World of Warships

[Jub]

Dude, play Tier X before you make any stupid assumptions. I am done with this. The game does not work how you think it does. So reach Tier X and then come back.

You might notice that cruisers aren't anywhere near the top of the game in terms of win rate once you get beyond tier 6. If cruisers were as awesome as you claim they are, they should be influencing even high tier games very heavily. As it stands only the Zao even comes close to doing what you claim tier 10 cruisers should be doing, and on your server that still puts in behind both tier 10 carriers, the Yamato, the Khabarovsk, and the Gearing. Is it a good sign that the best cruiser is behind the entirety of another class's end tier ships in terms of game impact?

[Thanas]

My apologies for blowing up at you, but I can only relate from my own experience, having grinded both BB lines to Tier X. What is your highest tier?

[Jub]

My apologies for blowing up at you, but I can only relate from my own experience, having grinded both BB lines to Tier X. What is your highest tier?

No worries, I'm guilty of worse myself.

My highest tier that I've ground to is 7, the Colorado, but I have an Atago as my tier 8 premium. I've played a little rank 10+ and I've honestly found cruisers to be hopeless, not just in my hands but in general. I would much rather lose a cruiser than a destroyer, battleship, or carrier, so long as the captains are of equal skill, as I feel each of these classes can influence a game more.

Those aren't the highest tier ships I've played though I did play a fair bit in the beta though and did get to tier 10 in the US BB and cruiser lines. Plus, I do watch some streamers and my roommate has a tier 9 and I've seen him play.

There probably isn't anything but subject like or dislike for the capabilities of a class between us. Not to mention that your server seems to have many more good DDs and carriers to fight, which does give a cruiser more of a role. I've faced Zao's in my Atago and good ones can be a ghost and play as you've described, but far more often they can't manage to keep stealth once the battle gets even slightly chaotic, and if they don't focus on me even the Atago can score cits on them with fair ease.

[Thanas]

That might just be the shitty atago players on NA server though (EU got it earlier iirc and has more atago players anyway).

Here are two videos of excellent Atago play, one in ranked:

[Thanas]

Wow.

So it turns out that a supertester, one of the guys whose WG balances the game after, was using aimassist cheats.
http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.p ... d/#topmost

And the fucking supertester community just closes rank around him. No wander the game is in such a shitty state if that is how Supertesters go about it.

[Venator]

Motherfucketybollocks.

I had JUST gotten back into the game having found the sound artifact and lag improved.

[Thanas]

Fuck the supertesters if they actually try and defend that bullshit.

Some guy took a look at the replay in question and installed the aim assist cheat. Look how surprisingly close the Supertester in question is always following the aim assist cheat...

https://a.pomf.cat/pokdxu.webm

And notice the telltale jerk on how quickly he changed aim when the aim assist cheat also changed. If that person is not banned immediately I will riot.

[Jub]

That video is pretty damning, especially when taken with the questions Ducat1st0 refused to answer, the original post being deleted, and the fact that WG locked the thread and made a statement about looking into things.

[Borgholio]

So...it's possible that a large number of changes and "fixes" to accuracy are a result of feedback from cheaters. The whole system could be fucked.

[Thanas]

Yeah I was wondering how so many of the patch notes seemed to fix things that did not need any fixing.

That said, I have watched the full replay and it might not be that damning - for example, he misses a lot of shots on a cruiser and does not really aim well outside of those instances.

Post 9:53

EDIT: Oh wait, he only starts missing once he is called on the aimbot. That changes this a bit.

[Vendetta]

So...it's possible that a large number of changes and "fixes" to accuracy are a result of feedback from cheaters. The whole system could be fucked.

Although with Wargaming's legendary balance skills, who'd be able to tell?

[Borgholio]

So...it's possible that a large number of changes and "fixes" to accuracy are a result of feedback from cheaters. The whole system could be fucked.

Although with Wargaming's legendary balance skills, who'd be able to tell?

Not me, to be honest. Never played WoT before so I'm kinda in the dark on how they do things.

[Thanas]

So anyway, on to the cruiser debate. I decided to put my XP where my mouth is and decided to grind cruisers, specifically US cruisers because people kinda claim that they are bad. So far I got 31 battles in her, a winrate of 71% and 1417 average base XP. With a 1.32 kill rate per game.

And after finishing all the upgrades, these were my first three games with the cleveland today:





....yeah. Cleveland is a monster.

So I decided to check if this was just the cleveland and jumped into the Karlsruhe. She sucked, but I got the Königsberg.
My first game with her, all unupgraded:




Now none of this is past Tier 6 but so far it seems to me that cruisers can dominate a lot if you know how to angle, where to drive on the maps and always look out for the enemies line of fire. Which kinda matches my impressions so far from high tier BB play.

