StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I've started running a Classic Battletech Campaign consisting of myself as the opposing force and a group of four guys as part of the invasion. The era of this campaign is around 3026. My biggest problem is what to do about repairs and resupply. I've found that a lot of the books on running campaigns are really awkward and particularly useful. Right now I've made up some house rules that my players can used salvaged armor (two times the armor repairs a single internal structure point) and ammunition for their own use, but things such as lost limbs and 'Mech actuators can not be repaired without replacement parts. Is this a good plan? I'm open to suggestions and comments as I'm pretty new to the concept of running a table top game for a long term.

Maximum tech has some decent rules for jury-rigging (at least my gaming group found they worked good, I have heard complaints though) and for salvaging, but Btech campaigns need house rules very badly. Pick up a few other sourcebooks and just make up rules out of what they got.
In universe I don't recall any reason other than aesthetics that you can't bolt another arm onto a mech, as long as said arm isn't too heavy for the mech. The jury-rigging abilites of good engineers seems legendary, and thus mechs coming out of campaigns with half a dozen kitbashed upgrades doens't seem unusual at all.

The fun part occurs when you have different masses of Mechs, and you are trying to mate legs with the different types.

The smart player will make it easy on his techs: 1-2 types of Mech, and 4-5 types of weapons. Preferably missiles for ammo based due to ammo, as LRM-5 and LRM-20 both have 120 missile per ton of ammo.

Still, I'd just go through a list, and if they want to keep track of components, have a cash value of the components for each type. I.e. half a million C-Bills worth of actuators, a quarter million in Internal Structure standard, 3/4 million in Endo-steel, etc. Damaged items might have 1/4 their value, while intact systems are worth their base value. This becomes your spare parts stores.

You then say that the multiplier (all Mechs have that 1+ Mech tonnage/100 multiplier) is reflecting the effort/materials needed to install the components. The raw price is what you pay to buy the equipment, the multiplier is to install it. To increase the multiplier pool, you salvage items from your spare parts stores, at 1/4 the value. So a 4 million C-Bill item gets damaged. It is now worth 1 million. Transferred to the multiplier stores (essentially your techs trading for repair equipment) adds 250,000 C-Bills.

For aded fun, you make rolls to see if the techs were successfull in installing stuff, and how long. A green tech might take 8 hours to install something, while an elite tech might take 5-6 hours. Astechs (assistant techs, essentially extra pairs of hands) will reduce both of these figures.

Supplies can be ordered, but it will take time to get there, and the order has to make it through any enemy defenses. There is even a chance that they screwed up the order (you need AC-10 ammo, and they sent AC-2 ammo), or pirates intercept the order en-route (even if intercepted, you are still out the funds).

Your players will soon learn the value of retreating with only armor damage, picking their shots to save enemy Mechs for salvage, and sending in troops to steal enemy supplies.

This is a bit complex/detailed, so using a raw battle value like (IIRC) Maximum Tech does could be useful (where everybody gets a fixed amount of BV, and allocate it to Mechs, repairs, espionage, and a 'general' pool).

What's wrong with the rules in the BMR?

GuppyShark wrote:What's wrong with the rules in the BMR?

The what?

Thanks for your input, Coalition and Dark Hellion. I think I'll go for something simpler than a parts buying system with C-bills. Right now their objective is leading into a defensive position and I will most likely randomize the time it takes for supplies to come in so that I may launch raiding parties against them to keep things interesting.

One thing I have problems with the standard rules for repairs as seen in the Battletech Compendium is that all the repair times are listing in minutes without any reference to game time in turns. I'd really like to come up with a good system for in-fight repairing if my players managed to disengage and return to their dropship.

Also, I've been toying around with the idea of water based 'Mech transports. Basically a big barge for quickly transporting 'Mechs over water. There's no real special rules outside of the cargo-carriers section on what can and can't be carried by another vehicle correct?

The BattleTech Master Rules.

VF5SS wrote:Thanks for your input, Coalition and Dark Hellion. I think I'll go for something simpler than a parts buying system with C-bills. Right now their objective is leading into a defensive position and I will most likely randomize the time it takes for supplies to come in so that I may launch raiding parties against them to keep things interesting.

