Creating a Civ IV mod

[Sam Or I]

I am going to under take the process of creating a CIV IV (Warlords) mod. Nothing serious just to see if I can and for personal use. My goals are to expand the tech tree a bit, and add an additional unique unit to each of the civilization.

The unique units in the game already will also be getting a bump in power.

Here are some of my thoughts so far for new universal units (If you can think of any more that would be a good fit please let me know):


Tribesmen, before the warriors
Sling warrior, before the archer
Pioneer, after the explorer
BiPlane, before the fighter
Jet Bomber, longer range and more powerful than a Stealth bomber, but can't evade
Jet Interceptor, Pure intercept missions (Fighters and Jet Fighters intercept will be downgraded) after the jet fighter
Mobile Sam
Howtzier
Aegis Cruiser

Now for me comes the hard part, historically accurate unique units, that fit into game well. Heres my list so far, I am open to suggestions, please help with the ones with a "??" by them:

America:F-22 (Jet interceptor)
Arab:??
Aztec: ??
Carthage: African War Elephant (Elephant)
Celtic: Gallic Spearman (Spearman)
Chinese: Junk (Galley)
Egypt: ??
English: Ship of the Line (Frigate)
French: Forgien Legion (Riflemen)
German: Triplane (Biplane)
Greek: Spartan (Swordsman)
Incan: ??
Indian: ?? Mig-21 Bison (Jet fighter), or Indian War Elephant (Elephant)
Japan: Yamato Class (Battleship)
Korea: Kobukson (Trimene)
Mali: ??
Mongolian: ??
Ottomans: ??
Persians: ??
Roman: Sarmatian Calavary (Horse Archer)
Russian: Typhoon (Submarine)
Spain: Spanish Gallon
Viking: Longboat (Galley)
Zulu: ??

[Thirdfain]

I'm always disappointed by the US unique units, it's never the obvious. What has America done militarily better than any other nation ever with no clear rivals whatsoever? The answer, sir, is obviously aircraft carriers. The F-22 shouldn't be the unique unit, the Enterprise or perhaps Forestal should.

[Sam Or I]

So a super carrier? The US is pretty easy to pick a unique unit, it is current and in the headlines every day. Most modern powers I can name a slue of units. Its the past powers like the Incas I have trouble with.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Ottoman Empire: Akinci(Mounted Archers) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akinci

Also I don't know who would fit it best, maybe the Persians, but I liked to see some Enslaved Soldiers arround Swordsman or Maceman as a unique unit that is weaker but cheaper to prodoce(or no maintence cost), rather than every unique being unit+1.

Infact that might be an idea, making a lacking unit for each Civ.

Also I'd give the Egyptians their own equivalent of Fast Worker.

[Sam Or I]

Ottoman Empire: Akinci(Mounted Archers) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akinci

Also I don't know who would fit it best, maybe the Persians, but I liked to see some Enslaved Soldiers arround Swordsman or Maceman as a unique unit that is weaker but cheaper to prodoce(or no maintence cost), rather than every unique being unit+1.

Infact that might be an idea, making a lacking unit for each Civ.

Also I'd give the Egyptians their own equivalent of Fast Worker.

Hehe, discover Monotheism, and get the "slave" worker unit. I know its wrong. In seriousness, what about a worker for half the price for the egyptians?

I agree with you, I like the idea of cheap cannon fodder units. I rolled it around in my head a while back.

I never thought of taking away a unit though. Any ideas on which units to take away and in which empire?

[Anarchist Bunny]

Aztec: Atlatl Thower(Longbow/Crossbowman): I suggest this as it was a weapon that Spanish Conquistidor' feared for ability to pierce there armor. Maybe give them Pinch to start with because of it.

Also I'd give German the Luftwaffe.

For the Greeks I like the idea of a Helepolis with a starting bonus or two to City Attack rather than ANOTHER swordsman.

The Mongolians were apparently also know for their siege warfare, maybe a Unigue Unit of the Trebuchet?

[Anarchist Bunny]

Ottoman Empire: Akinci(Mounted Archers) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akinci

Also I don't know who would fit it best, maybe the Persians, but I liked to see some Enslaved Soldiers arround Swordsman or Maceman as a unique unit that is weaker but cheaper to prodoce(or no maintence cost), rather than every unique being unit+1.

Infact that might be an idea, making a lacking unit for each Civ.

Also I'd give the Egyptians their own equivalent of Fast Worker.

Hehe, discover Monotheism, and get the "slave" worker unit. I know its wrong. In seriousness, what about a worker for half the price for the egyptians?

I agree with you, I like the idea of cheap cannon fodder units. I rolled it around in my head a while back.

I never thought of taking away a unit though. Any ideas on which units to take away and in which empire?

