penetrators).

[Alyrium Denryle]

1. invulnerable scouts, flying through another's territory while laughing at enemy defenses.

The sphere is also immobile Forgot to mention that.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I am not saying we dont used ranged weapons... But when you have a volley of magically enhanced explosive arrows(no real difference from a massed volley of missiles or RPGs) and then all of the suddenyou have heavily armored(magically) troops armed with blades that cut through your power armor suddenly appear seemingly out of nowhere(non-detection spells)... It wont be a cakewalk like you seem to think.

No it still will be, because I'm not intent to accept any form of invincible cloaking just because you want to spin an absurd military. So when the fleet of sensor platforms my armies haul around notice a hoard of idiots with swords advancing on them, they are going to treat them to a nice standing barrier fire mission and then open up with everything they've got while laughing.

Is that before or after the same sword barring morons launch a long range attack with a hail of powerful attack spells, while dedicated mages bombard your groundtroops with conjured meteorites?

And you forget that these "Idiots with Swords" not only have enchanted blades up, but also serve as their own artillery and are clad in magical defenses that repel your ener gy and projectile weapons in any nnumber of ways(spells will be explained in detail in the OOB) There will be a limited number that are useful in combat.

[Thirdfain]

hmm. Can a vessel burn her engines, get up speed, and coast through a system with her prismshield up?

[Alyrium Denryle]

No. Unless they want to leave the sphere. They can enter an exit it at will, but if they want to keep its protection, they will have to stay still.

[Marcao]

I am not saying we dont used ranged weapons... But when you have a volley of magically enhanced explosive arrows(no real difference from a massed volley of missiles or RPGs) and then all of the suddenyou have heavily armored(magically) troops armed with blades that cut through your power armor suddenly appear seemingly out of nowhere(non-detection spells)... It wont be a cakewalk like you seem to think.

No it still will be, because I'm not intent to accept any form of invincible cloaking just because you want to spin an absurd military. So when the fleet of sensor platforms my armies haul around notice a hoard of idiots with swords advancing on them, they are going to treat them to a nice standing barrier fire mission and then open up with everything they've got while laughing.

Is that before or after the same sword barring morons launch a long range attack with a hail of powerful attack spells, while dedicated mages bombard your groundtroops with conjured meteorites?

And you forget that these "Idiots with Swords" not only have enchanted blades up, but also serve as their own artillery and are clad in magical defenses that repel your ener gy and projectile weapons in any nnumber of ways(spells will be explained in detail in the OOB) There will be a limited number that are useful in combat.

Okay, so let me get this straight. your arrows are RPG equivalent, have enchanted blades that are akin to light sabers, are their own artillery, and are clad in magical defenses akin to powered armor. I take it your army will be the smallest in the game to represent the incredible amount of "stuff" that they can do? You ARE going for quality over quantity right? Is there a limit to the magical abilities of your individual casters or are they all demi-gods with never ending mana pools?

I don't want to seem to be ragging on you Alyrium, but the more you talk about your stuff the more questions I have about its limitations and such.

[Thirdfain]

No. Unless they want to leave the sphere. They can enter an exit it at will, but if they want to keep its protection, they will have to stay still.

Velocity and relativity are mighty important, Alyrium. Stay still in reference to what? the nearest planet? the nearest star?

[Alyrium Denryle]

Well, I am using a magic based society. If you play 3rd edition, you will note the Arcane Archer prestige class. Hunter-seeker arrows that are enchanted with a fireball spell. I have upped the power on fireball to be equivalent with a missile(hand launched)

The swords arent equivalent to lightsabers, but they are enhanced, and would be able to cut through power armor if given a good direct strike that was square with the armor itself. WOuld cut through like butter by any means.

The tropps are basically fighter-mages. Their spell selction is limited, so they have to be conservative with them. they cant toss around disintegrate like water, but they can get it off a few times a day.

Magic misile on the other hand is a handy little spell that can generally be dished out like it is blaster fire(which is about the equivalent.)

