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I might be joining an Elf-centric campaign set in Eberron and I was hoping to get some advice in building an Elf archer. I was thinking of going Cleric/Artificer, though I'm not sure that's the best combination. We're probably going to be around 3rd level, 4d6s drop the lowest.

I'm looking, in particular, for advice regarding spells and appropriate feats.

The obvious one for a cleric archer is Zen Archery, so you use Wis instead of Dex for ranged attack modifiers. Other than that, I'm not really familiar with Eberron or totally comfortable with the changes between 3.0 and 3.5, so my advice would be iffy at best.

Pfft. Fuck rangers or clerics. If you're gonna be an archer, go scout with decent int and then take all the initiative boosting feats you can get your grubby hands on and watch as you start getting 26+ initiatives each enounter. Or take point black and shoot on the move and then you can get all the AC and damage bonuses scouts while getting into <30ft distance, then running back for cover. Plus all those skill points you get means you can hide and move slitently like a madman.

But, seriously, I'd just go with support spells. Things that make you better able to hide, heal or hit things, not necessarially anything to damage. Though, a ranged cleric is a highly amusing idea.

Zen Archery sounds fantastic!

And I like the sound of the Scout class, but I think I'm limited to PHB, and Eberron base classes.

Crom wrote:Zen Archery sounds fantastic!

And I like the sound of the Scout class, but I think I'm limited to PHB, and Eberron base classes.

Oh. Well, in that case it depends on what you want to play as. If you're looking for ranged fighting just be a ranger or a druid. You get spiffy aim/hiding spells and some minor healing. But, yeah, if you're sticking with the cleric idea then definently get Zen Archery. That'll help out big time, especially if you don't mind armor check penalties too much.

But, yeah, the Scout class is fun to play as, especially with those skill points.

Here is a thread on archers, here is a thread on cleric builds, and here is where you can just ask for someone to help you and they will answer.

Just remember that the character overclocker forum will be hellbent on getting the most out of your character without considering reality.

Next is a bit of power play advice (so ignore if you have a RP idea about the combination you suggested).

Go full artificer, this class is even more level dependent then your normal spellcaster, you can fake most of the cleric. It is going to cost you in money though in. Instead of spells use scrolls you made yourself.
Once you get to the point where you can make wands the fun starts. Craft your own eternal wands for healing. Craft normal wands with wizards spells for ranged attacks.

Erik von Nein wrote:Pfft. Fuck rangers or clerics. If you're gonna be an archer, go scout with decent int and then take all the initiative boosting feats you can get your grubby hands on and watch as you start getting 26+ initiatives each enounter.

I don't have my CAdv book with me, but I believe that Scouts only get Simple Weapon Proficiency. Being an archer is already pretty feat intensive without having to burn one to use a bow.

Cleric/Artificer is a poor choice for an archer. Neither class does much to improve archery and multiclassing spellcasters is just a bad idea in general. I'm sure you could make a decent archer with either one provided a little care in using your magic (I know cleric has some nice self buffs), but taking both dilutes their effectiveness.

Is your game centered on Valenar or Aerenal? How's your prestige class access?

houser2112 wrote:

Erik von Nein wrote:Pfft. Fuck rangers or clerics. If you're gonna be an archer, go scout with decent int and then take all the initiative boosting feats you can get your grubby hands on and watch as you start getting 26+ initiatives each enounter.

I don't have my CAdv book with me, but I believe that Scouts only get Simple Weapon Proficiency. Being an archer is already pretty feat intensive without having to burn one to use a bow.

I've got it. Scouts get shortbow proficiency as a specific weapon, but not longbows (but then he's an elf anyway).

I propose instead you play a Paladin of Tyranny who worships Zarus, those damnable elves deserve it!

General Schatten wrote:I propose instead you play a Paladin of Tyranny who worships Zarus, those damnable elves deserve it!

That's one awesome evil deity! I don't care much for elves myself, but the DM wanted to run an Elf-centric game ... so assuming I get in I'm willing to help him out.

Raxmei wrote:Cleric/Artificer is a poor choice for an archer. Neither class does much to improve archery and multiclassing spellcasters is just a bad idea in general. I'm sure you could make a decent archer with either one provided a little care in using your magic (I know cleric has some nice self buffs), but taking both dilutes their effectiveness.

Is your game centered on Valenar or Aerenal? How's your prestige class access?

I think the game is centered somewhere in Southern Khorvaire, though we are playing a party of Elves dispatched from Aerenal. We're probably, assuming we get a few sessions out of this campaign, going to work our way up into Northern Khorvaire. Prestige Classes are probably limited to the DMG, the Eberron Campaign Guide, and the 5 Nations book.

Rawtooth wrote:Here is a thread on archers, here is a thread on cleric builds, and here is where you can just ask for someone to help you and they will answer.

That's so awesome. Thanks for the links!

Velthuijsen wrote:Just remember that the character overclocker forum will be hellbent on getting the most out of your character without considering reality.

Next is a bit of power play advice (so ignore if you have a RP idea about the combination you suggested).

Go full artificer, this class is even more level dependent then your normal spellcaster, you can fake most of the cleric. It is going to cost you in money though in. Instead of spells use scrolls you made yourself.
Once you get to the point where you can make wands the fun starts. Craft your own eternal wands for healing. Craft normal wands with wizards spells for ranged attacks.

Wow. I didn't realize Artificers were so great at emulating spell-casters. I was just going to use Artificer to build magical arrows and bows and such.

Crom wrote:Wow. I didn't realize Artificers were so great at emulating spell-casters. I was just going to use Artificer to build magical arrows and bows and such.

The main skill of an artificer is "use magic device". An artificer needs it to craft items (by emulating requirements) so why not go all the way and use the items.

The down side it costs money And until you get the drain magic from item skill you have a limited craft pool as well (so you can easily end up burning XP to stay competitive).

That said if you are going for an artificer get a DMG and start reading up on magic items (p. 216+) and creating magic items (p. 282-288).
And know the limitations of "use magic device". You need a few tricks up your sleeve to make maximum use out of it. For the first few levels you will likely be using your crossbow more then your crafted spells/items due to having a decent failure rate. Having to throw 10+ on the dice for the first few levels when using UMD isn't unusual. After that static UMD requirements (except for scroll use) will make it easier.

Your main stats are intelligence and charisma , which can very well get you selected as talker of the group but you have a wizards skill selection and the skills that help with talking are missing from your skill list. Yet another thing is that you can do find and disable traps so you might want to talk with the player who is going to play a rogue about division of labor.

Elven artificers can make suprisingly good archers at low levels. What they lack in attack bonus they can make up for with their ability to give their weapon the Bane quality against any type of foe you encounter. Obviously at higher levels you'll lack the feats to stay competitive and will probably want to swap your bow for a wand, bt such is the way of the artificer.

Just out of interest are you playing Valenar or Aerani elves? If your Valenar Ranger might be a more flavourful class plotwise, though they're more famous for close combat rangers (the Revenant Blade prestige class in the Eberron players guide is horrificly nasty and basically superior to a equivilent levels as a fighter in every concievable way).

Otherwise if you just want to be a pure archer the fighter is probably the easiest way to make that happen, since archery really requires a lot of feats to be effective. That said I've always been tempted to try a psychic warrior archer, as from memory there are several quite nice psionic feats that enhance archery.