I don't know about taking away so much as making less effective. Like the Mongols having weaker Naval ships.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Aztec: Atlatl Thower(Longbow/Crossbowman): I suggest this as it was a weapon that Spanish Conquistidor' feared for ability to pierce there armor. Maybe give them Pinch to start with because of it.

Also I'd give German the Luftwaffe.

For the Greeks I like the idea of a Helepolis with a starting bonus or two to City Attack rather than ANOTHER swordsman.

The Mongolians were apparently also know for their siege warfare, maybe a Unigue Unit of the Trebuchet?

hehe

plauge trebechet

[RogueIce]

Pioneer, after the explorer

Ok, so maybe Civ IV is radically different from C3C, but generally I find that I'd explore pretty much all of the map not in someone else's territory not too long after I get Explorers. So I don't see much need for some unit after that.

Mobile Sam
Howtzier
Aegis Cruiser

The fuck? There's no Mobile SAM or Aegis Cruiser in Civ IV? WTF were they smoking?

[Anarchist Bunny]

Aztec: Atlatl Thower(Longbow/Crossbowman): I suggest this as it was a weapon that Spanish Conquistidor' feared for ability to pierce there armor. Maybe give them Pinch to start with because of it.

Also I'd give German the Luftwaffe.

For the Greeks I like the idea of a Helepolis with a starting bonus or two to City Attack rather than ANOTHER swordsman.

The Mongolians were apparently also know for their siege warfare, maybe a Unigue Unit of the Trebuchet?

hehe

plauge trebechet

YES! With bonus to collateral damage.

[Sam Or I]

Pioneer, after the explorer

Ok, so maybe Civ IV is radically different from C3C, but generally I find that I'd explore pretty much all of the map not in someone else's territory not too long after I get Explorers. So I don't see much need for some unit after that.

Mobile Sam
Howtzier
Aegis Cruiser

The fuck? There's no Mobile SAM or Aegis Cruiser in Civ IV? WTF were they smoking?

You are right about the pioneer.

Nope, no mobile sam, Howtzier or Aegis cruiser. I do not know what they were smoking to be honest. Truthfully, the Mobile SAM and the Howtzier models are in the program, but not being used.

[Sam Or I]

Aztec: Atlatl Thower(Longbow/Crossbowman): I suggest this as it was a weapon that Spanish Conquistidor' feared for ability to pierce there armor. Maybe give them Pinch to start with because of it.

Also I'd give German the Luftwaffe.

For the Greeks I like the idea of a Helepolis with a starting bonus or two to City Attack rather than ANOTHER swordsman.

The Mongolians were apparently also know for their siege warfare, maybe a Unigue Unit of the Trebuchet?

hehe

plauge trebechet

great idea.

[The Yosemite Bear]

yeah, well they did traditionally launch plauge infested animals into a city at one point.

[Fingolfin_Noldor]

The Romans and the Byzantines were never given sufficient justice. The Russians should have heavy Rocket Cruisers like the Kirovs. Those were beasties.

[Thirdfain]

The Ottomans ought to have Janassaries as their unique unit- Christian children levied as taxes from Greece and the Balkans, raised as Muslims and highly trained in modern war... perhaps as an improved Musketeer unit?

[Anarchist Bunny]

The Ottomans ought to have Janassaries as their unique unit- Christian children levied as taxes from Greece and the Balkans, raised as Muslims and highly trained in modern war... perhaps as an improved Musketeer unit?

Already do, replacing that unit. Damn bastards at 2K took the easy one first.

[The Yosemite Bear]

hmmm, how about each force having a unique unit for each era.

so that you don't have to wait forever for something?

like the USA could have the Ranger as an explore scout replacement

[RogueIce]

hmmm, how about each force having a unique unit for each era.

so that you don't have to wait forever for something?

That's not a bad idea, IMO. Some civs get a UU in the Ancient Era, while others have to wait around for the Modern Era to get theirs. It would be nice to have some UU in all era to balance it out a bit, I think.

The difficulty is in coming up with some kind of fitting UU in eras where a particular civ wasn't around, like a uniquely "American (aka US in Civ terms)" unit in Ancient times, or Incan unit in Modern.

[Stark]

Face it: the UU thing is broken like that anyway. Play Aztecs, get your primitive UU... then in late-game you've got nothing. Hooray.

It's worse in longer-lived 'civilizations' (urk) like the English: Longbowmen? No Royal Navy? Once you're in the gunpowder age almost everyone gets nothing. The Germans get panzers... but no heavy knights.

I think it'd work better if the UUs were 'activated': it's retarded that these cultures always get their UU, even in magical fantasy land where Germany is never ruled by the Nazis and isn't at the forefront of mechanised warfare.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Face it: the UU thing is broken like that anyway. Play Aztecs, get your primitive UU... then in late-game you've got nothing. Hooray.

It's worse in longer-lived 'civilizations' (urk) like the English: Longbowmen? No Royal Navy? Once you're in the gunpowder age almost everyone gets nothing. The Germans get panzers... but no heavy knights.