[Jub]

We obviously disagree about cruisers and you're a well above average player while I'm at best average, but I think you'll find that cruisers do start to fall off at tier 7 and higher. I don't doubt that you'll still have an impact in them, it takes a truly awful turd like the post nerf Sims to bring a good player down, but I do think you'll start to struggle more to have the same kind of impact.

[Nephtys]

Nobody ever could consider the Cleveland bad. Nobody with the slightest shred of skill at least.

It makes sense on Tier 7 and onwards though: I don't see the appeal of the heavy cruisers too much, particularly US. Because at that point, you lose many of your best qualities (super high ROF, great maneuverability) to become half-assed battleships (15 second reload, 8-10 second rudder shift, similar size), while having zero armor, no repair party and worse range.

Because of skills, the Light Cruisers (Cleveland especially) outrange their higher tier counterparts by several kilometers!
I've got the fully upgraded Pensacola now, and it doesn't hold a candle in performance at her tier alas.

[Borgholio]

Because of skills, the Light Cruisers (Cleveland especially) outrange their higher tier counterparts by several kilometers!

I just got into the Konigsberg and I really don't want to move up for exactly that reason. It's fast, accurate and has quick reload times.

[Thanas]

Well I only got 24k XP to go for the Pensacola so I should be able to finish with the Cleveland in about 8-12 battles. Will report on the Pensacola when I get her.

[Nephtys]

Pensacola is the most horrible thing ever when you unlock her.

Mine's elite now, and I do okay with it. Generally around 70k damage games... which I'd do in a Kongo or Cleveland anyway. But if you make a single mistake, game over.

Not really a fan, even though I do know how to use her... too passive for me, compared to how IJN competing cruisers can be aggressive and get away with much the same.

[Nephtys]

Okay, just did a set of astoundingly good rounds in Pensacola. One for 100k-odd damage and 7k XP...
That game, I spent about 10 minutes at 3000 HP. From three enemy battleship hits. Just gotta keep dodging, and never ever use your aft guns except at an approach or retreat angle, and only when not under ANY fire.

So... basically exactly like a Kongo. Only without the ability to soak up a little inconsequential fire, as any hit is stupidly consequential. Thank heavens Atago captains are awful despite their massively superior ships.

[Venator]

Big update today.

http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/comm ... tch-notes/

I'm having trouble actually typing these words because they're so alien, but... "Wargaming.net buffed the Germans and nerfed the Russians." I don't think those words have ever been used together before.

Along with a host of functionality, optimization and system changes/improvements.

There seems to be a big change for (at least Japanese) torpedo bombers but I can't interpret what it means.

Edit: And they lowered XP gain for the Wyoming. Now I'll never be free of it...

[Nephtys]

So uh. I put 5 dollars into the secret santa.

I got 1500 dubloons and a Tirpitz out of it.

What the hell, WG slot machine?! Thank you!

[Jub]

Damn, that's a good haul.

I bought 18 gifts and snagged 4,400 doubloons and 4 camouflage packs. Not bad, I might spin the wheel again for the chance at a ship, but I'll wait until after New Years.

[Thanas]

So I got the unupgraded Pensacola. She definitely requires a different playstyle, much more playing like a BB instead of a cruiser. That said, her unupgraded stats are not that different from what I pulled in the unupgraded Cleveland. Right now, 60% winrate (down 10% from fully upgraded cleveland) 31,344 average damage (36,438 in fully upgraded Cleveland) 1,729 average base XP (up from 1,432 in Cleveland) and 0.60 kills per match (down from 1.31 in fully upgraded cleveland). So right now I am doing a bit less damage, but get more XP.

The thing that stands out to me right now is the bad turret traverse with it. But the rudder shift upgrade seems to mitigate that problem. Pensacola also has great armor IMO when you can angle against enemy ships. She is a great cruiser killer too but is much worse against DDs than the cleveand due to the turret traverse.

So IMO right now the stats for an unupgraded Pensacola seem to be slightly worse than the stats for the fully upgraded cleveland. Which is the way it should be for an unupgraded ship. I suspect that once my upgrades for the Pensacola are in, I shall perform the same or better with her as I do with the cleveland and that is against higher competition.

[darthkommandant]

So that's why my Karlsruhe feels like it performs better post patch.

My other ship Fuso ( B type hull plus engine upgrade cause it is painful stock), is a monster. I don't think I am going down the line further than this for economy reasons and fun reasons.

[Venator]

Sad that they don't accept direct debit. But happy, because it'll save me a LOT on secret Santa dice-rolls.