Thinking of going to Linux

[Shroom Man 777]

I've read Wong's rants, found my computer to be excessively slow, learned about Windows rot. That's a load of crap, man! That's grotesque! And that shit...doesn't happen to Linux? Wow.

Now, I'm wondering. How easy would it be for me to switch to Linux? I'm barely literate about computers, there's a shitload of files in my comp, it's a P4 with Windows XP Pro. If I uninstall XP and go install some fancy Linux, will it be easy? Will I lose any files? Will I have to reinstall my programs and software? Is it as simple as changing underwear, or something as technoconfabulated as electronic brain surgery? Are most programs compatible with Linux?

Ultimately, I'll have to consult my elder sister, but I'd like to hear from you guys.

[Ace Pace]

I've read Wong's rants, found my computer to be excessively slow, learned about Windows rot. That's a load of crap, man! That's grotesque! And that shit...doesn't happen to Linux? Wow.

Operating systems are vulnerable to idiots who can't maintain them, Linux and OSX only make it harder to happen.

Now, I'm wondering. How easy would it be for me to switch to Linux?

It's not that hard today, not with Ubuntu and stuff, but a good amount of basic computer knowledge will help.

I'm barely literate about computers, there's a shitload of files in my comp, it's a P4 with Windows XP Pro. If I uninstall XP and go install some fancy Linux, will it be easy? Will I lose any files?

If you back up the files on CDs or an external storage medium, no, but a clean format and installation of Linux will wipe files, rather obviously.

Will I have to reinstall my programs and software?

Your programs will not be transferable, however, most of your day to day programs include replacements in Linux.

? Is it as simple as changing underwear, or something as technoconfabulated as electronic brain surgery?

Ubuntu...eh. Depends on knowledge.

I'd say that it'd be very helpful to know slightly more about computers then what you know now before making the switch.

[Alferd Packer]

Is it as simple as changing underwear, or something as technoconfabulated as electronic brain surgery?

It's somewhere in the middle, but severely leaning towards the latter. And no, Windows programs don't work out of the box in Linux; you need to install an emulator that tricks Windows programs into running. Happily, pretty much any program you have now (except for games) have a Linux-based equivalent. Observe:

IE - Firefox
Outlook - Evolution(or Thunderbird)
Trillian - GAIM
Office - OpenOffice.org
Winamp - XMMS


And so on. If there's a program you want for Linux(except for games), odds are its out there.

Having said that, you do need to be able to install and configure an operating system, so if you've never done that before, this is probably a not-so-good idea to try it with Linux. Certain distros do make it much easier than others, but if you've never reformatted a hard drive and installed any sort of OS brandy new, you're going to have difficulties.

[General Zod]

If you play anything resembling modern games at all, I'd recommend not bothering.

[Shroom Man 777]

Not bothering then

Sorry to waste your time.

[Admiral Valdemar]

If you play anything resembling modern games at all, I'd recommend not bothering.

Not bothering then

Sorry to waste your time.

Woah, woah. woah! Now I like playing modern games, and guess what, I'm a fully devoted Linux boy now. Who says you can't enjoy gaming at the cost of a good FREE OS?

Dual boot. It's a piece of piss, so much so, that I can get my bro to do it. All you do is get whatever distro you happen to want to go with (I tested a couple before going with Ubuntu, which I highly recommend) and partition some of your hard drive to hold that Linux install, while keeping the rest of your hard disk with Windows on.

It's fool proof. All you need to do is make sure you've enough free space to accommodate Linux and don't erase the part of your HDD that has Windows. Once that's done, you can boot up into either operating system via a menu that comes on screen after BIOS starts. If you want to play your games, go and boot into Windows. Want to do anything else, go into Linux. And if you really want, you can use VMWare to run a virtual version of Windows in Linux should you prefer to use an app. in Windows that has no equivalent in Linux (doesn't work with gaming too well).