I think it'd work better if the UUs were 'activated': it's retarded that these cultures always get their UU, even in magical fantasy land where Germany is never ruled by the Nazis and isn't at the forefront of mechanised warfare.

Thanks for not playing the game!

Germany, French, English, Ottoman Empire, Russia and US all get gunpowder or after unique units. India have Fast Workers that last the whole game.

Anyways as a whole the units are not vastly more powerful than other units. All it does is give you a slight advantage during a period during which that civilization was at top(Red Coats for the Brits, Berserkers for the Vikings, Marines for the US, Panzers for the Germans, Keshiks for the Mongols) They all seem to come from when that civ was militarily on top. The thing is, like a golden age, just a set peroid where you gave a slight advantage to capitalize on. Only unlike the golden age, you know when its coming and can plan on it.

[Stark]

Yeah, and that's stupid because you're not playing history. Like I said, it's retarded for a culture to get a 'bonus unit' simply because it's real namesake did. If they were accessable to anyone who could achieve something (like emphasising mechanised warfare, built a pile of tanks, whatever) it'd be a little more organic than 'your name is x thus you are awesome at y unit for no ingame reason whatsoever'.

But hey, you didn't read my post (yeah, I mention panzers but you think I claim Germany gets no post-gunpowder UUs, that's totally what I said) so I don't expect much of a discussion. What post-gunpowder unique units do ancient cultures get?

This is like the TW games not giving groups like Byzantines late-game 'fantasy' units because historically they were gone by then. In YOUR game they might not be, but too fucking bad.

[Ted C]

America:F-22 (Jet interceptor)

The defining component of the modern American military is the Supercarrier (add fighter capacity over a regular carrier).

French: Forgien Legion (Riflemen)

Isn't the current special unit the Musketeer? I don't see that there's much difference.

Japan: Yamato Class (Battleship)

I don't know that the Yamato was that big an improvement over other battleships of the time, nor did it play a significant role in the war. I'd say the Mitusbishi Zero was a far more memorable icon of the Imperial Japanese war machine.

Roman: Sarmatian Calavary (Horse Archer)

I'd be inclined to go with a Roman Ballista to replace the Catapult.

Russian: Typhoon (Submarine)

What would its upgrade be? It's defined by its missile capacity, so it's sub that can transport ICBMs?

Viking: Longboat (Galley)

Definitely. I would probably make it able to go out to sea.

[Ted C]

Yeah, and that's stupid because you're not playing history. Like I said, it's retarded for a culture to get a 'bonus unit' simply because it's real namesake did. If they were accessable to anyone who could achieve something (like emphasising mechanised warfare, built a pile of tanks, whatever) it'd be a little more organic than 'your name is x thus you are awesome at y unit for no ingame reason whatsoever'.

You can turn off unique units in the options, you know.

[Anarchist Bunny]

Yeah, and that's stupid because you're not playing history. Like I said, it's retarded for a culture to get a 'bonus unit' simply because it's real namesake did. If they were accessable to anyone who could achieve something (like emphasising mechanised warfare, built a pile of tanks, whatever) it'd be a little more organic than 'your name is x thus you are awesome at y unit for no ingame reason whatsoever'.

In that case, why have any set deviations between any Civilizations? Elminate the Civ characteristics(militaristic, religious, industrious), so you can play as passifictic Germans. Why have those real world Civs in there at all? Just making every Civ start of exactly the same with a made up name. Its not like people play this game for the historical aspects. Lets just make it so that the first discover gets Muskeetmen +1, or Tanks+1, rather than drawing on the accual history of the civ to get their UU.

But hey, you didn't read my post (yeah, I mention panzers but you think I claim Germany gets no post-gunpowder UUs, that's totally what I said) so I don't expect much of a discussion.

No, what you stated was there is a lack of late game UUs and I was giving examples of how there are a fair ammount, even if they are not the majority.

What post-gunpowder unique units do ancient cultures get?

The ones they had. Their UU come from when they were on top mostly and mainly. As I stated earlier, its a HISTORICAL game. You aren't reliving history, but your playing with cultures from history in your own worlds.

[Stark]

I know how it's 'supposed' to work and I know you can turn it off: I was responding to RogueIce pointing out that the implentation is spotty. If you're going to complain about the suggestions here, you have to realise most of them are no better or worse than the ones already ingame. Changing the superpowers isn't going to make them less broken, and you can't really 'even out' the UU distribution without unhistorical things like stone-age US UUs and lategame Aztec UUs. Something, frankly, I think should exist ANYWAY, since the Lincoln-led US being in 4000BC pretty much sets the standard.

Not being a big Civ fan, I had no idea that players were so comfortable with the Meierisms. I think Meier's non-Civ games did 'racial bonuses' in a more organic way than 'I'll use my broadsword'.