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So I'm needing* to buy a new computer, and I've decided to look at laptops. I've always been bah, humbug! about laptops, but the convenience of having your PC on hand is pretty nice.
*not really

Since I don't know much about laptops, what are some good brands to go for? I'm looking for a desktop replacement. At the moment I'm only playing WoW, BF2, and Eve, nothing too demanding.

The Gateway NX560XL has the best specs for the money I've found. For the starting price of $1.2k, you get a T5600 Core 2, 2 GB RAM, 15.4"" screen, and a Radeon X1400.
For a starting price of $1900, the NX860XL has a 17'' screen, Core 2 T7200 and 7900 GS.

I've been told by people to stay away from Dell, but here's what they offer. Their XPS starts at $2300, and has about equal specs to the $1900 Gateway, except it has only 1GB RAM instead of 2. Winner, Gateway.

Other Dells aren't worth mentioning. They lack sufficient screen size (15-17''), or graphics options, or are more than I'm willing to spend for the performance.

Sony's Vaio line didn't look too bad.
Customizing a 17'' AR series to approximate the Gateway's above specs cost me about $2000. However, for some idiotic reason, they wouldn't let me select a 7600 GT (over the plain 7600) unless I also picked dual 80GBx2 hard drives.
Customizing a 15'' FE series to Gateway's specs cost me $1400, or $200 more. I do get a 7600 instead of the X1400, though.

I've heard good things about Acer's computers. Unfortunately, their website is not very informative, providing only a list of rather meaningless model numbers. Comparing specs is annoying, because you have to click each drop down selection, which opens a new window. Comparing prices is even more annoying, because they aren't listed at all.

Now, tech specs are easy to compare.
What I don't know are things like brand reliability, battery life, ergonomics, and a shopping list of all the other crap I might need to buy (carrying case/bag, AC adapter, spare batteries, etc.).

So what do you think is a good laptop?
I'm looking for...
recommendations on what to look for technically in a laptop,
recommendations on which brands you think are reliable, and
recommendations on owning a laptop.

I'll gladly take advice on ergonomics as well... for example, I like to have 10 key pads. My fingers are pretty spindley, but I still hate tiny keyboards with tiny keys because sometimes I type fast and mess up, and WASD has to work well also. I hate laptop finger pads, so I'd like to attach a proper mouse whenever possible (like those wireless USB mouse adapters).
Anyway, this is one thing best tested by me trying out different laptops at Best Buy.

And don't think I've forgotten about the good old PC.
The system I have in mind runs about $1200 - 1500 on Newegg. (E6300 or 6600, 2 GB RAM, 7600 GT or 7900 GS; complete system plus monitor)
I'm only getting a 7600 GT because it's easily good enough for the time being and forseeable future, and leaves the option open for a DX10 card later.
Performance wise, it blows away my laptops... but not by such a huge margin, and not for such a large reduction in cost, so that's why I'm considering a laptop as my next PC.

Basically, my options are:

$1200 - 1500 PC.
Covers just about everything. Will need a graphics card upgrade a little down the line, but fine for now.

~$1200 - 1400++ Laptop (15")
*Limited to X1400 or 7600 plain. Doesn't seem like I have much choice in the way of upgrading those, out of the ones I looked at.

~$1800 - 2000++ Laptop (17")

For both laptops, the base price only covers just the computer, but also comes with warranty and support.
I'm planning on upgrading the battery, and I'll need to buy accessories like chargers, adapters, bags, anti-theft devices.....

I know the end price for a laptop will be more than the starting price for just the computer itself. Let's put my budget at $1500 for a PC (I pretty much know what I'm already getting here), and $2500 for a high end laptop, everything included.

Are you willing to consider Apple machines? If so, let me know; I can provide reccomendations on those as well.

The Gateway you mentioned is decent; I've never owned one, but I have read and heard good things about their machines.

I'd affirm the things you've been told about Dell -- stay away from them unless cheapness (in every sense of the word) is your goal.

Vaios are decent, but I've found them to be overpriced considering the competition.

Would you consider IBM (<cough>Lenovo) machines? They're fairly solidly designed, and their keyboards are the best I've found on laptops after Macs.

In terms of what to look for, considering what you've mentioned about your usage, I'd say a decent 2+ GHz processor, at least 1GB of RAM and a 128+ MB video card, with however much storage you think you need; though it seems that you've already got these things covered given the types of machines you've been looking at.