Read up on it some more then see how you feel. If you think it's beyond you or not worth the bother, then so be it. I'd advise you back up anything on your HDD on principle anyway, given even if the improbable should happen during the install, you need to keep regular back-ups of your data should a virus, power surge or what have you kill your hard drive.

[Shroom Man 777]

I don't have much games on this crappy PC. My Dark Crusade's on the Dual Core. But like they say, it's not an easy feat to do the OS-installing and crap. I'd have to do all the backupping and stuff and formatting, it'll be hard. Hell, I can get my pseudo-tech-savvy sister to do it, but she'll bitch and grunt and get angry. It's beyond me and I'm bloody lazy. I'll try talking to her about it though.

Can I download the Linux OS?

[R. U. Serious]

Now, I'm wondering. How easy would it be for me to switch to Linux? I'm barely literate about computers, there's a shitload of files in my comp, it's a P4 with Windows XP Pro. If I uninstall XP and go install some fancy Linux, will it be easy?

For people without pre-conceptions a good Desktop-oriented Linux distribution is often easier to use. However people that have gotten used to Windows need to calculate some time to get used to things. It's a little bit like getting used to operating the mouse with your other hand - at first it seems odd and unfamiliar, and you are sometimes slower to accomplish the things that you were used to do in a specific way, it looks and feels a bit klunky. Once you 've gone over a certain threshhold all of that disappears. Is it wirth the trouble? IMHO definitely, at least for me it was.

Will I have to reinstall my programs and software?

It depends on your software. While I was on Windows I was using Firefox, Thunderbird, Openoffice, psi, bash, screen, irssi etc., all of those were cross-platform applications, and after installing the linux versions of those applications I simply moved over the profile folders of each aplication and picked up where I had left off in Windows.
But in general you should be prepared to get used to different applications - in fact most of the time you won't need to hunt for software on the web and deal with different setups etc., with Linux-Distributions you usually use the package-manager, which is a simple GUI that lets you choose from a few thousand applications that other people have made available for your platform. It's easy trying things out and removing them later.

Is it as simple as changing underwear, or something as technoconfabulated as electronic brain surgery?

No, it's not simple. In fact I just recently read an article that was comparing switching your operating system to performing brain surgery on yourself. I wouldn't go quite that far, but as explained above a lot has to do with changing habbits, and it takes some discipline to stay through the "klunkiness" phase.

My advice to you, would be to get a hold of a liveCD (for example Ubuntu), and start using it and playing with it. If you feel comfortable, you should go for a dual-boot setup to explore it further.

[Bounty]

Can I download the Linux OS?

There isn't "a" Linux OS, but a whole range of distributions based on the Linux kernel. Many of them can be used as a LiveCD, ie, you don't have to install anything, the OS is loaded into memory and the hard disk isn't touched. Try Ubuntu or Knoppix.

[Shroom Man 777]

@ R. U. Serious

Most of my computer habits are foruming (through Firefox), writing on MSword, chatting and stuff. I mean, I play games, but I do that on the Dual Core and on internet cafes with other folks. I'm sure Linux word processors aren't that radically different.

I'm just worried about the whole process of installing the damned thing. Which I'm clearly unqualified to do. The only person at hand who's qualified is my grouchy sister.

To do this great feat, I'll have to pass down the request through family bureaucracy. Our family business necessitates a lot of files, most of em are in the Dual Core, but my computer has some backup files we'll most probably never need. My PC has 3 40gig hard drives, they're almost full.

So, obviously, I can't just change OS on a whim.

[Bounty]

Most of my computer habits are foruming (through Firefox), writing on MSword, chatting and stuff. I mean, I play games, but I do that on the Dual Core and on internet cafes with other folks. I'm sure Linux word processors aren't that radically different.