There IS troop division.

Arcane Archers: Cast spells upon arrows that are launched at long range. There are generally area effect spells

Mage-Blades: limited spell selction, usually a few defensive spells(ironguard against projectile weapons, stoneskin, energy buffer, shield, mage armor) and a couple offensive spells(magic missile disintegrate, and fireball) and transport spells(Blink, dimnension door). They also carry enchanted blades that are capable of getting through their opponents armor. They Dimension Door to melee range and wreck havoc. Or at least try to.

Battle mages: Run the gammut. These are the heavily enchanted with spell protections and lob HEAVY atack spells(Meteor swarm, chain disintegrate, circle of death.. Hellball)

Basically they are capable of anything a normal army can do, they just use a different mechanism.

Though with my army, I am going for Quality over Quantity to an extent. They take a long time to properly train and are expensive to produce. Even if we can conjure the materials those spells exact a price and cant be pumped out like water(Xp cost to the creators)

[Alyrium Denryle]

No. Unless they want to leave the sphere. They can enter an exit it at will, but if they want to keep its protection, they will have to stay still.

Velocity and relativity are mighty important, Alyrium. Stay still in reference to what? the nearest planet? the nearest star?

As in stationary. They cant move outside the spells radius, which is just a little bigger than the ship. It takes them completely after maneuvers, and combat while they stay within the spell.

[Thirdfain]

look, stationary doesn't mean crap in space. Stationary in relation to what?

Let's say your fleet is accelerating towards a wall of battle. the enemy wall of battle fires a missile barrage. Will your whole fleet have to hit their thrusters into reverse until they are no longer moving towards the enemy fleet before activating the spell?


Oh, and here's a quick exercise. A company (roughly 200 men) of conventional troops are equipped with man-portable sensor units (assume IR, motion, and radar tracking, perhaps subspace as well.), crew-served heavy weapons (rocket launchers, support automatic weapons, perhaps some mortar equivalents) are arrayed in a defensive line, dug in, and with awareness of incoming enemies. How many of your "spellblades" would it take to defeat them easily?

[Dahak]

So, I might as well post it, so it can get ripped apart by you guys...

My forces are seperated in basically3 branches.

The Navy. It consists of the Battle Line, favouring ships heavier than average, and the Screen, consisting mostly of carriers, and fast destroyers, cruisers.
Growing up in floating cities without ground, flying is taught from early stages on and comes natural to them, thus the fighter pilots are one of the galaxies very best. The fighters are controlled via neural interfacing (as is all of Gladsheim tech) and utilizing grav tech are very fast and nimble.
The Army. Amounts to glorified naval marines. Using mostly heavy power armour. As there is no need for ground warfare (without ground to fight on), they excel at ship-to-ship and boarding operations. As they have not fought anything remotely like a ground war in quite a looong time, they "suck ass" at that kind of operation.
The Planetary Defenses. Maintaining the orbital mine fields, Orbital Defense Centers they are responsible for the defense of the home systems. They also are responsible for the Atmospheric Navy, guarding and protecting the atmospheres of the gas giants.

The systems are heavily defended, as the Gladsheim people tend to be slightly xenophobic (haven't had outside contact for a very long time), and prefer to stick to their own.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Let's say your fleet is accelerating towards a wall of battle. the enemy wall of battle fires a missile barrage. Will your whole fleet have to hit their thrusters into reverse until they are no longer moving towards the enemy fleet before activating the spell?

Ja. Thrustw would have to hit full reverse and forward acceleration would have to stop. The spell is an emergency measure for crippled or heavily damaged ships though, seeing as it is only capable of being cast once per day by any one ship captain.

Essentially if the ship is on point C in relation to planet A and Planet B, it would have to stay in the same position in relation to planet A an B.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Oh, and here's a quick exercise. A company (roughly 200 men) of conventional troops are equipped with man-portable sensor units (assume IR, motion, and radar tracking, perhaps subspace as well.), crew-served heavy weapons (rocket launchers, support automatic weapons, perhaps some mortar equivalents) are arrayed in a defensive line, dug in, and with awareness of incoming enemies. How many of your "spellblades" would it take to defeat them easily?

