StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I'm about to go downtown and snag this.

The problem is I don't know anything about computers, and I'm wondering whether the 333 is backwards compatible with the 266. The lady said yes, and so did my brother, but since I'm buying it cheap there's no refund policy, only exchange, and I don't know how to check it besides bring my laptop down there and try it out (which I intend to.) Also I can't seem to buy anything higher than 512 from sites which guarantee the ram works with NC4000, so is there some kind of limit for each slot?

Another problem is I don't know how much RAM my laptop supports. I'd like to max it out, and there's two slots, so if I could get two gigs that'd be wonderful. Except is there a maximum limit for my motherboard? It's an HP NC4000 and some sites say there are, but not the HP sites.

Also if anybody knows of some fast program that can check the ram while I'm down there, that'd be great too. Without a startup disk, because this doesn't have a floppy or CD drive and can't boot off USB.

Download http://www.gtopala.com/ SIW from this website and run it. No installation required. Click on the motherboard tab in the program, and it will give you information on your motherboard's maximum capacity. Click on the memory type, and it will give you info on your memory as well. That should hopefully give you enough to go by to tell what you need to get.

brianeyci wrote:I'm about to go downtown and snag this.

The problem is I don't know anything about computers, and I'm wondering whether the 333 is backwards compatible with the 266. The lady said yes, and so did my brother, but since I'm buying it cheap there's no refund policy, only exchange, and I don't know how to check it besides bring my laptop down there and try it out (which I intend to.) Also I can't seem to buy anything higher than 512 from sites which guarantee the ram works with NC4000, so is there some kind of limit for each slot?

Another problem is I don't know how much RAM my laptop supports. I'd like to max it out, and there's two slots, so if I could get two gigs that'd be wonderful. Except is there a maximum limit for my motherboard? It's an HP NC4000 and some sites say there are, but not the HP sites.

Also if anybody knows of some fast program that can check the ram while I'm down there, that'd be great too. Without a startup disk, because this doesn't have a floppy or CD drive and can't boot off USB.

Unless it's a completely different type (like DDR2 as opposed to DDR), then RAM can nearly always (with rare exception) run at slower speeds than its maximum; in mixed-memory configurations, which exist and work, all memory simply runs at the speed of the slowest module.

Generally the limit of memory which a motherboard can support is defined by the limit of memory each slot on the motherboard will support, which can vary. This HP website appears to indicate that your computer will only accept up to a total of 1GB of RAM.

Despite its name, CPU-Z will also tell you precisely what is currently in your system with regard to memory.

Bought it. The experience was less than fun.

Went downtown to computer junkland. Right beside the chinatown, over twenty shops all run by independent owners who want to make a fast buck. I went to the largest store first, and they were out of the 512 despite the lady on the phone saying they had some. Then I went store to store hunting for a piece of ram.

There was one guy. "Hey, are you a technician?" Me: "No, not really." "Okay let me teach you stuff. It's going to be hard to find this kind of ram, pc2100. Blah blah blah. One gig? Four hundred bucks."

I tried not to laugh and left in a hurry. Went to the store next door, and the guy had it. Seventy nine bucks, plus tax, came out to ninety bucks, for an outdated piece of shit that should've cost 60. Fucking ripoff, but I was too lazy to shop around and way too fucking lazy to haggle, plus nearly late for work. I knew he wanted to--he said, probably twenty-nine bucks to install the ram for me, and he wanted me to leave the computer with him to install the second piece of ram. In the end I just bought the 512, after testing it out and making sure it worked.

Now I have to make sure I got genuine Kingston product, because I've actually bought counterfeit USB pens which fail after a couple writes. I hope this RAM isn't fake. Because I mentioned my experience with the fake USB pen to the guy, and he said he knew the guy who took off. Well gee, nice friends you have there.

I have no idea how to install the second piece of ram. The first 256 - 512 was easy to install, and there's no easily unscrewable slot for the second. It's probably deep inside somewhere, but I want to do it myself. There's special screws, but I'll see if the HP dealer could install it for me, rather than some independent guy I don't know.