It's not just the programs, it's the way the OS works. The distros I used were pretty close to Windows in terms of UI but even then you have to learn about permissions, mounting partitions, using package managers, using the command line etc. I didn't find the switch *quite* as hard as I thought but I still had some trouble getting internet to work - even getting Linux to admit that yes, I was the owner of my data partition was a pain.

Just try one of those liveCD's and you'll see what I mean.

[Shroom Man 777]

As a simpleton, I find all those things you've just said to be downright scary. I can barely keep myself afloat with all of Windows' confabulated techno-crap - having to learn all that stuff, well, it sounds like a whole lot of grief. And worse still is that I don't know anyone who can help me set it up.

Why do these things have to be so complicated?

[Bounty]

It sounds scary, but it's not so hard once you see it in action.

[General Zod]

It sounds scary, but it's not so hard once you see it in action.

I tried using a couple of linux distros last year. Ubuntu and Mandriva One. Both were somewhat simple to install, but once I got past that I ran into dependency hell. Trying to install any program was a huge pain in the ass, since once you tried installing a package it gave you a message that it wanted other packages to be installed first instead, and once you got those you find out you still need yet others. Fuck that shit. I want installation to be simple.

[Bounty]

Fuck that shit. I want installation to be simple.

?

Start Apt with Synaptec, select the application you want and it handles the rest. I've installed a few other apps without it myself (Slash'em, Google Earth) and they were all painless.

[EnsGabe]

It sounds scary, but it's not so hard once you see it in action.

I tried using a couple of linux distros last year. Ubuntu and Mandriva One. Both were somewhat simple to install, but once I got past that I ran into dependency hell. Trying to install any program was a huge pain in the ass, since once you tried installing a package it gave you a message that it wanted other packages to be installed first instead, and once you got those you find out you still need yet others. Fuck that shit. I want installation to be simple.

I'm confused- what's wrong with letting the other things install? If you're using a package manager, it all installs automagically.

[General Zod]

Fuck that shit. I want installation to be simple.

?

Start Apt with Synaptec, select the application you want and it handles the rest. I've installed a few other apps without it myself (Slash'em, Google Earth) and they were all painless.

When the laptop I was attempting to install it onto didn't have a landline based internet connection installation was anything but simple.

[General Zod]

It sounds scary, but it's not so hard once you see it in action.

I tried using a couple of linux distros last year. Ubuntu and Mandriva One. Both were somewhat simple to install, but once I got past that I ran into dependency hell. Trying to install any program was a huge pain in the ass, since once you tried installing a package it gave you a message that it wanted other packages to be installed first instead, and once you got those you find out you still need yet others. Fuck that shit. I want installation to be simple.

I'm confused- what's wrong with letting the other things install? If you're using a package manager, it all installs automagically.

It's not letting them install that was the problem. It's finding out that I had to install three dozen things on top of the initial package to get the software I wanted to run. Having to install from source for several pieces of software I wanted was a pain in the ass.

[EnsGabe]

I tried using a couple of linux distros last year. Ubuntu and Mandriva One. Both were somewhat simple to install, but once I got past that I ran into dependency hell. Trying to install any program was a huge pain in the ass, since once you tried installing a package it gave you a message that it wanted other packages to be installed first instead, and once you got those you find out you still need yet others. Fuck that shit. I want installation to be simple.

I'm confused- what's wrong with letting the other things install? If you're using a package manager, it all installs automagically.

It's not letting them install that was the problem. It's finding out that I had to install three dozen things on top of the initial package to get the software I wanted to run. Having to install from source for several pieces of software I wanted was a pain in the ass.

There are only two reasons I can think of for this to happen:

1) You were trying to install a (deb/rpm) that you downloaded and was not in your distributions software repositories.

When doing this, you are circumventing what your distribution has as its set of approved packages. (This sounds insidious, but it's more to ensure that a program installs all of its files in the correct places, in addition to automgically handling library dependencies. Large distributions, e.g. Debian, Fedora, Mandriva, and others, make a concerted effort to include as much software as possible.) When you do this, you're not invoking the auto-installation of the libraries.

