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You know, to be honest, I've never quite understood the draw of roleplaying in the 40K universe, but here you go.

Enjoy.

They might as well only have 1 playable race, its not like there will be more than a handful of non-space marines

Oh, that will be good. Finally a WH40K MMORPG.

Words cannot express my joy.

Now, it just has to not suck. Time will tell.

InnocentBystander wrote:They might as well only have 1 playable race, its not like there will be more than a handful of non-space marines

Tell me about it.

Were I to play I'd probably go with Imperial Guard of some variety, but I swore off MMOGs and I'm sticking to that.

Frankly, if they've learned anything from when they made Inquisitor, Space Marines should be NPCs and not available to players.
When Inquisitor (40K RPG kinda thing) came out, there were masses of people saying Space Marines were over powered. They weren't, they were just an actual depiction of what Space Marines are from the fluff, and not from the more balanced game play idea of 40K. But naturally the power gamers didn't pick up on what Inquisitor is about (telling a good story more than winning) and picked their uber poweful inquisitor and a space marine that makes him look like a chump in the same team, leading the people playing the game as it was meant to to complain that marines were overpowered. But that's another rant.

So if you leave them in the game for players you have two options as far as i can think of:

1) Balance them and completely destroy them fluff wise. The elite, genetically modified, best of the best soldiers worth at least 10 normal humans are reduced to par with the rest of the galaxy for the sake of balance.

2) Keep them as they are meant to be, and watch every power gamer go for them because they are more powerful than just about everyone else.

As another agument against them, they're just don't fit that well with a typical RPG set up. Space Marines spend their days either in combat, or training and praying to the emperor. They don't run around various towns looking for odd jobs to do, they remain in seclusion until they're called in to bring the hammer down.

Most people in 40K don't even see a space marine, only hears stories about the legendary "angels of death". So IMO they should keep that in the game. Have your imperial guardsman fight a battle (Quest: Hold the Line! (group)) against some orks, slowly losing and then just as the battle is about to be lost WHAM! Drop pods come down and those lvl60 elite orks you were having trouble with are cut to pieces by the 'angels of death'

That's my opinion on space marines, keep them rare, keep them NPCs.

That's my opinion on space marines, keep them rare, keep them NPCs.

I have a better idea. Make Space Marines accessible as an option to super-elite players Sort of a realism - elite players form the elite forces

Stas Bush wrote:I have a better idea. Make Space Marines accessible as an option to super-elite players Sort of a realism - elite players form the elite forces

Such an approach is generally made of Fail. Look at SWG and their handling of Jedi.

If I were in charge, I'd make Space Marines reasonably close to their fluff incarnation (like Inquisitor) and also make them playable -- but it'd be viciously demanding. They'd have to start as neophytes and work their way up in a series of brutally difficult challenges, with a much slower character progression than "core" professions such as Guardsman or Arbiter or Hive Ganger or whatever. I'd also segregate the Marines from other (Imperial) players until end-game content for the most part, in addition to a simple restriction of one Marine (at a time) per account, or even adopt a more cynical, meta-game approach and make a Marine character "cost" multiple character slots (most MMOs only allow a certain number of character per account, and in this scenario playing a Marine would mean less total characters that could be played at any one time by a given player).

Finally, institute some strict and rigid code of conduct in game, ideally one that be enforced automatically. Certain requirements in-game, or things of that nature. For example, one might have a "Loyal-o-meter" that goes up or down depending on random quests given to the player and consequences of actions - refusing a quest or performing certain negative actions might lower the meter, and if it drops too low, harsh penalties begin to pile on quickly, up to and including Inquisitorial scrutiny or Excommunication.