Just make sure the players know about the raid potential, and give them the opportunity to do the same to you.

VF5SS wrote:One thing I have problems with the standard rules for repairs as seen in the Battletech Compendium is that all the repair times are listing in minutes without any reference to game time in turns. I'd really like to come up with a good system for in-fight repairing if my players managed to disengage and return to their dropship.

BTech turns are IIRC, 10 seconds long. So a 15 minute armor repair job will take 90 BTech turns.

VF5SS wrote:Also, I've been toying around with the idea of water based 'Mech transports. Basically a big barge for quickly transporting 'Mechs over water. There's no real special rules outside of the cargo-carriers section on what can and can't be carried by another vehicle correct?

There is a Support Vehicles Book that details how to build all sorts of vehicles, from various technology levels, to humongous sizes. One of the ships in the recent Lyran Sourcebook is a Battleship. 60,000 tons, surface combatant.

Or just go with current cargo ships, look up a model, and use that tonnage, speed, etc. You can get into some nice piloting rolls for the Mechs, when they are trying to walk a 50 ton mech across a barge that is designed to carry up to 200 tons. Center of gravity shift, anyone? Capsizing risk? Now attack the barge with a fighter, trying to shoot the barge. If the fighter makes too many passes, the barge has holes in it. The mechs can walk to safety, but anything else better be watertight, or swimmable.

Coalition wrote:
Just make sure the players know about the raid potential, and give them the opportunity to do the same to you.

I believe they're smart enough to secure a base and defend it. The fact they are now shorthanded should make it interesting. Right now they're down a 'Mech (a Shadow Hawk lost to an errant Catapult explosion) and their Phoenix Hawk has a gimp leg. Also their Hatchetman is merely a -Man now. I'm not going to hit them with anything they can't handle. Maybe some Javelins and Jenners.

BTech turns are IIRC, 10 seconds long. So a 15 minute armor repair job will take 90 BTech turns.

Wow, that's crazy long.

Or just go with current cargo ships, look up a model, and use that tonnage, speed, etc. You can get into some nice piloting rolls for the Mechs, when they are trying to walk a 50 ton mech across a barge that is designed to carry up to 200 tons. Center of gravity shift, anyone? Capsizing risk? Now attack the barge with a fighter, trying to shoot the barge. If the fighter makes too many passes, the barge has holes in it. The mechs can walk to safety, but anything else better be watertight, or swimmable.

I actually made up a couple cargo ships that seem pretty good. Basically a heavily armored transport with good water speed. My idea is to use these ships as both a means to attack the players and a way for them to receive assistance or transport themselves on mission. Perhaps adapting DFA rules for landing on a barge. Funny you should mention fighters, since my players have a Thrush at their disposal.

Right now I'm trying to figure out the weight of an individual Battlemech limb. The Master Rules gives a way to figure out their cost in C-Bills, but not in tonnage. Say I want to find out the weight of a HCT-3F Hatchetman's arm including all the actuators, weapons, and armor. Is there any set tonnage of Internal Structure, Armor,and actuators?

You can get the weight of the Internal Structure (which includes actuators) and Armour by reversing the initial equation.

The only problem is you can sometimes get some silly results since Internal Structure and Armour weights are lower than seems right.

I did do a calculation using the total armor tonnage of the arm and the total internal structure tonnage of the arm and got about 1.7 tons for one arm sans weapons. Seems kinda off.

Time for my shameless plug. See my sig.

I personally plan on making repair simple as hell, just multiply the total mech cost by some percentage of the total C-Bill cost, maybe ten percent, for a complete repair. So sue me. Salvage will be similarly simple. I'll only make it more complicated if I have to. I've got more important things to worry about, like trying to figure out how to make good looking maps, and getting the basic mechanics working on OpenRPG, and designing nodes for character and mech generation.

Wow, thanks for your ultimate super contribution to this discussion!

VF5SS wrote:Wow, thanks for your ultimate super contribution to this discussion!