Buying computer parts is worse than going to the doctor for me, since I don't know anything about computers. At least with a doctor you know your symptoms. With a computer, I don't really know all the technical details, and could easily get ripped off. I don't know the difference between ECC and non-ECC RAM. Is PC2700 backwards compatible with PC2100? According to some, yes, according to others, no. Can I stick a 1 gig RAM into a slot for 512? Maybe, try it. The guy who told me 400 bucks was the worst. I feel like going over there and throwing a rock at his window .

Anyway now off to try my new RAM with some memory intensive game, and see if it works. So far so good, I'm calling Kingston on Monday, and if it ends up being a fake I'm blackmailing the guy. The fucker. I half don't want to buy any computer parts from asians again, just because of all the counterfeits, but I know they have the cheapest shit. The next time I'm buying a computer part, I'm bringing my brother.

The second RAM slot is almost certainly under the keyboard. PC2700 should be backwards compatible, but some computers will note that it's not exactly the speed they ask for, and barf and die.

brianeyci wrote:<snip horrible buying experience>

A question. Why do you buy expensive (defined for me as anything over 20$) computer parts from no name small computer (?) shop with questionable ability or willingness to honor any warranty if even giving any? For that kind of stuff it is highly recommendable to go to either an specialist shop with a good reputation, a technical megastore, or the tech section at a mall, in order of decreasing preference. Anything else is simply gambling, and we all know how gambling ends up sooner or later. It really is not worth it for the 20% off you're going to get tops, which your USB stick experience really should have taught you.

Still, there has to be a lot of suckers on this earth or those shops would have closed up years ago...

Because I like keeping money in the local economy.

Besides, if you want a good computer, defined as me over one thousand dollars, there's no option but to go to small no name computer stores. I don't know much about computers but I know that at least. It's no problem if you bring someone knowlegeable about computers.

It's also not very helpful that I'm slow witted and have a blank face, and get missing seconds due to a medical condition. If you ever talk to me it'll seem like I'm a fucking retard.

brianeyci wrote:Because I like keeping money in the local economy.

Besides, if you want a good computer, defined as me over one thousand dollars, there's no option but to go to small no name computer stores. I don't know much about computers but I know that at least. It's no problem if you bring someone knowlegeable about computers.

It's also not very helpful that I'm slow witted and have a blank face, and get missing seconds due to a medical condition. If you ever talk to me it'll seem like I'm a fucking retard.

You can online to places like Newegg and Tigerdirect to get a decent machine for well under $1,000. "Decent" can also be very subjective, depending on what you're wanting a machine to do. For the most part though, a good bargain is relatively easy to find if you know where to look.

See, but that means you have to assemble it yourself, and not only that, but know something about computers.

Obviously those independent stores exist for a reason. It's for people who don't want to assemble computers themselves, but who know enough so they don't get ripped off. Maybe next time I'll post pictures of the place... literally 20 stores side by side, all doing the same thing, and somehow they make enough to at least break even. I don't think everybody who goes to independent computer stores is a moron. Money isn't the only consideration. You could build a personal relationship with a store owner if you bought a lot of computer parts, like my brother has. I don't know anything about cars either, but it seems like the risk you take finding a good independent auto mechanic... you could go to a big store with a guarantee, or someone you trust.

I usually buy shit without warranty. My mother bought a printer for us, and the Best Buy people conned her into a two year warranty for half the printer price. What a fucking gip. Manufacturers should provide warranty, not stores in my opinion, and if a small store sells too little shit to absorb the cost of free warranty, I'm not holding it against them. Small business for the win.

brianeyci wrote:See, but that means you have to assemble it yourself, and not only that, but know something about computers.

No you don't. Newegg sells prebuilt machines, and for budget boxes you can often get them cheaper from a company like Newegg or even Dell than from your local shop. It's the midrange machines with graphics card disproportionate to their CPU's that you enjoy a price advantage by building your own (or if you want premium/overclocking components).