In short, make playing a Space Marine require not only demanding in terms of time and effort, but also require "fluffiness." The theory being it will weed out many of the "1337 d00dz", powergamers, or those with only a passing interest in the fluff of Marines. If you're one of those or a more casual gamer (and I often tend to be a casual MMOer myself), that's fine -- just don't play a Marine, as it should be reserved for those only really dedicated to it.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:snip

intresting concept but really hard (if even possible) to make practical, also the ultra rigid form of SM life style would mean 99.9% of quests from SM would be done in groups of 5 or more (not mention that 80% of those would be PvP).

frankly the most practical solution is to make the Space Marines NPCs (quest givers, maybe guards in some locations)

InnocentBystander wrote:They might as well only have 1 playable race, its not like there will be more than a handful of non-space marines

Waaagh Master Krush: Okay guys, now, I know many of the Guild Chapters of the Imperium outnumber us, but, I've scheduled a fight with the lowest ranking and smallest Space Marine Guild, so we should be good...
Leet Shootah: Are you sure? I mean we ARE the biggest Orc guild and there's only a little over two dozen of us.
Boss Boi: Dude, if they're the smallest Guild we can take 'em

-Five Minutes Later-
Boss Boi: By the Gods man my chat is filled with nothing but damage read outs, we can't get any text based messages through!
Leet Shootah: WHY?! There's twenty of them for every one us?!
Waaagh Master Krush: God Hates Me Doesn't He?!

Random Space Marine: Lawlz U R rite, t3h G30M dos h8 j00, Roflmao!

That's the whole game!

Can't wait for it to come out. I was recently thinking about a WH40k MMO.

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote: Good Ideas

snipped for ease of reading.


I agree, if they make marines as PCs, force the player to start as a scout and have to work through many many levels to get to marine level. If it's a 60 lvl game like WoW, make a person sweat through the first 40 levels as a scout, then when they hit 40 they get basic marine gear - armor and a bolter. From there they can then become a specialist at lvl 50, special weapon, devastator or assault marine. At level 60 you make sgt and get to wait for an expansion.

For the other races/classes it can be done to balance out against a marine. For imperial guard, play it like the master mind class in CoV. Start out small, but as you level up, you get troops to command. By level 60 to could be in charge of a squad of men, including heavy and special weapons. An Inquisitor could be similar, level up and gain a retinue of followers and different psychic powers. Chaos would be fun, start as a heretic and level up to become either a dark messiah figure, sorcerer, or a chaos marine, but leave an option that if you fail too many quests, you become a chaos spawn. Eldar could be very fun, set them up to have a tree instead of classes, every few levels you can take a different branch and learn new skills as a new "class" or stay on your current branch and become more powerful in that class, trade off being the higher you go, the less able you are to move from that path. Orks, start out as one of the boys and try to level up to be a warlord, could have the horde of followers approch, or just make the orks fluffy and have the top end guys can take a marine on in HtH.

The tough part I see is getting the game to be gray. Granted a marine running around with his tau buddy is not very realistic, but and Inquisitor might team with some xeno scum if needs be. To make that standard good side bad side division would hamper the game too much in my opinion.

And it goes that Nids would have to be right out as a playable race.

If they have space marines as playable, or give space marine armor for quest/raid rewards, expect to see dozens of people hanging around in Terminator Armor lolzing to wtfpwns.

Just had to share, from RGMW

Everyone wants to be a Space Marine, but you know you'll wind up
spending hours harvesting the flora in order to farm gold..er..credits
or something. I have a different plan.

I want to be...an Adeptus Tech!

Leaping from tank to tank, as they drive across the grand battlefields
of the Imperium. The Giant Baneblade. The Rhino. Conqueror! The mighty
Leman Russ! The longbarreled Vanquisher! The plucky little cyclops!
The grinding landraider! The various non-canon conveyances of the
novels!

With my servitors by my side, we'd sing! Sing! Sing!

