Is Stalker an RPG?

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Stark
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Is Stalker an RPG?

Post by Stark »

I see many places referring to Stalker as an FPS/RPG. Does this make any sense? The elements of RPG play found in Stalker are more 'adventure game' than 'RPG', and it totally excludes core 'RPG' ideas like stats and levelling. It's a shooter that isn't linear.

On the other hand, it can be compared to System Shock 2, which is probably more 'RPG'-like than Stalker, having a stat system. What do you think?
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Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

I reject the idea that a game needs to have a stat system to be an RPG. I think a lot of RPG's would have been better without one. Deus Ex and System Shock 2 both spring to mind.
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Post by Stark »

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:I reject the idea that a game needs to have a stat system to be an RPG. I think a lot of RPG's would have been better without one. Deus Ex and System Shock 2 both spring to mind.
But this is what I'm getting at: Deus Ex and SS2 aren't RPGs. I really mean 'computer role playing game', like Fallout or Oblivion. They're shooters with a bit of flexibility.

I strongly oppose the idea that anything more complicated than Doom or Halo is automatically an RPG/FPS. Stalker has an open environment, and inventory screen, etc (just like SS2)... and I don't think this makes it anything like a regular computer role playing game.

It's worth asking how differently people play Stalker. Do people play it like Oblivion, getting quests and raising rep and working the 'hidden' stats etc? Or do they wander around having firefights and exploring? As soon as you have an inventory system (like Quake 2) are you instantly an RPG?
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Post by loomer »

I'd call STALKER more an... FPS/Adventure than an FPS/RPG. You go around with an inventory, but let's face it, you're not really placed in a truly immersive world (Though it can be such at times.) It's just as good as an RPG or regular FPS or Adventure game, but in its own, individual way. I'd call SS2 much the same, though horror and sci-fi themed, and more RPGish due to the immersive nature of the universe.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Can you play dress-up doll with the player character? I think that's where the line is drawn now, considering Oblivion and Monster Hunter are frequently classified as CRPGs.
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Post by Stark »

Why would Oblivion not be classed as an RPG? It's got all the RPG stuff, it's played like an RPG.
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Is Zelda a CRPG? I guess I'm not entirely clear on the genre's definition myself.
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Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

I don't think anyone is. It's like the distinction between terrorist and freedom fighter. But I do think that STALKER's open-ended exploration, collection of items, quests and sub-quests, and branching dialogue should qualify it as an RPG.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Zelda is an adventure game.

STALKER has RPG elements. But not enough to be included in the genre.
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Post by LaserRifleofDoom »

It better not be no stinkin' RPG, or I won't be able to play it!
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Post by Darth Raptor »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:Zelda is an adventure game.
And so the jumping around and physical puzzles separate Zelda from Oblivion?
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Post by Fingolfin_Noldor »

Jedi Knight was kinda like a shooter with RPG elements, especially Dark Forces 2. Inventory and puzzles etc.

Plus, force stars and hidden locations.
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Post by Covenant »

CRPG generally refer to computer RPG, distinguishing them from the mass of Final Fantasy ripoffs that pass for actual RPGs on a console nowadways.

Zelda is an Adventure Game because you run around, collect shit, and use it to blow up a boss. There's no roleplaying elements, you're completely on a rail, and the only type of character advancement you get is based on finding things or completing tasks.

Granted, that IS rather close to what you do in a modern Final Fantasy game, but what defines those games as RPGs is the character advancement model. When people mention "RPG elements" they usually mean attribtues, skills, and other permanent character things you can pump up as a result of getting XP or other bonuses.

...

So, a game where you follow gameplay that is based in story progression, mash up badguys to gain intangible advantages that can be levereged into tangible ones, and have a degree of character customization through advancement is an RPG. These games generally allow for non-linear progression in some parts at least, allowing the story to change dynamically with your choices (Gotta wait for Shadow!) and giving at least some illusion of player guided character actions.

An RPG where you do that, but generally have control of dialogue options, character creation as well as advancement, and play it on a computer is a CRPG. These games generally utilize the greater storage capacity of the computer, at least in bygone days, to allow greatly for more divergence in terms of plot and more open-ended objectives. Games like Fallout are a good example, as you can skip the entire 'game' and do whatever the hell you want, sometimes even heading to the 'final' zone right off the bat.