Don't you have specialty stores? By that I mean stores somewhat larger then the mentioned desk-and-a-few-shelves that deal with solely computers and consumer electronics, have knowledgeable personnel and so on? Something a bit more solid, that isn't always in a balancing act for its life and can leave you standing with an useless warranty?

And I'm not talking about the tech. megastore stuff which sells Dells and such, but a much more enthusiasts and professionals oriented stores. Anyone with a clue shops for computers at those kinds of places since they usually have top notch support if something gets fucked up (the one I use most of the time is owned by a couple CS engineers, and is staffed by CS students and dropouts), you can talk to the staff intelligently about what you require without fear that they will attempt to rip you off (since that would destroy their reputation faster then anything), and they usually offer free assembly and delivery under the explanation that both sides in the transaction know that it isn't much work but on the other hand they don't have to worry about supporting someone who fucked up assembly.

It surprises me that, going by your reaction, you only have the "owner went into IT supplies because he heard it was a booming buisness" small stores on the one hand and Dell & similar prebuilt stuff on the other. Who caters to the enthusiasts and professionals? Only online only stuff like Newegg? Nothing brick and mortar?

The Kernel wrote:

brianeyci wrote:See, but that means you have to assemble it yourself, and not only that, but know something about computers.

No you don't. Newegg sells prebuilt machines, and for budget boxes you can often get them cheaper from a company like Newegg or even Dell than from your local shop. It's the midrange machines with graphics card disproportionate to their CPU's that you enjoy a price advantage by building your own (or if you want premium/overclocking components).

Many websites also offer options to let you configure a machine with the specs of your choice and they'll assemble it for as a complimentary service of sorts. Asking someone who's knowledgable about computers makes it easier if you don't know enough about them yourself.

mmar wrote:Don't you have specialty stores? By that I mean stores somewhat larger then the mentioned desk-and-a-few-shelves that deal with solely computers and consumer electronics, have knowledgeable personnel and so on? Something a bit more solid, that isn't always in a balancing act for its life and can leave you standing with an useless warranty?

I don't know what you mean by a specialty store. The fake USB pen was bought by a specialty notebook computer store. If a store deals only in computers, it's more specialized than a store which deals in more than that. I mentioned the "big" store I went to, and it had seven employees in uniforms. As for warranty, that's usually from the manufacturer, and even factory direct stores have warranty. You think this kind of store can't sell fakes, especially for small shit like USB pens? You don't know how bad counterfeiting is then, and I'm an easy "mark" since I appear to be a dimwit. I've been ripped off a whole case of water in a largeass supermarket before, don't tell me it's impossible just because the store's "large" and has a reputation to protect. Ripping off isn't just about selling counterfeits either, it can be selling the guy something he doesn't need, or not being entirely honest. Future Shop and Best Buy have ripped me off.

And I'm not talking about the tech. megastore stuff which sells Dells and such, but a much more enthusiasts and professionals oriented stores. Anyone with a clue shops for computers at those kinds of places since they usually have top notch support if something gets fucked up (the one I use most of the time is owned by a couple CS engineers, and is staffed by CS students and dropouts), you can talk to the staff intelligently about what you require without fear that they will attempt to rip you off (since that would destroy their reputation faster then anything), and they usually offer free assembly and delivery under the explanation that both sides in the transaction know that it isn't much work but on the other hand they don't have to worry about supporting someone who fucked up assembly.

This is the kind of store I went to. What do you think I meant? A store with one guy? All of those stores had four guys or more, mostly looking like students fresh out with a computer engineering degree. I don't really know what you mean. The fear of being ripped off is because I was before, and not some kind of regular experience. Also probably paranoia. Not like I buy computer parts all the time.

It surprises me that, going by your reaction, you only have the "owner went into IT supplies because he heard it was a booming buisness" small stores on the one hand and Dell & similar prebuilt stuff on the other. Who caters to the enthusiasts and professionals? Only online only stuff like Newegg? Nothing brick and mortar?

