So when does piracy become ethically justifiable?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-11-19 12:06am

Was talking with Anders a bit earlier, and he was telling me about how the latest PC games in australia go for about $120 USD after conversion from AUD to USD; which makes no sense; since there's no reason for airmail charges since a lot of them are printed and pressed in australia itself.

And of course, Piracy is HUUUUGE in Australia, as a result....

Post by **Gandalf** » 2006-11-19 12:11am

I don't go game shopping that often, but where in Australia does it cost that much?

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2006-11-19 12:11am

I don't know if it's ethical at ANY point, but I wouldn't pay $120 for a computer game unless it came with a pound of cocaine and a week of complimentary blow jobs.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-19 12:17am

Games sell for AU$100-110. That's what, US$70? It's more - we're DEFINATELY getting ripped off - but it's not US$120, which would be like TWO HUNDRED BUCKS.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2006-11-19 12:45am

Stark wrote:Games sell for AU$100-110. That's what, US$70? It's more - we're DEFINATELY getting ripped off - but it's not US$120, which would be like TWO HUNDRED BUCKS.

Okay, my bad for misunderstanding Ando.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-19 12:48am

Oh don't worry, everyone in AU with a net connection knows how much we get screwed. It's cheaper to buy a DS game from a HK importer and courier it to my house in three days than to buy that same game from the store.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-19 12:53am

Stark wrote:Oh don't worry, everyone in AU with a net connection knows how much we get screwed. It's cheaper to buy a DS game from a HK importer and courier it to my house in three days than to buy that same game from the store. :roll:

That's IF the game is ever fucking released here...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-19 12:56am

That's right - 80% of my DS games are Japan or US-only releases. Region-free is the best shit ever, and if the new consoles were all region-free I think EB stores would be closing left and right. I'd sure as fuck never pay AU premium prices for AU delayed releases sold by retards with musical tastes firmly stuck in the '1998 techno compilation' area.

Dendrobius · Post by **Dendrobius** » 2006-11-19 02:54am

Seconded on the DS games fiasco. I got Megaman ZX delivered virtually overnight to me from overseas to my door for $40AUD. Had I wandered down to the local EB or Gamewizards, I wouldn't even have been able to buy anything except maybe Nintendogs for $40AUD.

Megaman ZX didn't even get an AU release. Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin I'll be getting from overseas for sure. What I want to know is how they justify this huge premium? Sure ain't due solely to transport.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-19 05:25am

Well, with transport that's mainly a huge pile of BS. A *LOT* of games are manufactured, printed and boxed in Australia. And even with the ones that aren't, if OVER-FUCKING-NIGHT shipping for a single unit still brings it in below AU retail for someone purchasing then it damn sure isn't going to be more expensive to move it in bulk.

Why do we pay more? Because they can charge more. Its the only reason - they charge that amount because the majority of people are still willing to pay it.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-19 06:54am

why do I now feel like creating a MMO for free that involves looting, plundering, pillaging and otherwise destroying other people's merchant ships?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-11-19 07:46am

The Yosemite Bear wrote:why do I now feel like creating a MMO for free that involves looting, plundering, pillaging and otherwise destroying other people's merchant ships?

EVE Online is thataway.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-11-19 08:10am

Piracy is never ethically justified, nor, in my opinion, is discriminatory pricing that has no basis in the marginal costs of producing product. This is my major gripe with the media and pharmaceutical industries: they view profitability from the standpoint of sunk costs, and price to compensate for them, with the result being gross margins that could at best be described as outsized.

However, since two wrongs do not make a right, the high price of games does not justify piracy. It does, however, justify not purchasing new releases, instead forcing sellers to go through the agony of markdowns to clear unsold inventory, and it also justifies importation and purchasing while abroad, although sadly, DRM does in some cases make the latter quite difficult.