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I'm an Adeptus tech and I'm OK
I recharge all night and I fix all day

(Servitors)
+++HE IS AN ADEPTUS TECH, AND HE IS OK
HE RECHARGES AT NIGHT AND FIXES ALL DAY+++

I fix a tank. I eat my lunch.
Prayer's oblig'tory
At Matins I do maintenance
And put oil in my knees

(Servitors)
+++HE FIXES TANKS. HE CONSUMES HIS FUEL
PRAYERS ARE OBLIGITORY
AT MATINS HE DOES MAINTENANCE
AND PUTS OIL IN HIS KNEES

HE IS AN ADEPTUS TECH, AND HE IS OK
HE RECHARGES AT NIGHT AND FIXES ALL DAY+++

I fix some tanks. I whirr and groan
I like to press Xenos flowers
I put on Sister armor
And go to spaceport bars

(Servitors)
+++HE FIXES TANKS. HE WHIRRS AND GROANS.
HE LIKES TO PRESS XENOS FLOWERS
HE PUTS ON A SISTERS ARMOR
AND GOES TO SPACEPORT BARS++?SYNTAX ERROR?+++

I fix those tanks. I wear makeup
leather straps, and a claw.
I wish I'd been a Daemonette
Just like my dear Papa

Join the Guard and get shot to bits by every man and his dog!
Unless it's set up like the Mastermind from City of Heroes. Basically, the Mastermind himself isn't stunning in combat, but he spawns a small army around himself to keep himself company. That would work nicely here, I think.

There are so many ways a W40k MMORPG could be ruined, I don't have high hopes that this will work. The primary problem is that when developers are handed a franchise, they often figure the brand will sell itself so they don't have to work that hard. Hopefully, Star Wars Galaxies has taught them that this isn't true.

On the plus side, at least there will be plenty to do, since the various 40k races are always fighting somebody at any point in time.

Just thought of something relating to possible Inquisitor characters: make it so either the players are very good at it, or they're very dead. And "good" includes investigation skills and interacting with people, not just being an uber power-gamer.

Speaking of power-gamers, it would be very much in the spirit of 40k if no mattter how 1337 you are, there's always the chance of something really nasty showing-up and slaughtering you. Like for example, you and your Chaos army manage to take a planet from the Imperium, and the Imperial Navy just goes "fuck it" and bombards the place into oblivion.

I think it would make more sense if only admins were inquisitors. That way, even high level players can be caught by an Inquisitor calling in virus bombs.

Yeah, Space Marines really aren't going to work as playable characters unless they make massive handicaps early on. I mean really, even Space Marine Scouts will slaughter Guardsmen in hand to hand, or ranged, or anything else.

Inquisitors are marginally more possible than SMs. Marginally. Any psykers, including inquisitors, should be penalized heavily at the beginning, just so powergamers don't flock to them. Stuff like, a random chance to be possessed, for no reason at all. The probability goes up when near Chaos. Heck, even make it a chaotic spell: increase chance of possession.

Me? I want to be a Commissar or a Kasrkin!

This news both excites and terrifies me, because, as has been said, there is so much that can be done right, but so very, very much that can be done wrong. The biggest problem is that the characters that people will want to play the most are also the ones hardest to implement and balance. There will be complaints if people can't play Space Marines, and probably to a lesser extent Inquisitors, but there will also be severe complaints if they can't make it so that people who don't want to play those characters can't keep up.

One idea that might work but would be a bitch to do properly, would be a sort of semi-classless path based system. It would work like this:

Everyone starts as a human (Eldar and Ork players can wait until the expansion and the Tau can go watch anime or something). Everyone starts as a hiver punk wearing scraps and fighting with bent pipes and black powder pistols. You spend your first ten levels or so gaining power and reputation with either the Imperial or Chaos factions before the first secondary paths start opening up. Haven't thought too hard about the way Chaos might work, but for Imperials it might be something roughly like this:

Level 10- Guardsman Trainee
Level 15- Inquisitorial Lackey, Ad Mech Initiate
Level 20- Space Marines Initiate, Adepta Sororitas Initiate

Once you get your primary path, you must undergo a training period whereby your options are severely limited and you must spend your points purchasing certain set abilities and completing specific quests in order to move on to the next stage of your path. Here are the two kickers though; the sooner you enter a path, the shorter it is, and the more room you have to customize your character. Thus a guard trainee might be a full fledged Guardsman at level 20 with a variety of skills like perhpas stealth, heavy weapons operation, or maybe some form of leadership, while a Space Marine only gets out of Initiate/Scout status at level 40 (incidentally, 20 to 40 works well because with 18 implants you can require a class specific quest nearly each level).