What? It was a good contribution, more than some others who have posted one liners saying "Look at BMR" kind of like "Look on Google" or "Look on Wiki." If you didn't flame them, why do you flame me .

I have nothing against making salvage or repair rules more complex, FYI.

VF5SS wrote:I did do a calculation using the total armor tonnage of the arm and the total internal structure tonnage of the arm and got about 1.7 tons for one arm sans weapons. Seems kinda off.

Yep. This is because internal structure only accounts for 10% of the mass and armour isn't very heavy. Most of the tonnage on a BattleMech is devoted to its power plant and weapons.

But still, that's your official tonnage. You're going to have to house rule it if you don't like the results.

Hell, I always wanted to implement revised movement speeds for BattleMechs that had lost weapons-laden arm systems. Less mass to move around should mean a faster speed, right?

brianeyci wrote: If you didn't flame them, why do you flame me :P.

Because I don't like Atlases.

GuppyShark wrote: Yep. This is because internal structure only accounts for 10% of the mass and armour isn't very heavy. Most of the tonnage on a BattleMech is devoted to its power plant and weapons.

The fun part is if you start wondering where the mass for the actuators comes from? Is it part of the Internal Structure, or the engine. IMHO it is part of engine tonnage, as you need bigger myomers to handle the strain from higher speeds.

GuppyShark wrote: Hell, I always wanted to implement revised movement speeds for BattleMechs that had lost weapons-laden arm systems. Less mass to move around should mean a faster speed, right? :P

This would only come into play with the lighter Mechs, where they have enough speed to receive the benefit from tonnage loss. From there, you can use the low-grav rules, that give piloting penalties for moving faster than the Mech's top speed.

Still, I'm not sure exactly how, but make a quick and eay way to analyze salvage, repair, etc, so your players can get to the fighting. Most gamers are like WH40k Orks, where if they are not in a fight, or getting ready, they are bored. Hopefully you have a few storytellers to keep them entertained while you go over the sheets. Maybe a chart, with tonnages across the side, components along the top, and times at the intercepts would help to determine repair availability? After that, tell them how much time they have, and what can be repaired. From that, they can make their plans (make yours in advance to avoid spoiling their surprises).

Nothing says fun like the enemy only taking armor damage to their mechs, while focussing fire to get to your internal structure on 1-2 Mechs. Then the enemy retires to repair armor damage (~90 minutes) and reload (~15 minutes), while you are looking at engine and/or gyro damage (~180 minutes). Your next fight you are 1-2 Mechs down, and his are at full strength.

Coalition wrote:The fun part is if you start wondering where the mass for the actuators comes from? Is it part of the Internal Structure, or the engine. IMHO it is part of engine tonnage, as you need bigger myomers to handle the strain from higher speeds.

I like that rationale. That works pretty well. So you'd have to break down the engine tonnage by region to get a more accurate limb weight.

Coalition wrote:This would only come into play with the lighter Mechs, where they have enough speed to receive the benefit from tonnage loss. From there, you can use the low-grav rules, that give piloting penalties for moving faster than the Mech's top speed.

I think I once calculated that a Marauder that lost its arm weapons could get one or two extra MP. You're looking at 7 tons per PPC. Maybe I was counting the right torso loss as well, with the AC?

GuppyShark wrote:

Coalition wrote:This would only come into play with the lighter Mechs, where they have enough speed to receive the benefit from tonnage loss. From there, you can use the low-grav rules, that give piloting penalties for moving faster than the Mech's top speed.

I think I once calculated that a Marauder that lost its arm weapons could get one or two extra MP. You're looking at 7 tons per PPC. Maybe I was counting the right torso loss as well, with the AC?

With a 300 rating engine, you need to lose fifteen tons off of a Marauder to get an extra MP, blowing off the arms easily qualifies for such. Losing ten more gets you another MP, so losing the AC will pretty much do for that. After that, you need to lose 7.2 tons, which you'll be lucky to do while keeping the mech on its feet without a complicated algorithm to see how that engine weight distributes.