StarDestroyer.Net BBS

I thought I'd pose a question to the users of this board. I am, at present, strongly considering getting a gaming console, but am having a devil of a time deciding which one I'd like to get. So I thought I'd ask you guys for help in making the final decision.

What I'm interested in in a console is a system that offers interesting gameplay from a UI perspective, and at the same time ideally has some additional functionality. I'm really interested in both the PS3 and the Wii, as the former allows Linux installations, and the latter allows the download of my personal favorite web browser (Opera). However, the high price of the former, and the various criticisms thereof, and the availibility issues surrounding both have me a bit perplexed.

The XBox 360 seems like a well rounded option, but what scares me away from it is the lack of a web browser, and the fact that I know one of its developers, and can't stand him (I figure its better to use products developed by companies whose employees I actually like). There is also the PS2, which I would be more interested in were its Linux kits not "permanently out of stock." However, it is dirt cheap, and seems to be extremely readily availible.

Thoughts?

what kind of game are you after?
i mean, if you really want you can install linux on an Xbox.

Depends.


If you want an established console go with 360. While a good proportion of the 360's library doesn't interest me, its a solid console and the games do appeal to a lot of people.

If you want to wait a couple of months I'd consider the PS3. Much hate as it gets, its a decent console and I do expect it to get a large library of games, much like the PS2 did. Given the 360's lack of market share in Japan and the Wii's general lack of power I can see a lot of games going to it simply because the Wii can't handle them.

If you get a PS2 linux can still be found and added, it just requires more work.

I'd recommend the 360 or the Wii. Ignoring the fact that both are relatively cheaply priced compared to the PS3, they both already have a decently sized library of games. The 360 is good for more traditional console titles like FPS games, Fighters and so on. But the Wii is good for party stuff and games with a unique interface. Plus, the Wii has the bonus of being able to link up to the DS Lite for additional features, so if you've got one of those as well all the better.

The Wii is cheaper and appeals to casual gamers as well. My parents will play Wii Sports (free with the system) and my friend Chris's girlfriend (who absolutely HATES video games) plays Wii Tennis with us non-stop. The Wii has a serious chance of bringing console gaming to the masses, but right now it's in it's infancy. There's just no real games right now, but that's moot as finding one in stock that isn't $400US would be hard.

The only thing I can see hurting it is the lack of HD, but that's not an issue for everyone. It'll do 480p with the S-video or component cable though (which I finally got on order).

If you want the ability to stand up while gaming and actually move something more than your thumbs, the Wii is a good choice. You can also use an old Gamecube controller and play Gamecube games. Granted, with the wireless Wii-motes, I had forgotten just how short the GC controller cables are. I'm going to need extensions.

PS: Zelda and Metroid.

The 360 (as said) is already an established console. The XBlive marketplace is jam packed with content. It's nice to finally be able to try out demos on a console. It's made game-selection easy without resorting to a rental membership.

The interface is clean (but as said, lacks a browser). You can plug a USB keyboard in for typing, but not gaming. Personally, I can't stand the Wii browser. I know it's in beta, but it's grainy, slow, and lacks keyboard support. I'll stick with my laptop.

It doubles as a DVD player and you can buy the HD-DVD player add-on for $200. Not a big deal right now.

The game selection is pretty large. I haven't noticed anything stellar in the RPG market, but there's tons of action,FPS, and sports games. You can't play ALL the old Xbox games on it, but there's a large list of them you can.

The PS3... is well.. a cheap Blu-ray player. Other than that, I don't know much more about it. I doubt the price is going to drop anytime soon and I don't know what they worked out for the PSX and PS2 emulation. But it suffers from the same issues as the Wii: it's still in it's infancy when it comes to games and content.

The PS2 might be old, but the graphics are still decent. You do get a lot of "jaggies" with the games when using an HD TV (Guitar Hero 2 let's you run 480p which cleans it up though). You've also got the advantage of having years worth of games to pick up for cheap.

It's really just too early to say anything concrete about the Wii and PS3. The PS2 ended up with a huge library of Action/RPG and RPG games for it. Right now, the 360 seems more FPS and action games.