Once you complete your primary path, you can then move into secondary, possibly even tertiary paths. So with a 60 level cap, a Guardsman can go through multiple secondary paths or specialize by going through a tertiary path, while a Space Marine can maybe get in one or two secondaries and no tertiaries. This can in turn help as a balancing issue, so you can get things like:

GUi11m0nF0reVaH: D00d! i jut got termie armor!!!111!!1 SO SW33T!!11!1 g0nna PWn al u gayurd n00bs
Sword of the Imperium: Congratulations. I just picked up my Leman Russ Commander certification and my Baneblade Co-Pilot certification
General Bob: I just levelled up my Call in Mortar Barrage to Call in Earthshaker Barrage
GUi11m0nF0reVaH: O_0

Which brings up another thing I think they could do if handled properly, which is vehicles. While tricky to do and balance, it could work such that as you level up your piloting skill or whatever, you gain access to better vehicles and the capacity to drive lower level vehicles more indepedently. So say you start off with Chimera Co-Pilot so you can drive the tank, but not fire the guns at the same time, so you need another player to team up with, plus as a transport you're better off with a team or someone who can summon "pets" (ie. someone who is taking the command/leadership path). Level up the ability and you might start getting things like Co-Pilot Hellhound, Command Chimera (ie you no longer need another player to get the full use out of the tank, but if you're good players the difference between a human and the AI might be enough to tell win the day), etc. While troop transport vehicles you could "summon" with just one person, the bigger tanks you would be unable to use without having enough crew first. Thus say a Leman Russ would require four people to use, with say one guy driver and one man per gun plus the ability to affect minor repairs or other miscellaneous tasks so that you're not just stuck shooting all the time, until someone picks up something like Leman Russ Head Gunner and takes up two "slots". Alternatively, you could fill up a slot with a Techpriest who while not as good with the guns could repair more damage and faster and buff the tank. Almost literally in fact if you think about it.

And then for the Inquisitor, that would be probably retinue heavy and thus have lots of different "leadership" things, plus Inquisitors are the ones most likely to have psychic powers, but with options for things like Interrogation (not sure how to implement that in a MMO, but it might be something like a skill that opens up new quest paths) or Deep Cover, which I think would be interesting, in that it would let you assume an alternate identity so that you could infiltrate the Chaos side. So let's say you have quest "Kill Chaos Champion X". A small party of Space Marines or Battle Sisters could just rush in and fight there way through the enemy surrounding the target before defeating the foe in close combat, Guardsman might have to form a large party and pummel the area at a distance with tanks and artillery before sending in hordes of players and attached pets, but an Inquisitor could assume an alternate identity, gain the trust of the other side, and then when their buddies and their retinue are causing havoc far away and the Champion is distracted, you put a bolt in his head and then walk away. Of course, there is always the risk you'll get shot by your own side in the process, and the things you do to gain the trust of the enemy might displease some of your more conservative colleagues, but that's part of the risk you take.

I suppose the final balancing and fluff factor I can think up is markets. The more powerful characters like Space Marines only get one "market", their armoury, to keep the auction houses from being filled with power armour clad superhumans. I suppose it might look something like this:

Imperial Guard- access to armoury, Imperial marketplace, and black market (but take reputation penalties for buying and selling proscribed items)
Adeptus Mechanicus- access to workshops, Imperial marketplace, and black market (same problem as the Imperial Guard)
Inquisition- access to armoury, Imperial marketplace, black market (lowered penalties because Inquisitors can get away with shit, and none if you use Deep Cover) and Chaos marketplace if you use Deep Cover (but you might not like the path you go down in those places)
Space Marines/Adepta Sororitas- armoury

This would also create some interesting options with the spoils of war. Say you're a Guard and you captured an awesome piece of gear, but its Chaos corrupted. Protocol states you should hand it into the armoury where it can be taken care of. You might get a pat on the back, but not much. On the other hand, you can get a shit pile of money if you sell it on the black market, but if you're caught, you're in for all kinds of hurt.