Who said that? You need to see pictures of those stores, they're all computer stores staffed by the kind of guys you're mentioning. Just that this time I was looking for an outdated piece of RAM and nobody had it. I went big first, duh. As for the USB experience, I was looking for a very specific kind of laptop, under 3.5 lbs., and under a certain price range, so I had to shop around for a deal, and the place happened to sell pens. The manufacturer had warranty, and HP's even replaced my entire laptop for me when it was destroyed 2 years later. I buy by credit card, so I can cancel if I want.

The Kernel wrote:No you don't. Newegg sells prebuilt machines, and for budget boxes you can often get them cheaper from a company like Newegg or even Dell than from your local shop. It's the midrange machines with graphics card disproportionate to their CPU's that you enjoy a price advantage by building your own (or if you want premium/overclocking components).

Zod already covered it, but basically if I ever get another desktop, I'm not picking a prebuilt machine which may or may not have scalable valuable parts so I'll get a computer nerd I know in real life to look over it. And if he's doing that, he might as well build it for me.

Does Toronto not have a Fry's Electronics? Because that sounds like the answer to your problems.

It's not a "problem."

It was more of a rant. If I'm buying anything to do with computers again, I'm bringing someone who's a computer nerd, period. The risk is too great, whether it be some "specialty store" (like those stores can't rip you off, come on) or a megastore. Preference for smaller stores, for small business.

EDIT: Cause it was more of a rant, maybe I shouldn't have made it at all, so I apologize if people were taking it seriously as if I had a real big problem with computer stores. I don't, and I'll bring someone who knows something about computers next time to guarantee that.

Sorry, I think I'm not explaining it right, I'm trying to draw a line between bad small computer sales shops and good ones, but it's fairly difficult because they both function pretty much the same, the differences are in the nuances. The rant was perfectly fine, we're just having trouble picturing the type of stores you went to (and the cultural gulf between Canada and Croatia probably isn't helping much in my case - for example, here you fully depend on the store's warranty, the manufacturers one is hard to impossible to get honored, so deciding if the store will be in a position to honor the warranty and whether they will be assholes trying to weasel out of it are very important concerns - I'm guessing not so much in Canada where you're covered by the manufacturers warranty).

Anyhow, probably the best advice about store choice is to go to a larger local tech web forum and ask there for recommendations, usually you'll get 3-4 recommended by most posters and those are the ones you should use.

I would not trust a web tech forum over someone I know personally in real life, sorry. I asked here for a second opinion, not as a first opinion.

I am interested in knowing what kind of stores you have in Croatia. Apparently you think my problems were because I went to a store which sold computers on the side, and mostly electronics. Over here the only stores which do that are the megastores like Future Shops and Best Buys. I thought that would be the same everywhere since stock and inventory space is limited. The general store doesn't really exist in North America, at least not as much as you seem to think. Smaller stores specialize, and when I say go to a computer store I mean a dedicated store which sells computer products. The USB pen was bought in an asian mall, and those are notorious for counterfeiting. However they don't have the overhead of larger stores, and have slimmer profit margins. These kind of stores cater to people who know exactly what they want, but don't care if customer service is shit and the store has no frills and they offer no store warranty.

I see nothing which shows me that small generally implies bad, as you seem to be suggesting.

isn't tiger direct local to toronto?

brianeyci wrote: I see nothing which shows me that small generally implies bad, as you seem to be suggesting.

The biggest thing that stands out to me is when you talked about being 'too lazy to haggle' and having to worry about the possibility of getting counterfeit parts. A great many people are completely unfamiliar with haggling (and there are those that actively dislike doing it, even), and to me the notion of there being a significant risk of inadvertantly getting a counterfeit part is rather mind-boggling.

Uranium hit that nail squarely on its head. Its not so much the smallness (the stores I'm mentioning are also specialists of small to medium size), but the idea of haggling and worrying about counterfit parts. That to me suggests either the rock bottom class of small specialized stores or a shady operation. Both are to be avoided in my book.