In terms of reliability, Gateway Sony IBM and Apple all score reasonably well. Dell scores significantly less so as far as I know. There's a wealth of surveys, etc. available online; this is one from PC world that is reasonably comprehensive.

SeeingRed wrote:Are you willing to consider Apple machines? If so, let me know; I can provide reccomendations on those as well.

Yup. I've played around with some friends Macbooks. They're solid machines; they're also more expensive machines. The basic Macbook Pro costs $2000, for a 15" screen, T7x Merom, 1 GB RAM, and X1600. I'll also have to run Boot Camp to play most of my games. (I know WoW runs on Mac, but what about others?)
I won't positively rule out a Mac until I've tested its ergonomics more, but me being a switcher isn't likely at this point.

The Gateway you mentioned is decent; I've never owned one, but I have read and heard good things about their machines.

It looks good to me, from a technical point of view. I don't know how to compare it laptop-wise, is the problem.

I'd affirm the things you've been told about Dell -- stay away from them unless cheapness (in every sense of the word) is your goal.

Good to know.

Vaios are decent, but I've found them to be overpriced considering the competition.

I've noticed that. I thought maybe the price was justified, for reasons of quality or reliability? Maybe not.

Would you consider IBM (<cough>Lenovo) machines? They're fairly solidly designed, and their keyboards are the best I've found on laptops after Macs.

Yeah, I totally forgot IBM sold their PC line to Lenovo.
I'm on their site, but I can't find anywhere to customize a laptop. I'm looking at the 3000C series, but there's no option to upgrade anything. There's some very limited options for customization on the 3000N (widescreen) page, but it doesn't look like I can upgrade beyond the Intel 950.

In terms of reliability, Gateway Sony IBM and Apple all score reasonably well. Dell scores significantly less so as far as I know. There's a wealth of surveys, etc. available online; this is one from PC world that is reasonably comprehensive.

That's about a year old, but was still pretty helpful. Thanks.
That survey does support IBM's computers as relatively reliable, which is what I'm looking for.
Compaq at the bottom of the list? I've seen some bad things happen to Compaq desktops. Is their position on this survey justified?


Anyway, does anyone have general laptop buying/owning advice?
What else do I need to get, like AC adapters and such? Do I need extra batteries? What are recommended anti-theft measures?

I'd strongly recommend avoiding Sonys. They're generally overpriced, and they construct their machines so flimsily they feel like they're going to fall apart every time I handle one. Gateways are somewhat bottom tier as far as quality goes, though I wouldn't really recommend one unless you're strapped for cash.

HP is fairly decent as far as components go. I recently got one myself and for the most part I'm pretty satisfied. (Paid $750, got an 80gb hdd, 512mb memory, a 128mb graphics chip and a dual layer dvd burner) that all came with it. Dell I'd recommend avoiding as well, as they're generally crap. Toshibas are pretty good though, and a bit of a step up above HP in terms of quality build.

So overall the top brands I'd recommend in order of preference are IBM, Toshiba and HP. (HP specific models such as the Pavilion, mind you. Not Compaqs.)

Raven wrote:The basic Macbook Pro costs $2000, for a 15" screen, T7x Merom, 1 GB RAM, and X1600. I'll also have to run Boot Camp to play most of my games. (I know WoW runs on Mac, but what about others?)
I won't positively rule out a Mac until I've tested its ergonomics more, but me being a switcher isn't likely at this point.

Yes, they tend to be a bit more expensive, but for the price you get a (in most cases) thinner and lighter machine, with a somewhat better screen and often longer battery life. The included software (the iLife applications) is lauded by many as being unequaled by anything on windows machines; I dont know if any of that would be useful to you.

In terms of games, Apple's gaming site has a bunch of stuff related to gaming on the Mac including a list (on the right) of games for which Mac ports exist.

Raven wrote:I don't know how to compare it laptop-wise, is the problem.

What do you mean by, "compare it laptop-wise"?

Raven wrote:

Vaios are decent, but I've found them to be overpriced considering the competition.

I've noticed that. I thought maybe the price was justified, for reasons of quality or reliability? Maybe not.

Eh, not really. There are plenty of reliable high quality alternatives out there, IBM and, as General Zod mentioned, HP included.