Of course, all of this brings up how to balance the Imperium/Chaos spectrum, but I'll leave that for some other time.

They will with little doubt make Marines playable. If they go the Jedi route of SW:Galaxies and try to make them artificially scarce and penalizing it will fail. Going the route of online RPG would also be a bad idea, being a generic one would be fatal. Warhammer Age of Reckoning seems to be progressing well with its deviations from the standard MMORPG template, but its setting is a bit more protagonist and inclusive of various types of free-roaming adventurers.

In practical terms, it would have to be one of two things: For one, the game could stick to focusing on just Marines engaging in battles with a few other types of 'other big guys' (Genestealers, Necrons, Tyranid Warriors, Orks, Eldar Aspects, and perhaps Battle Sisters could likely be reasonably tweaked) like some kind of mix of Planetside and Space Hulk.

Otherwise, particularly if they expect to include non-monstrous PC types in the game, combat needs to take a back seat compared to most MMOs, omitting the competitive functions and faction-centric overworld warfare that would make the likely 85% Marine populace horribly glaring.

In that sense it would be limited to instanced theaters of warfare with population caps and NPCs thrown in for good measure, where each faction/army type has their own goals and scale of combat; A Tau player (whether he's a basic grunt or a veteran with his own Crisis Suit) joins and is ordered to help a bunch of Firewarrior PCs and NPCs attack a frontline, a Guardsmen player group defend the line or man the artillery (vets might have bigger jobs, an officer might command a tank), A marine blitzes a bunker, Eldar Fire Dragons takes on the vehicles, Howling Banshees gang up on Marines, etc.

At the end of the battle, everyone tallies up their kills and achievements according to their roles. A Marine kills 10 Guardsmen and it's not much for his record, a Tau kills that many and he gets mad xp or honors. A Dark Reaper kills 10 and he should have been focusing on their damn Leman Russ tanks.

Incidentally, I find this statement to be of far more interest:

We are thrilled with the success of the Dawn of War franchise, and while we have nothing specific to announce at this time, we look forward to building on that franchise in the future

sweet.

DoW2 on the CoH engine, anyone?

Academia Nut wrote:GUi11m0nF0reVaH: D00d! i jut got termie armor!!!111!!1 SO SW33T!!11!1 g0nna PWn al u gayurd n00bs
Sword of the Imperium: Congratulations. I just picked up my Leman Russ Commander certification and my Baneblade Co-Pilot certification
General Bob: I just levelled up my Call in Mortar Barrage to Call in Earthshaker Barrage
GUi11m0nF0reVaH: O_0

I rather like this idea - Marine players might max out as a supremely deadly super-warrior... but that's all they'll ever be. Meanwhile the rest are commanding squads, platoons, companies, retinues, and all manner of military, social, and bureaucratic support. In theory it would mean only those who find Marines genuinely interesting would gravitate toward the role.

EDIT: Though to be perfectly fair, in your example it's quite likely a true-to-fluff Terminator would shrug off the Earthshaker barrage and tear ragged holes in the Baneblade and its crew.

Actually, if you go the MM Route (I'll use Mercs for the basis), the Space Marine should, if we're following fluff, be able take on three of these Mastermind/Imperial Guardsman+their squad (A Commando, 2 Spec Forces, and 3 Grunts) and have parity, personally, I like this in addition to making playing an SM require large amounts of time invested into the character.

I wonder if they'll implement Titans. There's no way that can possibly be fair, though it would be hilarious to watch power-gaming kiddies with uber Terminator armour get plastered.

There's also the fleet of gigantic space cathedrals the Imperium calls its Navy. I mean, one dude at the helm of a destroyer can glass an army all by himself. There would have to be a way to discipline warship captains who engage in unsanctioned collateral damage.

Titans? Imperium Battleships? Ha! Fat chance.