What content producers need to recognize is that piracy would stop if they tied their pricing into the marginal cost of distributing product. Volume would increase massively, thus offsetting the decay of gross margins, and at the same time, piracy would be more or less unneccessary for the bulk of consumers, and the added costs associated with DRM would become superfluous.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-19 08:14am

Unfortunately there's a whole industry dedicated to scaremongering publishers with the piracy boogeyman. Of course, when publishers spend money on copy protection, they can reduce their sales further, which tends to reinforce the need to make as much money/unit as possible instead of going for volume.

Starforce scaremongering in particular is quite insidious. They target smaller developers and publishers.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-19 08:26am

actaully DP I was thinking more along the lines of Rum, Women, and Wooden ships.

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2006-11-19 09:33am

Stark wrote:Starforce scaremongering in particular is quite insidious. They target smaller developers and publishers.

Anyone remember Starforce giving away Galciv2 torrent links just because it used no protection?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-19 09:39am

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-11-19 12:53pm

Ace Pace wrote:
Stark wrote:Starforce scaremongering in particular is quite insidious. They target smaller developers and publishers.
Anyone remember Starforce giving away Galciv2 torrent links just because it used no protection?

How did they not get the shit sued out of them for that?

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-11-19 12:55pm

I predict that PS3 piracy will be big next year, with Sony's price-gouging and retarded tactics against importers selling legitimate games and hardware (shutting down Lik-Sang and intimidating play-asia to name but two).
And while I have always disapproved of piracy, Sony deserve it more than anyone else.

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2006-11-19 01:28pm

RThurmont wrote: What content producers need to recognize is that piracy would stop if they tied their pricing into the marginal cost of distributing product. Volume would increase massively, thus offsetting the decay of gross margins, and at the same time, piracy would be more or less unneccessary for the bulk of consumers, and the added costs associated with DRM would become superfluous.

That, sadly, does not work.

While it can increase the volume if only one or two industry adopts it, the total market for media consumption is not so elastic. People only have finite time and low prices will not make them consume more.

On the other hand, the marginal costs of distributing an product is almost nothing. An $40 USD a month internet connection can filfull pretty much all consumer demand, and that frankly is not alot of money even if one flip it twice over.

An drop in prices for all media works would only result in a reduction in net revenues in the industry, with harmful effects on future production. Assuming fair competition, the producers are kept honest in their products in terms of total production costs and revenue.

Of course, the producers have been trying their best to distort the market to make sure fair competition don't happen, but that is a different story.

ThatGuyFromThatPlace · Post by **ThatGuyFromThatPlace** » 2006-11-19 02:06pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:actaully DP I was thinking more along the lines of Rum, Women, and Wooden ships.

Pirates of the Burning Sea
Sounds like the side effect of spending a night with a cheap hooker, but it looks promising.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-11-19 03:24pm

Well, this kind of shit is why I've become a big fan of Steam and eBay stores. Getting the shit on day of release of shortly afterwards at a rate which is pure exchange rate rather than marked up...

Still, piracy is fucking ingrained into the Australian gaming culture at a really basic level due to how fucked over we are on so many fronts.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-19 03:56pm

weemadando wrote:Well, this kind of shit is why I've become a big fan of Steam and eBay stores. Getting the shit on day of release of shortly afterwards at a rate which is pure exchange rate rather than marked up...

Still, piracy is fucking ingrained into the Australian gaming culture at a really basic level due to how fucked over we are on so many fronts.

not to mention the obvious jokes about your ancestors....

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-11-19 04:11pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote:
weemadando wrote:Well, this kind of shit is why I've become a big fan of Steam and eBay stores. Getting the shit on day of release of shortly afterwards at a rate which is pure exchange rate rather than marked up...

Still, piracy is fucking ingrained into the Australian gaming culture at a really basic level due to how fucked over we are on so many fronts.
not to mention the obvious jokes about your ancestors....

I'm sure that's a bootable offense...

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-11-19 09:34pm

Slashdot just posted a story about a draconian new anti-piracy law being rushed through the Australian legislative branch, which is rather apro-pos to this thread: http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/11/19/2214254.shtml. All I can say is: dang it I'm glad I don't live in Australia, although I really feel sorry for people who have to deal with this kind of garbage, and I really passionately hope it doesn't spread to the US.