I'm gonna buy a X-box 360 for the sole reason that Mass Effect is looking like it's gonna be a great RPG.

If you're looking to actually play the system in question, the 360 is the only real option, but that's because the others are too new to have a decent selection, yet.

If you want to use the thing to play games at any point before the back end of this summer, then you will need an Xbox 360. The others do not have the game libraries at this time.

Specifically what interests me about the PS3 (that the others lack) is that it allows a Linux installation, and that makes it more of a general purpose system. However, the Wii is also interesting for the same reason, in that you can download Opera for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the X Box 360 does not have any of that functionality.

However, what scares me about both the PS3 and the Wii is availibility. Do any of you have any information about what I'd likely be facing in terms of that?

Also note that I do not own a handheld gaming device (such as the PSP or the DS) and have no interest in getting one.

Thanks again for your replies!

Linux on the Cell is likely to be a painful proposition.

I'd say a Wii or PS2, from the criteria you say are important to you. Wait a little bit on the PS2 if you decide on it though, a price cut should be imminent.

What are the advantages to having an operating system on a console? Seems somewhat pointless to me.

Well, if you're going to spend a few hundred on what amounts to a fully functional computer system, it makes sense to be able to use that system for more than just gaming. Additionally, consoles have interesting attributes in terms of their internal architecture that would be enjoyable to explore (to the extent possible) from a technical and UI perspective.

RThurmont wrote:Specifically what interests me about the PS3 (that the others lack) is that it allows a Linux installation, and that makes it more of a general purpose system. However, the Wii is also interesting for the same reason, in that you can download Opera for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the X Box 360 does not have any of that functionality.

It seems a bit pointless to get a gaming system if your main reason for buying it isn't the actual gaming aspect, which is what it's built for. . .but that's just me.

However, what scares me about both the PS3 and the Wii is availibility. Do any of you have any information about what I'd likely be facing in terms of that?

The PS3 is laughably widely available due to lack of demand now that everyone realizes what a shitty system it is. The Wii is a good deal more scarce, but it's the superior candidate for gaming quality and nowhere as buggy. Especially if you're only a casual gamer. The 360 shouldn't have any availability issues of either though.

General Zod wrote:

RThurmont wrote:Specifically what interests me about the PS3 (that the others lack) is that it allows a Linux installation, and that makes it more of a general purpose system. However, the Wii is also interesting for the same reason, in that you can download Opera for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the X Box 360 does not have any of that functionality.

It seems a bit pointless to get a gaming system if your main reason for buying it isn't the actual gaming aspect, which is what it's built for. . .but that's just me.

At $650, the PS3 would make a fantastic high definition capable home theater PC. You can build yourself a machine at $650, but small form factor in addition to not being fugly? That's pushing it.

I wholeheartedly believe that once Sony gets its head out of its ass and drops the PS3 to a sensible $400-$450, home brew linux media center capabilities will take off in a big way.

Edit: fixed tags.

EnsGabe wrote:

General Zod wrote:

RThurmont wrote:Specifically what interests me about the PS3 (that the others lack) is that it allows a Linux installation, and that makes it more of a general purpose system. However, the Wii is also interesting for the same reason, in that you can download Opera for it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the X Box 360 does not have any of that functionality.

It seems a bit pointless to get a gaming system if your main reason for buying it isn't the actual gaming aspect, which is what it's built for. . .but that's just me.

At $650, the PS3 would make a fantastic high definition capable home theater PC. You can build yourself a machine at $650, but small form factor in addition to not being fugly? That's pushing it.

I wholeheartedly believe that once Sony gets its head out of its ass and drops the PS3 to a sensible $400-$450, home brew linux media center capabilities will take off in a big way.

Edit: fixed tags.

If the only reason to buy a gaming system is as a cheap home theater system, then what the fuck is the use in advertising it as a gaming system in the first place?

General Zod wrote:

EnsGabe wrote:

General Zod wrote: It seems a bit pointless to get a gaming system if your main reason for buying it isn't the actual gaming aspect, which is what it's built for. . .but that's just me.

At $650, the PS3 would make a fantastic high definition capable home theater PC. You can build yourself a machine at $650, but small form factor in addition to not being fugly? That's pushing it.

