FFVII Question

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-11-23 08:30pm

I don't own the game anymore and haven't had luck searching on FAQs, so I was wondering if I could be reminded of a plot point in Final Fantasy 7.

When Cloud and folks were heading back from the Train Yard after escaping Don Corneo's place, they proceed into Sector 7 and find, hey, Shinra is planning to blow up the Pillar. What exactly happened let AVALANCHE know that Shinra was planning to destroy the Pillar? Because I don't remember the exact mechanics of how AVALANCHE got wise to them and thus were present to go up the Pillar to try and stop them.

This is actually important to a story outline I was typing out for a fanfic I'm helping develop. I'm taking liberties with the story, of course, but I don't quite remember all the details about how it actually went since I haven't played it since I was in High School.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-11-23 08:33pm

I'm pretty sure Corneo et al simply TELLS them. With the testicle-crushing threats, who wouldn't?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-11-23 08:33pm

Don Corneo spills the beans when the three "girls" threaten to forcibly remove his manhood.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-11-23 08:35pm

Ah, that's a shitty way to move the plot along. Why would Don Corneo be privy to Shinra's business? Bah. Looks like I'm going to have to make up something less stupid. Thanks, this thread has served its purpose.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-11-23 08:42pm

I believe Corneo was contracted by Shinra to infiltrate Avalanche and ascertain their identities/location. What I know for certain is that his name came up when Barret caught a "suspicious-looking person" as they were escaping from the No. 5 Reactor.

Edit: Relevant quotes.

Tifa: When we got back from the Number 5 reactor, there was this weird man. So
Barret caught him and squeezed some information out of him.

Cloud: That's when the Don's name popped up.

Tifa: Right, Don Corneo. Barret told me to leave the lech alone... But
something's been bothering me.

Cloud: I see. So you wanted to get the story straight from Corneo's mouth.

Corneo: … I made 'em find out where the man with the gun-arm was. But that's
what I was ordered to do.

Tifa: By who?

Corneo: No--! If I told you that, I'd be killed!

Tifa: Talk! If you don't tell us…

Aerith: (left leg on Corneo’s bed) …I'll rip them off.

Corneo: Waaaaaaaaaaah--! It was Heidegger of Shinra! Heidegger, the head of
Public Safety Maintenance!

Cloud: The head of Public Safety Maintenance!?

Tifa: Did you say the Shinra!? What are they up to!? Talk! If you don't tell
us… (left leg on Corneo’s bed) I'll smash them.

Corneo: …You're serious, aren't you… …ohboy, ohboy, ohboy. …I'm not fooling
around here either, you know. Shinra's trying to crush a small rebel group
called AVALANCHE, and want to infiltrate their hideout. And they're really
going to crush them…literally, by breaking the support holding up the plate
above them.

Tifa: Break the support!?

Corneo: You know what's going to happen? The plate'll go PING and everything's
gonna go BAMMM!! I heard their hideout's in the Sector 7 Slums... I'm just glad
it's not here in Sector 6.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-11-23 08:49pm

I still have a problem with that. There still doesn't seem to be a good reason for Shinra to tell him what they are up to or any reason for Shinra to thinks that Don Corneo has any knowledge or contact with AVALANCHE anyway. I imagine someone in Shinra might have asked him what he knew after the first reactor blew, since he likely has his finger on the pulse of scum and villainy in this section of the Slums, but I can't imagine they'd let in someone who amounts to a sad little king of a sad little hill on such matters.

Ah well, I can make something up.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-11-23 08:53pm

President Shinra had a habit of frequenting the Bumblebee Inn bordello in Sector 6. In fact you can listen in on one of his.. odd sessions there.
It's possible that Corneo knew about this, and thus blackmailed Shinra into spilling the beans, just so he'd be sure the sky wouldn't be falling on his head or anything.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2006-11-23 11:34pm

Quick question: in FF7, all the magic was explained away as originating from materia and Mako energy and the alien Ancients, right? Well, where are the summons from?

Post by **RogueIce** » 2006-11-23 11:58pm

Gil Hamilton wrote:I still have a problem with that. There still doesn't seem to be a good reason for Shinra to tell him what they are up to or any reason for Shinra to thinks that Don Corneo has any knowledge or contact with AVALANCHE anyway. I imagine someone in Shinra might have asked him what he knew after the first reactor blew, since he likely has his finger on the pulse of scum and villainy in this section of the Slums, but I can't imagine they'd let in someone who amounts to a sad little king of a sad little hill on such matters.

Ah well, I can make something up.

Maybe they let it leak so they'd draw AVALANCHE out? Through some convulted means (Reno recognizing Cloud's materia eyes, Turk intel saying an ex-SOLDIER is in with AVALANCHE, said materia eyes guy with Aeris) they figured letting them know this information would get AVALANCHE to come out, and possibly bring Aeris along for the ride?