Raven wrote:I'm on their site, but I can't find anywhere to customize a laptop. I'm looking at the 3000C series, but there's no option to upgrade anything. There's some very limited options for customization on the 3000N (widescreen) page, but it doesn't look like I can upgrade beyond the Intel 950.

I'd reccomend looking at the ThinkPad notebooks, which were the original IBM models that are now being sold under the Lenovo brand, here. The 3000 series was designed originally by Lenovo i think. From that link, you should be able to choose a line of notebooks and customize to your heart's content.

Raven wrote:Compaq at the bottom of the list? I've seen some bad things happen to Compaq desktops. Is their position on this survey justified?

Pretty much, yes. I've heard very few good reviews from Compaq users, and many more bad ones.

Raven wrote:What else do I need to get, like AC adapters and such? Do I need extra batteries? What are recommended anti-theft measures?

An AC adapter will come with your computer; you should only need an extra one if you're going to use it in more than one location and transporting the adapter would be a problem somehow. A good laptop bag would solve this problem; I'd reccomend investing in one of those.

Batteries -- most laptop batteries do fairly well at lasting between 3-5 hrs and even more at times, depending on the size of the screen. You shouldn't need an extra battery unless you're really planning on doing a lot of on-the-go work.

Anti-theft -- most machines have a little slot for a security cable, like this, that you can use to prevent it from being stolen while it's at your desk or whatever. They're fairly inexpensive, and if you're worried about theft, that's your best bet.

Raven wrote:

SeeingRed wrote:Are you willing to consider Apple machines? If so, let me know; I can provide reccomendations on those as well.

Yup. I've played around with some friends Macbooks. They're solid machines; they're also more expensive machines. The basic Macbook Pro costs $2000, for a 15" screen, T7x Merom, 1 GB RAM, and X1600. I'll also have to run Boot Camp to play most of my games. (I know WoW runs on Mac, but what about others?)
I won't positively rule out a Mac until I've tested its ergonomics more, but me being a switcher isn't likely at this point.

It is true that they are a bit more expensive, but not moreso than the Sony machines, and you will generally get a much better machine in terms of engineering, size, and weight vs other brands, as well as quality components and special features (motion sensor in the hard drive, gesture-based touchpad, remote, etc). And with that extra price comes the iLife suite, quite possibly the *best* bundled software in existance.

Comparing that Gateway you posted at $1900 to the $2000 MacBook Pro...

The Gateway has a 2" larger screen, a better GPU (7900 vs X1600), more RAM (2 GB vs 1), a memory card reader (honestly, who cares?).

The MacBook Pro has more hard drive space (80 GB vs 120 GB), a faster processor (2.16 GHz, a $180 upgrade on the Gateway), a built in camera and microphone, a motion sensor to protect the hard drive, a remote control, is a full 2.1 pounds lighter and a quarter to a half-inch thinner, and has a VASTLY better software bundle (iLife 06 vs Microsoft Works).

All other aspects are equal.


Now, that larger GPU, larger screen, and extra RAM means that the Gateway is a better deal in terms of pure performance. My point is not to say that the MacBook Pro is a better deal. But it is not that much more expensive, and when you factor in the price of an antivirus and firewall and all that the MacBook Pro actually is cheaper (then again, you need to get a copy of Windows XP for Boot Camp).

The premium on the MacBooks is not as big as that on the VAIOs, and you get superior build quality and better software for it. Just keep it under consideration There are other brands that'll get you more performance per buck if that is all you care about, of course.

Myself, I dove in and bought a MacBook (not Pro, couldn't afford it) and I love it (I'm content to turn down the settings on my games, and the Intel GMA 950 actually performs incredibly well for an integrated card, I play City of Heroes on it with most of the settings turned up).

If I was buying a non-Apple laptop? I'd stay away from anything Dell, I probably would avoid VAIO's for the high premium with few benefits, and not touch anything with the Acer name on it. And of course, get a Core 2.

If you have a local computer dealer that handles Acer, I would recommend giving them a try. Good performance and quality for a reasonable price. They don't let you go crazy customizing your laptop like some companies do, but they have several models that fit various laptop needs. For a mere $2,200 I bought a kickass gaming laptop and for an additional $300 more I bought a total warranty for 3 years. They have significantly cheaper models for less intensive needs. Quality is right up there and their widescreen displays are excellent.