2) You're using a third-party repository that's broken.

When using a third-party repository, you're running this risk. There's not much that can be done about this.

The bottom line is this: if you're using the package manager and the default repositories, there shouldn't be any software that requires installation from source.


Please correct me your situation was neither of the above.

[General Zod]

>snip<


Please correct me your situation was neither of the above.

Reread my posts and see the part where I mentioned that installation required an active landline internet connection. So I had to find another solution and had to install from the source packages. There was also some software I couldn't find in an rpm package, so I had no other choice but to use the source files.

[RThurmont]

This thread out to be retitled "Attack of the Microsoft Fanboys."

I don't have much games on this crappy PC. My Dark Crusade's on the Dual Core. But like they say, it's not an easy feat to do the OS-installing and crap. I'd have to do all the backupping and stuff and formatting, it'll be hard. Hell, I can get my pseudo-tech-savvy sister to do it, but she'll bitch and grunt and get angry. It's beyond me and I'm bloody lazy. I'll try talking to her about it though.

Installing Ubuntu (and derivatives) or Mandriva is ridiculously easy IMO. You can easily do it yourself. It's easier than installing Windows.

Can I download the Linux OS?

You sure can! Assuming you have a CD-R/RW drive, go to Ubuntu.com, and follow the instructions to burn the disk. Once you've done this, load the burned disk onto your primary optical drive, and reboot your computer. Your computer will boot to the disk, and you'll have the option to use Ubuntu before installing it, so you can see if it detects your hardware properly, et cetera. A few weeks ago I installed Ubuntu on an old Dell laptop with a 1280x800 screen, and everything, including the screen resolution, soundcard, and wifi adapter, was detected perfectly, and the installer is extremely simple, thus I reccommend Ubuntu as an ideal Linux starting point.

If that sounds over your head, there is another option, a Debian-based .exe installer that will automatically install Linux from your Windows system. I haven't used it though, and going the CD route is not hard, so I'd suggest you do that.

Additionally, if you have a USB memory stick, there are new Linux distros out that can easily be run from it. Feel free to IM me if you need any help. Once you have Ubuntu up and running, by the way, installing software on it is an absolute breeze compared to many other distros: you just go to the Synaptic Package Manager, find what you want, and bam. Dependencies are resolved automatically.

[SirNitram]

Another distro that works well can be Knoppix; it might have been set up beforehand, but Tev, who is not very techno-savvy, could use it with no problems when using it from a boot-disk when her hard-drive imploded.

Linux isn't that scary once you try it. And you can get shiny, Windows-esque skins to sooth you while you go through withdrawl.

[Bounty]

This thread out to be retitled "Attack of the Microsoft Fanboys."

Why is that? Is it a crime to warn someone who apparently doesn't know his arse from his elbow that installing Linux can be difficult? Yes, it's easy if everything goes right, but if he loads up his shiny new desktop and finds that he doesn't have internet access and that one app his dad desperately needs for the business doesn't have a Unix version he's screwed, especially since it looks like he doesn't immediately have a way of backing up his current data.

Also, I trust that "install Ubuntu!" link about as far as I can throw it. No documentation? Downloading and running an installer with no preparation and without knowing what it does? No thank you.

[SirNitram]

Why is that? Is it a crime to warn someone who apparently doesn't know his arse from his elbow that installing Linux can be difficult?

Yes, when it's not, and hasn't been for a while, unless you go for the heavily customizable distros.

Also, I trust that "install Ubuntu!" link about as far as I can throw it. No documentation? Downloading and running an installer with no preparation and without knowing what it does? No thank you.

'Cause we all know RThurmont is a hax0r trying to cracks your megahurtz. Seriously, calm the fuck down.

[General Zod]

This thread out to be retitled "Attack of the Microsoft Fanboys."

Get back to me when Linux is capable of running all of the games on my laptop.