I wholeheartedly believe that once Sony gets its head out of its ass and drops the PS3 to a sensible $400-$450, home brew linux media center capabilities will take off in a big way.

Edit: fixed tags.

If the only reason to buy a gaming system is as a cheap home theater system, then what the fuck is the use in advertising it as a gaming system in the first place?

It's not the only reason. It just so happens to be a good one ON TOP OF whatever merits it has as a game system, because the two uses are not mutually exclusive.

EnsGabe wrote:
It's not the only reason. It just so happens to be a good one ON TOP OF whatever merits it has as a game system, because the two uses are not mutually exclusive.

Then why is it that every single recommendation I hear in favor of the PS3 almost always involves speaking praises about the hardware but hardly a peep of the actual game playing aspect? Which is the main reason people should be interested in it in the first place?

General Zod wrote:

EnsGabe wrote:
It's not the only reason. It just so happens to be a good one ON TOP OF whatever merits it has as a game system, because the two uses are not mutually exclusive.

Then why is it that every single recommendation I hear in favor of the PS3 almost always involves speaking praises about the hardware but hardly a peep of the actual game playing aspect? Which is the main reason people should be interested in it in the first place?

Here's a thought: different people can have different wants.

Sony crowing about how 'powerful' their hardware is is nothing new: they were definitely harping on the supreme power of the Emotion Engine on the PS2 and how it would be able to render Toy Story in real time. Sony doesn't have a strong first party development team (compared to Nintendo and Microsoft) so they are preaching as much to the developers as they are to the consumers when they talk about how powerful the system is.

As for why purchasers and would-be purchasers crow about the hardware wrt the game console itself, I have no idea. Perhaps some deep-seated belief that pixies will come with the system to cure them of their ills?

I'm interested in a low profile, relatively low power HD home theater setup. Don't mistake that for me saying the PS3 is a fantastic game console- I'm doing nothing of the sort. I'm saying it has the potential to fill a need of mine, and nothing more. I'm casting no judgment on its value as a game console.

PS: I'm about 70% sure that I've seen Sony themselves advertising the strengths of the PS3 as a home media center. I'll hunt down references to it.

EnsGabe wrote:I wholeheartedly believe that once Sony gets its head out of its ass and drops the PS3 to a sensible $400-$450, home brew linux media center capabilities will take off in a big way.

Too bad that's not really a very profitable direction for Sony. You don't make a video game console so people can buy it and not use it to play games.

EnsGabe wrote: Here's a thought: different people can have different wants.

People who can afford to regularly upgrade their home entertainment systems aren't going to settle for getting a measly gaming system that happens to play hi-def media. And the hardcore gaming crowd isn't going to be satisfied on the ability to play hi-def alone. Notice the number of returns of PS3's to the stores and resells on eBay. Considering Sony's taking a loss for every unit sold, and how expensive it is to develop for, I'm not sure how anyone can consider their hardware decisions to be a good move. . .

RThurmont wrote:Well, if you're going to spend a few hundred on what amounts to a fully functional computer system, it makes sense to be able to use that system for more than just gaming. Additionally, consoles have interesting attributes in terms of their internal architecture that would be enjoyable to explore (to the extent possible) from a technical and UI perspective.

To be blunt, unless you feel like doing low-level DSP-esque programming with the Cell's SPEs, I don't think it'd be worth your time.

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

EnsGabe wrote:I wholeheartedly believe that once Sony gets its head out of its ass and drops the PS3 to a sensible $400-$450, home brew linux media center capabilities will take off in a big way.

Too bad that's not really a very profitable direction for Sony. You don't make a video game console so people can buy it and not use it to play games.

Woop de doo- I could not care less. The success of PS3 as a platform for Sony only peripherally effects my interests, namely in maintaining the availability of PS3 to me and others who can/want to program for it.

Regarding the OP: I just can't get enough of my house mate's Wii. Wii Sports has become a daily ritual for the four of us, trying to outdo each other in the various full games of the sports and the various trainings. Rayman Ravin' Rabbids was also an entertaining social game. I'll admit that there's not much in the way of substantive single player entertainment for Wii titles. Being backward compatible with the Gamecube opens up the prospect of diving into prior titles you hadn't played before to tide you over.