My mom has a Dell and she rather likes it. Didn't pay a whole lot, has good quality for her needs (basically surfing, accounting, and other general clerical type applications) along with some accessories. Dell has reasonably good support and if you pay a little extra for the warranty they will send techs to your house to service the laptop if there is ever a problem.

Alyeska wrote:If you have a local computer dealer that handles Acer, I would recommend giving them a try. Good performance and quality for a reasonable price. They don't let you go crazy customizing your laptop like some companies do, but they have several models that fit various laptop needs. For a mere $2,200 I bought a kickass gaming laptop and for an additional $300 more I bought a total warranty for 3 years. They have significantly cheaper models for less intensive needs. Quality is right up there and their widescreen displays are excellent.

My mom has a Dell and she rather likes it. Didn't pay a whole lot, has good quality for her needs (basically surfing, accounting, and other general clerical type applications) along with some accessories. Dell has reasonably good support and if you pay a little extra for the warranty they will send techs to your house to service the laptop if there is ever a problem.

Dells are good for end users that don't need to do much beyond surfing the internet or usign office apps. But for anyone else, they're horrible pieces of shite. Especially when you consider they tend to use bizarre propietary components that don't always work properly if you ever need to install Windows, and upgrading anything can be a tremendous pain in the ass.

I don't know Raven's needs and I threw out the two Laptop manufacturers that I have some experience with. Laptops that cover a fairly wide range of needs.

Personal experiance with laptops

bigger isn't always better... a smaller screen with an external monitor is better then having to lug around a 17 or even 15.4" note book. also the larger screen really sucks the battery life.

Sony - over priced, luggable, get more bang for the buck with a different bang
Dell - Cheap, not low cost. poorly made. battery life is not great. If you buy this spend the extra $$ on the no questions asked warranty, you'll need it
Gateway - Solid notebooks, have had 2, a regular notebook and a tablet. decent battery life on both.
Apple - Solid laptops, have a few PPC, best battery life and in my experiance the best operating system. waiting for the core duo 2's to hit the mac book or the mac book pro to go 13.4". as for gaming, penny arcade love theirs...
IBM - used to be great haven't used a levono
averatec - pray you never need support, other wise they're ok.
toshiba - not as nice as they used to be, my last one was over weight and hot hot hot.
acer - good bang for the buck. but tech support tried to screw me out of $200

I would strongly suggest that you avoid the MacBook Pros...I've used them and worked with them a bit, and I hate to say it, but they are total, overrated crap. Extremely expensive machines that weigh too much, have terrible ergonomics, and that run too hot. Are they thin and elegant? Yes, but that alone does not make for a good computer IMO.

Lisa wrote:waiting for the core duo 2's to hit the mac book or the mac book pro to go 13.4".

Apple released Core 2 Duo MacBooks today.

RThurmont wrote:I would strongly suggest that you avoid the MacBook Pros...I've used them and worked with them a bit, and I hate to say it, but they are total, overrated crap. Extremely expensive machines that weigh too much, have terrible ergonomics, and that run too hot. Are they thin and elegant? Yes, but that alone does not make for a good computer IMO.

I own a PowerBook (which is the precursor to the MacBook Pro, different only in incremental specs and processor type). I haven't experienced any of the concerns you list -- my computer runs warm, but not significantly warmer than any other computer I've used (and, the Intel processors run cooler than the PPC that my machine has). at around 4.5 pounds, it's as light or lighter than most other computers of the same size (12'') that i've seen, and this is WITH a built-in optical drive (which many 12'' laptops don't have). Specs I've seen for the new 15 and 17'' MacBook Pros give a similar relative weight. Expense is a very subjective thing -- I've tried time and again to "customize" offerings from Dell and the like to be equivalent to what the MacBook Pro gives, and few come close for the same price, especially when you factor in things like size, weight and included software.

Dell's laptops are among the few out there that are worse than Apple in terms of product designs, although like Apple, Dell rocks at desktops (Apple is better at all in ones and small form factors, and Dell is better at traditional towers). The 12" PowerBook was a nice machine, and I don't have a problem with it (although my ThinkPad X41T can pwn it, weighing in at 3.5 lbs and offering tablet functionality). The new MacBook Pros, however, are, in my opinion, a lackluster rehash of what was, by 2006, a very dated laptop design, and they have a reputation for running hot (which you can correct by downloading an open source fan control app that makes your fan run faster, but then you comprimise battery life). The keyboard is poorly positioned, especially on the 17", the monitor hinge is really annoying, as its often hard to get an optimal viewing angle, and the reasoning behind wasting surface space on the 17" with speakers as opposed to a num pad is questionable, to say the least.