Roughly equal numbers, perhaps around 250-275 due to the existing defenses. with there defensive spells up they would have a good chance of not being hurt by projectile weapons, they would be protected from shrapnel, and they could take a few hits from hand held energy weapons before going down. They would also have a limited number of ofensive spells that could be used to weaken enemy defenses before dimension door(short range teleportation well within the arena of what is possible with our tech level) is used to close into melee range. After that, it depends on how well these troops are trained for melee combat.

If Battle Mages are also in that fight, then it becomes a bit asier and you would ned considerably less men, probably in the 150 range.

Once OOB are posted a rather large section will be devoted to ground forces, spells and things along those lines will be quantified at that time.

[Thirdfain]

The Crobuzon Imperial Navy's doctorine focuses on the Wall of Battle. The center of the Crobuzon fleet is the Ship of the Line- massive dreadnoughts built as large as is possible. This being the case, the Crobuzon Imperial Navy is relatively small, consisting of a mere 16 massive Ships of the Line, three truly monumental but lightly armed Fleet Tenders, and a couple hundred assorted scout, patrol, and escort craft.

The CIN uses no conventional offensive fighters, though a Crobuzon Ship of the Line will launch interceptors to defend against enemy fighter craft.

the Crobuzon Empire is located far from normal space, a solid week's journey rimwards of the playing area, but is slightly larger than the other powers in game, with a larger than normal navy. This is offset by the fact that the section of the Crobuzon Empire which people are in contact with consists of only 4 recently conquered systems in Known Space, three of which are only lightly developed. Only half the Crobuzon Navy is available for operations in Known Space, and more can not be redirected to Known Space without leaving the Empire's home systems vulnerable, with reinforcements a week away.

The Crobuzon Line Marines are a professional, veteran fighting force, used to combat in Known Space. Line Marines were the ones who took the 4 crobuzon-held systems in Known Space, and are familiar with dealing with the "Natives." Because the Navy handles most offensive operations by itself, the Marines are larger than comparative branches in other nations, as they must operate as long-term invasion forces.

The Crobuzon Militia's general infantry are not militia troops- (the name is a holdover from when New Crobuzon was a single city centuries ago.) Never the less, they are not as well trained as the Line Marines, despite being far more plentiful. Militia troops have not yet been deployed to Known Space in significant amounts, with only a couple of divisions present as communications and rear-area soldiers.

[Straha]

I am, and I'm not. The thing I was/am planning with the Army is that though the army is unbeatable on the ground,

Bingo, your planning on being even WORSE then last time.

they cannot physically project any power between the stars, and that the political wing of the government is set back in the days of the war, and thus keeping the military from gaining any useful military allies for a future war.

How about no way. Giving yourself an invincible force of any kind is unacceptable. As is your attempt to make it balanced based solely off how you decide to play the game.

Fair enough, how about this. I cut the size down to 400 Army Regiments (300 line, 100 Garrison) and 100 marine regiments. And the advantage is only on the offensive for Line and Marine regiments, whereas Garrison Regiments have a defensive advantage. And the advantage would be more like something on the lines of 2-1 equivilency.
Would that work with you?


The Astral Navy, however, would still be equivalent to a third world navy.

[Thirdfain]

This sounds good to me.

[Dahak]

WOUld OKM shields be ok for main battle line units?

And additional info on my people...
The planets are outside known space, several days of normal travel. Recent scouts have found some backwater planet in known space, but have yet not made full contact. The Grand Empire has inserted a hidden outpost in an out-of-the-way system's gas giant, and begun construction of a Gate there so it would allow the transfer of materiel and ships.

[Thirdfain]

WTF are OKM shields?

[Raxmei]

A prequel series could be interesting. I think at this point in time I'm in between empires, in the decades of anarchy and civil war following the collapse of the old regime. That should be fun to play out.