Regarding Opera's Wii Browser: I haven't really been struck by it. Yes, it's neato, but I haven't found much occasion to use it for anything substantial (save one specific use, which I'll get to in a bit.) The closest thing is being able to play mouse-only flash games, and that got boring real quick. What it boils down to is this: if you've got internet in your house, you're likely to already have a computer more suited for browsing than the Wii. Just use it.

The WIZ-BANG I referenced earlier was a clever use of the Wii Browser to turn the Wii into a makeshift media center. If you've got 1) some pre-downloaded videos you'd like to watch and 2) a fairly beefy desktop/server in your home connected to the home network, you can set up WiiCR to transcode the videos to flash videos on the fly for viewing. It's not too hard to set-up, especially for you, RThurmont. There's enough info on the boards there to get you set up, if you so desire. The best part: you don't need a Wii to set it up or test it . It just sets up a site you can browse to on your machine (which, by the way, is butt-ugly on a computer monitor but suprisingly good-looking on a TV.)[/url]

General Zod wrote:

EnsGabe wrote: Here's a thought: different people can have different wants.

People who can afford to regularly upgrade their home entertainment systems aren't going to settle for getting a measly gaming system that happens to play hi-def media. And the hardcore gaming crowd isn't going to be satisfied on the ability to play hi-def alone. Notice the number of returns of PS3's to the stores and resells on eBay. Considering Sony's taking a loss for every unit sold, and how expensive it is to develop for, I'm not sure how anyone can consider their hardware decisions to be a good move. . .

Why are you shoving words in my mouth? 'Regularly upgrade their home entertainment systems'? Where did I intimate anything of the sort? Why should RThurmont care about Sony's ability to move PS3's off the shelf? What does the hardcore gaming crowd have to do with any of this?

It seems to me like you're arguing about which system is going to win the console wars, which is irrelevant to the OP. The PS3 has hardware capabilities I'm interested in, and Linux on the PS3 tickles RThurmont's fancy. What's the problem?

RThurmont wrote:I thought I'd pose a question to the users of this board. I am, at present, strongly considering getting a gaming console, but am having a devil of a time deciding which one I'd like to get. So I thought I'd ask you guys for help in making the final decision.

What I'm interested in in a console is a system that offers interesting gameplay from a UI perspective, and at the same time ideally has some additional functionality. I'm really interested in both the PS3 and the Wii, as the former allows Linux installations, and the latter allows the download of my personal favorite web browser (Opera). However, the high price of the former, and the various criticisms thereof, and the availibility issues surrounding both have me a bit perplexed.

The XBox 360 seems like a well rounded option, but what scares me away from it is the lack of a web browser, and the fact that I know one of its developers, and can't stand him (I figure its better to use products developed by companies whose employees I actually like). There is also the PS2, which I would be more interested in were its Linux kits not "permanently out of stock." However, it is dirt cheap, and seems to be extremely readily availible.

Thoughts?

Frankly; web browsing on a console is not really that good. The PS3's browser sucks because, well, you're using a joystick. You can install Linux and plug in a USB mouse and set the PS3 up on a desk, but that sorta defeats the purpose of a console.

The Wii's browser has been released in beta and is not really full featured (i.e. no tabs, you can only look at one website at once) and you have to use an onscreen keyboard so it's usually faster to just use a PC. However, the Wiimote is a very usable mouse replacement.

The 'additional functionality' is usually just thrown in on the side and nowhere near as good as on a regular PC, on any of the consoles; I usually just ignore it in the decision.


If you want interesting and unique gameplay, get a Wii. If you traditional games with better graphics, get an XBox 360 or PS3.

Do you have an HDTV? If so PS3 or 360 will look significantly better only because Wii maxes out at 480p.


Personally, I have a Wii, and I LOVE it. I also intend to install Linux on it as soon as people have gotten it working (I've put Linux on my DS, and there is already a working GameCube build of Linux; and the Wii has an SD card port so it'll be easy to get it on there).