An RPG where you have no control over character advancement, rarely any control over character creation, and gameplay is based in puzzles and the progression of in-character ability (getting the morph ball, finding the fire arrows, etc) is an Adventure Game. They also, generally, do away with dialogue and have all speech merely directions for your next objective. The most notable feature is, however, the emphasis on collections and discovery. When people mention 'adventure game elements', they generally refer to hidden items you need to assemble. Elder Scrolls games include several adventure elements this way. Adventure games also put a higher emphasis on button dexterity, whereas RPGs generally let you even pause combats and choose actions from a list rather than do it manually.

An Adventure game where the gameplay is based in combat puzzles (how do I kill this pair of ogres?) and nearly all advancement is either instantly tangible (picking up a new sword or a potion) or intangible but solely drawn from action (red orbs in DMC) are Beat-Em-Ups or Hack-n-Slash or whatever games. It's the same basic premise--you walk along the 'rail' as the game guides you, you get some cutscenes and character development and solve puzzles. However, in many cases the Hack game's puzzles will take the form of unusual monsters, seemingly impossible battles that require clever thinking, or collecting items from things that are hard to kill rather than finding them in areas that are hard to find. Basically, it goes from being an Adventure game to a Hack game when zones are basically just corridors full of monsters, and all the puzzles bleed when you attack them.
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Post by Stark »

Fingolfin_Noldor wrote:Jedi Knight was kinda like a shooter with RPG elements, especially Dark Forces 2. Inventory and puzzles etc.

Plus, force stars and hidden locations.
Ah, but puzzles and inventory are in unabashed shooters like Quake 2. I don't really see Stalker as being as 'questy' as Oblivion, for instance - no multi-stage quests, just the main plot 'save the world' and a pile of very short goals like 'open door a' 'get foozle here' etc, just like DOOM 'find the key' 'press the button' stuff.

I like Cov's post - it mirrors my ideas on why I feel Stalker is more of an 'adventure' than 'RPG', just like Dreamfall (with inventory, quests etc) is an adventure.

I've seen some REAL stupid reasons for Stalker to be an 'RPG' elsewhere - like, it has special 'upgraded weapons' so it's an RPG 'long sword +2' style, or your weapons wear out so it's an RPG, or you can add scopes so it's an RPG. This is all absurd - but Arthur's ideas about RPG-ness being independent of traditional stats-and-levelling stuff is interesting. When I think CRPG, that's what I think of.
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Darth Raptor wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Zelda is an adventure game.
And so the jumping around and physical puzzles separate Zelda from Oblivion?
Zelda may have some RPG elements in it, but it is not an RPG game. It is an adventure game. That's how it's been labeled and sold.
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Post by Covenant »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Darth Raptor wrote:
DPDarkPrimus wrote:Zelda is an adventure game.
And so the jumping around and physical puzzles separate Zelda from Oblivion?
Zelda may have some RPG elements in it, but it is not an RPG game. It is an adventure game. That's how it's been labeled and sold.
The labelling and public perception is about all we can use to define it anyway. Honestly, by the strictest definition of an RPG, most of the ones on the market aren't. Role-playing generally refers to you taking on a role and playing it. Final Fantasy games deny you nearly any control of your role, how you play it, or the storyline at large. They even make it less of a Role Playing Game than, say, Half-life. Gordon Freeman, at least, doesn't have to save a single goddamn scientist if he doesn't want to, can be a coward or a hero or a sniper or whatever the hell you want him to be, and you even get a massive storyline decision or two to make every once in a blue moon.

Same with some of the quake/doom types of games, and especially true of System Shock. So calling most of the 'RPG' games out there a Role-Playing Game is really a logical misnomer, but it's how we define them.

That's the spirit of my above post. I don't honestly believe that all RPGs need levelling and intangible collectable rewards (gold, which on it's own is fairly worthless), but I do believe these are the markers that make people like Nintendo and IGN and such identify a game as an RPG.
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