I seriously considered buying a MacBook Pro, and spent hours with them on site with my client, in electronics stores, and at the Apple-sponsored internet cafe at AIGA Gain in NYC, and ultimately rejected it for the above reasons.

However, OS X is wonderful, and have a very high regard for the Mac Mini (which I own) and the iMac, both of which are beautiful, extremely well designed computers. If you can live with Windows or Linux on your laptop, however, its worth it, to avoid being stuck with the Mac Book Pro (I also dislike the MacBook, especially the white one, but not as much).

If you dislike the MacBook, you are clearly insane. I'm typing from one now. Best computer I've ever had. I use it more than my desktop (sometimes I hook it up to my 20" display).

Did Apple ever correct the issue of MBPs overheating because they thought applying thermal paste was meant to be like a bukkake porno?

Alrighty, so I went to Best Buy yesterday to play around with their stuff, and I've narrowed my search down to 3 options.

1. Gateway NX860XL
- Core 2 7200
- Go 7900 GS
- 1920x1200 resolution
- $2214 (includes everything, shipping, taxes, rebates, etc.)

2. Toshiba Satellite P100-ST1071
- Core 2 5500
- Go 7600
- 1680x1050 resolution
- $2016

3. HP Pavilion dv9000t
- Core 2 5600
- Go 7600
- 1680x1050 resolution
- $1735

My major point of concern is the Go 7600. It may be good enough for now, but how future proof is it? Notebook GPUs are supposed to be next to impossible to service yourself.
The most aggravating thing about notebook computers is their lack of customizability - both in terms of OEM models and DIY. I'm not allowed to select a different video card without picking a completely different laptop model.

The Gateway is the most expensive, but has the better CPU, highest screen resolution, and of course, the 7900 GS. The CPU doesn't concern me too much, since most of my games are GPU more than CPU intensive, and the performance difference isn't too significant. The screen resolution is a big plus, since I have no problem viewing large resolution screens, even for extended periods of time. Lots of screen space is very nice when working or playing EVE (whose greatest system requirement is probably screen resolution...)

The Toshiba I'm told is a good, solid model. I didn't have a chance to try out this particular one in the store, but the keyboard on a different Toshiba felt fine to me. A good friend of mine swears by them.

The HP had the best keyboard out of all of them. The touchpad was also the best (as "best" as inherently awful godless satan touchpads can possibly be) I found it second only to - surprisingly - Sony's. I liked how you can disable the touchpad with a little button above it, which would make adding and removing a real mouse more convenient. The buttons make a somewhat annoying beep when pressed; I couldn't find some way to turn it off without reading the manual, but I can get used to it. The best thing about the HP is the instant $200 rebate, which makes it the cheapest of the three.

The two front runners are the Gateway and the HP. The Gateway has what I want - graphics and screen size.
The difference between a 7x00 and 5x00 Core 2 is about $100. The difference between a 7900 GS and 7600 is $100 or so (hard to tell exactly, since nobody sells notebook cards). The difference between UXGA and WSXGA is... $50 or $100 or so (I'm guessing). This makes the Gateway very price competitive versus the Toshiba (which is only $200 less) or the normally priced HP ($300 less).
However, HP's $200 discount and free shipping changes everything. The HP is now $500 cheaper than the Gateway, and I like the keyboard more. I can live with the slower CPU, and the loss of screen resolution is survivable. If not for the 7600 issue, the HP would be a no brainer.


So, anyone have a notebook with a Go 7600 in it?
I'm using World of Warcraft as a point to draw the line. I want to be able to run WoW at max or very nearly max settings at 1680x1050. According to benches I've seen, a 7600 running WoW at 1600x1200 with 4xAA, 8xAF averages 30 fps.
I'm fairly confident the 7600 will run BF2, HL:2, and CoD2 at acceptable settings.
But what about future games? What about hogs like Oblivion, if I decide to pick them up? How well can it run games I have my eye on, like FEAR or Warhammer? How well will it run in 2 or 3 years?

