Clean install chopped out of Vista upgrade discs

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2007-01-28 12:20pm

Just when it looked like MS were going to treat enthusiasts with a smidge more respect after that 1 copy-1 computer thing, they go and do this:

DailyTech:

When it comes to the Windows Vista, Microsoft is changing a long-standing tradition when it comes to upgrading from a previous version of Windows. No longer will popping in a disc of a previous version of Windows during setup satisfy the people in Redmond when using an upgrade CD.

For example, when performing a clean install of Windows XP Professional using an upgrade CD, users would run through the normal setup routine until prompted to insert a previous version of Windows. A user could pop in a Windows 98 or Windows 2000 CD for upgrade compliance and then the setup routine would move along as usual.

Microsoft has cut out this process for Windows Vista and forces users who buy an upgrade CD to actually have a valid install of Windows XP Home or Professional on their machines before upgrading.

For most users, this wouldn't be a problem. They more than likely have an existing copy of Windows XP installed and would have no problems upgrading to Windows Vista with an upgrade CD.

But for do-it-yourselfers who buy a Vista upgrade CD and think that they can easily perform a clean install whenever they feel free are going to run into the road block. In this case, the road block means that users wanting to perform a clean install with a Vista upgrade CD will have to:

1) Install a genuine copy of Windows XP Home/Professional
2) Activate Windows XP through Microsoft
3) Upgrade to Windows Vista from within Windows XP

So if you plan on saving money by using a Vista upgrade CD instead of purchasing a full copy, be aware that you’re have a few extra steps involved before booting to the Vista desktop for the first time. If you don’t want to deal with the hassle, you’re going to have to pony up for a full copy of Vista.

Yet another bullshit licensing restriction that has no technical reason whatsoever. And some people still say that they're a benevolent monopoly...

Netko · Post by **Netko** » 2007-01-28 02:06pm

As much bullshit as that is (ever heard of reinstalls MS?), I

my MSDNAA account. Vista Business full edition for 0$, hell yeah!

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2007-01-28 03:55pm

Okay, so lets say you've got an image of XP Pro which can be activated from as many computers as your heart desires, could 1 Vista upgrade disk allow you to upgrade multiple machines?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-01-28 04:07pm

InnocentBystander wrote:Okay, so lets say you've got an image of XP Pro which can be activated from as many computers as your heart desires, could 1 Vista upgrade disk allow you to upgrade multiple machines?

No.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2007-01-28 09:53pm

Yet another bullshit licensing restriction that has no technical reason whatsoever.

You know how trivially easy it is to grab someone else's full-install CD so that you can buy the 'upgrade' version? Or even 'better', to download an ISO from the internet and use that to trick the installer? It's not like each individual CD is unique, you know. Unless someone has a better idea, I rather suspect this is the only credible alternative to MS throwing their hands up and abandoning the "upgrade" model altogether.

Honestly, how many 'enthusiasts' are there who fit all of the following:

- Are not members of an institution (whether students of a university, or otherwise) through which they could purchase at reduced cost a full version
- Do not have friends who are members of aforementioned institution who they could get to purchase Windows for them and then reimburse them
- Have a legal copy of a previous version of Windows which qualifies for the 'upgrade' program
- Will actually legally purchase Windows as opposed to pirate it

And how utterly insignificant is this demographic of people in terms of the total customer base?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-01-28 11:30pm

On the other hand, doesn't an upgrade version cost as much as an OEM full version? Frankly, any non-OEM versions of Windows exist solely for the purpose of gouging consumers who don't know any better.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2007-01-29 12:22am

Darth Wong wrote:On the other hand, doesn't an upgrade version cost as much as an OEM full version? Frankly, any non-OEM versions of Windows exist solely for the purpose of gouging consumers who don't know any better.

The problem with OEM version is that they don't contain dual 32-bit/64-bit builds. For someone like me I'm pretty much forced into buying a regular version as I want to have the option to install 32-bit now, then 64-bit later when the software matures.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2007-01-29 12:26am

That's an interesting point, although XP had a 64-bit version and I was under the impression that it wasn't worth the bother.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2007-01-29 01:35am

Darth Wong wrote:That's an interesting point, although XP had a 64-bit version and I was under the impression that it wasn't worth the bother.

XP 64-bit was a tester OS that really was meant for development purposes. 64-bit Vista is definitely the future, but the driver and application support isn't there yet.

If you consider the length of time until 4GB+ becomes the standard power user memory load, then memory address space alone is going to cause people to flock to Vista 64-bit in 2007.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2007-01-29 09:06am

The Kernel wrote:The problem with OEM version is that they don't contain dual 32-bit/64-bit builds. For someone like me I'm pretty much forced into buying a regular version as I want to have the option to install 32-bit now, then 64-bit later when the software matures.