It's possible, I guess.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-11-24 12:15am

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Quick question: in FF7, all the magic was explained away as originating from materia and Mako energy and the alien Ancients, right? Well, where are the summons from?

You've got it all wrong. Mako is the stuff of the lifestream, which is basically like the Force from Star Wars. It's created by the planet's lifeforms, and in turn makes the planet habitable (it's not naturally). When an inhabitant of the planet passes away, their memories and experiences are returned to the lifestream. Materia is condensed and crystalized Mako. By using materia, one gains access to the knowledge possesed by people who lived long ago; so you can use magic without actually having to learn it (i.e., go through rigorous training and all that). Materia is simply a fast and novel way of achieving effects that have been around virtually forever.

Battlehymn Republic · Post by **Battlehymn Republic** » 2006-11-24 01:11am

Okay, well, the point of my question was, is magic in FFVII centering around a semi-mystic force (the lifestream), as opposed to "fantasy magic" which is usually very arbitrary and unexplained? And if so, then what are the summons explained as?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-11-24 01:17am

Battlehymn Republic wrote:Okay, well, the point of my question was, is magic in FFVII centering around a semi-mystic force (the lifestream), as opposed to "fantasy magic" which is usually very arbitrary and unexplained? And if so, then what are the summons explained as?

No, the magic itself remains completely unexplained, and barring unforseen contradictions we acquiesce to the explanations presented in other games. The materia is just a means to bypass the whole "go to mage school" thing.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-11-24 06:35am

Well, to nitpick, Mako is defined as Lifestream energy that has been processed and compressed in a reactor. Whatever that means. But essentially it becomes more potent at the expense of permanently removing it from the planet.
On summons, Materia seems to have the ability to record and store data in the form off magic and then lets people access it. I'd say it does the same for summons. The information of summons who existed in the past exists in the lifestream, it crystalizes into Materia form and is stored there.

Now, one theory could probably lead to the conclusion that the FFVII summons are produced from the memories of the Aeons in FFX after the people of Spira migrated to the FFVII planet.
But that's only if you believe Kazuhige Nojima.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-11-24 12:52pm

Destructionator XIII wrote:Also might have been that idiot, Heidegger, incompetently blabbing away, doubtlessly followed by a "gya ha ha". He never struck me as being very good at his job.

I can't help shake the image of him being our Deputy PM, John Prescott. It's scary.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-11-24 02:02pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Destructionator XIII wrote:Also might have been that idiot, Heidegger, incompetently blabbing away, doubtlessly followed by a "gya ha ha". He never struck me as being very good at his job.
I can't help shake the image of him being our Deputy PM, John Prescott. It's scary.

That's who he always reminded me of too.
Well. Him and Pavarotti.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-24 06:28pm

great now we get to add FFVII to the list of anti-bush, anti-american games.... Yeah Heddigar is like the white house cabinet everytime gas prices went up the last 6 years....

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-11-24 06:38pm

President Shinra and Rufus were actually competent though. That's the difference.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-11-24 06:46pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:President Shinra and Rufus were actually competent though. That's the difference.

President Shinra wasn't really that great; destroying an entire section of his own city to get rid of a terrorist group? Overkill much?
And Rufus, while he was decent enough the same couldn't be said for his underlings. Heidegger and Scarlet were morons, Hojo was insane and Reeve was a traitor.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-11-24 06:52pm

Nobody's perfect...

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-11-24 10:02pm

Rufus at least managed to put one over on Kadaj. But then Kadaj was a twit.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-11-25 12:07am

Vendetta wrote:Rufus at least managed to put one over on Kadaj. But then Kadaj was a twit.

Putting one over on that Super Powered Marylin Manson is like beating a parapelegic in a footrace.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-11-25 12:15am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:President Shinra and Rufus were actually competent though. That's the difference.

Didn't Shinra show up, in person, soley to taunt Avalanche in the section reactor you attack and launch a killer robot? That could have went horribly wrong for him and beside, you'd think the de facto ruler of the world would have people for that sort of thing.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-11-25 03:35am

yeah but the real moral is that Necrophilia is bad, very bad. Especially when your fucking a 100,000,000year old cloned corpse.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-11-25 07:11am

Gil Hamilton wrote: Didn't Shinra show up, in person, soley to taunt Avalanche in the section reactor you attack and launch a killer robot? That could have went horribly wrong for him and beside, you'd think the de facto ruler of the world would have people for that sort of thing.

No, any decent evil overlord knows that the personal touch is important when it comes to gloating about the heroes' imminent demise. It's a question of class.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-11-25 08:38am

Right, what's the point of being the Evil Emperor when you can't indulge in the Stereotypical Villain Bullshit? What's he supposed to do, actually run his self-running government-company? It's clear that old man Shinra was just bored.