Well what kind of stores sell mod chips where you are. What kind of stores are there around to buy pirated DVDs. You're telling me these places don't exist where you are? There's no stores to buy cheap computer shit? I always have to worry about counterfeits when I'm buying from independent owners, and I choose independents because I like small business. I didn't really have to worry about counterfeits downtown, but it's a learned habit.

Looks like I would've saved nine bucks on TigerDirect. Not a big deal, since I wanted it right away that day.

EDIT: I find it mind boggling that you guys don't have to check for counterfeit parts. When you buy brand new towers, you don't open them out and inspect them to make sure the computer guru put in all the parts he promised? It seems an incredible leap of faith to me not to check. Substandard parts, not exactly counterfeit but close enough.

I don't buy mod chips (seeing as I don't buy consoles), and why the hell would I buy pirated DVDs when (if I were to commit such gross copyright violations, that is) I could just download them off the internet for free?

As for computers, I piece together my own computers with parts I personally select and all of the local shops almost invariably sell mid- to high-grade components at higher prices than online vendors like Newegg or Tiger Direct.

The idea of trusting someone enough to give them piles of money, but not enough to expect to recieve what you paid for, is absurd. Even the dodgiest trade wholesaler wouldn't pull something like that in AU, and 'bad' vs 'good' is almost always determined by honouring warranties.

Well I guess I'm old fashioned. I did buy my 256 USB pen SanDisk from TigerDirect, just that I thought something outdated like 512 of PC2100 would be cheap. Guess I was wrong by nine bucks. I don't do enough computer shopping to know whether Pacific Mall or small stores are cheaper or more expensive than TigerDirect or NewEgg. I do know this, not necessarily everybody who goes to those stores are suckers, since if they were that horrible they would've burned away their credibility years ago and they're still running strong. You can only burn away your capital away so much before you're out of business, like that guy who sold the fake USB pen. It's not so much a significant risk, but something you do.

Stark wrote:The idea of trusting someone enough to give them piles of money, but not enough to expect to recieve what you paid for, is absurd. Even the dodgiest trade wholesaler wouldn't pull something like that in AU, and 'bad' vs 'good' is almost always determined by honouring warranties.

The thing is, they don't always know it's counterfeit. Or sometimes they do it on purpose. CityTv just did an series on a guy who sold counterfeit brand name glasses. The guy was screaming, "Go ahead and do it, any news is good news!" right to the camera, like he didn't even care millions would see them badmouth his store on the 6 o'clock news. Checking is just the right thing to do, which reminds me I have to call Kingston tomorrow. The idea of not checking after spending a lot of money on something seems silly to me.

Now I realize what kind of shop you're talking about and, yes, I would buy at most the mod chip in there (seeing how legitimate stores will not carry it since its technically illegal even if everyone does it). That you worry about counterfeited stuff in Canada of all places is mind boggling. Jesus man, find a proper store, having those sorts of worries is insane.

I mostly shop at these two places: Links - that would be the enthusiast shop, they are basically a small buisness, although they opened two more shops besides their primary one recently in other cities trying to bank on their reputation in the tech community. The second is HGspot, the largest consumer retailer of electronics here which I use mostly for single parts (I've also shopped with them since they were a small 10m^2 shop so they mostly haven't lost their local buisness charm to me). At both of those, I've never had to worry about counterfeit stuff, both have honored their warranties to the letter (HGspot even fixed my SyncMaster monitor that was 4.5 years old when it started having issues on a 5 year warranty without complaint - the monitor was from their small shop days and I brought it to their megastore and nobody had a problem with it). Why would I go shopping at the questionable places (and places that sell mod chips are that) for a 10% discount at best when I can buy stuff at places that I trust to both get it assembled right, honor the warranty quickly if anything does fail, and most definitely not have to worry about counterfeits?

Notice also that both the shops I mentioned did not just survive like the ones you mentioned but thrived and turned themselves into chains in a while - they did this because of the quality of their service which the consumers recognized.