I'd personally recommend the Toshiba. It's the sturdiest build out of the option, and unlike the HPs it won't get overly warm. I own an HP myself, and it's got this annoying tendency of getting rather warm near the touchpad after a short period. Warmer than any laptop should, at least. As far as Gateway, well, their company's always been a bit substandard as far as manufacturing quality goes. Even if they have higher components.

If you dislike the MacBook, you are clearly insane. I'm typing from one now. Best computer I've ever had. I use it more than my desktop (sometimes I hook it up to my 20" display).

The black MacBook is reasonably good, but the white MacBook has had some quality control problems, in the form of flimsy touchpads that jam and have to be repaired with origami paper, and severe, disgusting discoloration on the surface where your wrists rest (I've seen similiar discoloration on the iBook).

I haven't heard any recent news about the thermal paste QC problem on the MacBook Pro, so I assume (hope?) they solved it, but I do know from experience that the 1G MacBookPros tend to run hot. I hate laptops that run hot. There is a third-party app that lets you adjust the fan speed to cool it off, but there goes your battery life...

I'm really hoping that Apple has fixed these problems with the new MacBook Pro that just came out, but I haven't had a chance to work with one of them yet (AFAIK, I don't think the laptops at AIGA were the new ones).

I've heard bad things about the power connector on Toshibas connected to the motherboard only by solder.

What about used laptop on ebay + new desktop? That's the route I went

250$ Thinkpad T22 + 50$ battery + 1200$ desktop (sans modern video card, I don't game).

Pu-239 wrote:I've heard bad things about the power connector on Toshibas connected to the motherboard only by solder.

My Toshiba is a little more than a year now and I've yet had problems with the motherboard. Although I did have a problem with my DVD drive registering in the bios but I had it easily replaced under warranty.

On the subject of warranty, Toshiba has excellent customer service as I've had so far and if you ever need to put it in for repair, you can take it to a local authorised repair center(if you have one) which was great since I didn't have to pay the shipping for the heavy bastard. Though watch out on where you go. I had it first taken to J&R and they tried to overcharge me $50 because they thought it was a software issue (software related problems aren't covered by warranty) so I took it somewhere else and had it back in two days.

I am having much the same thoughts as the OP, and I wonder if anyone can enlighten me with regards to the performance of the different GPU:s for laptops out there?

What's needed to play Gothic 3? Oblivion? M:TW2? Next-gen RTS/wargame? - assume 2GB ram.

Is a X1800 a good card? Which Gf card does it compare to?




Oh, and also - how does the Athlon 64 compare to the Core 2 Duo?

haard wrote:I am having much the same thoughts as the OP, and I wonder if anyone can enlighten me with regards to the performance of the different GPU:s for laptops out there?

What's needed to play Gothic 3? Oblivion? M:TW2? Next-gen RTS/wargame? - assume 2GB ram.

Depends on what kind of display you're using, and what kind of performance you want.

Is a X1800 a good card? Which Gf card does it compare to?

It's pretty solid. That link should provide you with performance specs for most modern ATI mobile video cards. Here's a comparable site for nVidia cards. You can see that, judging by fill-rate, the X1800 is about in the GO 7700 range, and not much worse than the GO 7800.

Oh, and also - how does the Athlon 64 compare to the Core 2 Duo?

The Core 2 Duo dominates Athlon 64 in all performance-related categories, especially in a mobile or semi-mobile environment.

RThurmont wrote:

If you dislike the MacBook, you are clearly insane. I'm typing from one now. Best computer I've ever had. I use it more than my desktop (sometimes I hook it up to my 20" display).

The black MacBook is reasonably good, but the white MacBook has had some quality control problems, in the form of flimsy touchpads that jam and have to be repaired with origami paper, and severe, disgusting discoloration on the surface where your wrists rest (I've seen similiar discoloration on the iBook).

I haven't heard any recent news about the thermal paste QC problem on the MacBook Pro, so I assume (hope?) they solved it, but I do know from experience that the 1G MacBookPros tend to run hot. I hate laptops that run hot. There is a third-party app that lets you adjust the fan speed to cool it off, but there goes your battery life...

I'm really hoping that Apple has fixed these problems with the new MacBook Pro that just came out, but I haven't had a chance to work with one of them yet (AFAIK, I don't think the laptops at AIGA were the new ones).

I can only assume these problems are rare, as my white MacBook is fine, as are all the demo units at CompUSA and all the ones owned by people I know. In fact, I've only seen people with problems on forums, and even then they are the minority.