Going by UK prices, buying both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Vista Home Premium OEM costs you about £140. If you shell out for the full box version of Home Premium, it's £210.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2007-01-29 09:54am

Mwave has both 32-bit and 64-bit Home Premium OEM list as $115 each. Since they don't have the retail prices, I'll use Amazon's: $226.99. So for the States, its almost an even trade.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2007-01-29 10:49am

Ah, I see. It looks like we're paying about the same for the OEM versions, but for some reason our retail box prices have been almost doubled over their US counterparts. Just another reason why the boxed versions are a rip-off...

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2007-01-29 12:14pm

DaveJB wrote:Ah, I see. It looks like we're paying about the same for the OEM versions, but for some reason our retail box prices have been almost doubled over their US counterparts. Just another reason why the boxed versions are a rip-off...

I don't get European pricing for computer hardware or software. For every major product release I pay attention to, it looks like you guys are paying at least fifty percent more than the US.

As for me, it looks like I'm going with Ultimate Retail. I need the extra networking features for VPN and Remote Desktop for work, and I want to start with 32-bit and then switch to 64-bit with in the next two years; I don't see the prices going down between now and then, since they didn't with XP, so I'll be paying the same amount either way. And I might have a couple of people that want to go in with me and get the discount deal on Home Premium, which would offset my costs a little bit.

Edward Yee · Post by **Edward Yee** » 2007-01-29 04:35pm

Having looked at the OP article and comments, is there any knowledge of how a Media Center laptop would be affected, or does MCE2005 fall under Pro software-wise? (As I believe this makes the Express Upgrade program not so great... and a backup of my stuff more urgent.)

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2007-01-29 04:51pm

Edward Yee wrote:Having looked at the OP article and comments, is there any knowledge of how a Media Center laptop would be affected, or does MCE2005 fall under Pro software-wise? (As I believe this makes the Express Upgrade program not so great... and a backup of my stuff more urgent.)

MCE can be upgraded to either Home Premium or Ultimate.

Lancer · Post by **Lancer** » 2007-01-29 04:52pm

Upgrade paths

I'm not sure, but I believe that MCE2005 is Windows XP Media Center.

Pint0 Xtreme · Post by **Pint0 Xtreme** » 2007-01-29 05:05pm

Quick question: If you have a non-ultimate version of Windows Vista, is it easy or inexpensive to upgrade to a more expansive version?

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2007-01-29 05:38pm

Not a clue, but my commiserations to anyone unfortunate enough to purchase home basic. That OS has been horrendously gimped.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2007-01-29 05:39pm

Pint0 Xtreme wrote:Quick question: If you have a non-ultimate version of Windows Vista, is it easy or inexpensive to upgrade to a more expansive version?

I'm not sure if it's inexpensive but it is pretty easy - somewhere in the Welcome page (IIRC) there will be an upgrade option. The install media already contains the extra content.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2007-01-30 03:19am

You might want to look into MS's Technet which gets you both Vista & Office (plus lots of others) with thier high end versions for less than the cost of just Vista & Office retail/OEM.

I'm fairly sure just the DL access gets disabled once the subscription ends and the product keys still remain valid.

bilateralrope · Post by **bilateralrope** » 2007-01-30 03:38am

Spyder wrote:Not a clue, but my commiserations to anyone unfortunate enough to purchase home basic. That OS has been horrendously gimped.

I actually see nothing listed as not being in the basic version that actually interests me, so if I ever get Vista for my home computer it will probably be the basic version. Though I have to wounder why they put the extra games in the business version.

DaveJB · Post by **DaveJB** » 2007-01-30 07:21am

If none of the other editions interest you, then you should probably just stick with XP. There isn't really anything in Home Basic (other than DX10, which won't be required by games for a while yet) that you can't duplicate with free apps.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2007-01-30 11:32am

If anyone's interested, Ars has a good summary of the differences between the retail and OEM licenses.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2007-01-30 01:33pm

They just had a piece on BBC News on it, and everyone pretty much said they'd get it when forced to, ergo, years from now hopefully. The only good comments came from 16-year-olds who liked the decidedly clunky and unoriginal Aero interface.

Wow, I'm sold!

It gets better with the user comments on the Beeb site.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2007-01-30 01:40pm

It gets better with the user comments on the Beeb site.

Holy shit. There's one Gates-wanker on page one, all the others are saying that Vista is uesless at best and broken at worst. Someone at MS's marketing department should read this...

ETA: sorry, the wanker was being quoted so someone could bash MS some more