StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Hey everyone, hope the board's doing well, I just dropped in because I'm heading out to college in a few months, and so I need to purchase a new laptop, and since this board is a wellspring of technical knowledge, I thought maybe I'd tap into it before making my purchase.

My current laptop is a Dell Inspiron 600m. It would be completely satisfactory if the years of abuse I have heaped upon it hadn't completely fucked it up. The DVD-R drive is constantly on the fritz, the fan is fucked, the computer routinely freezes during any game more complicated than Solitaire, the sound is fuzzy, and the hinges on the screen are broken, meaning I have to prop up the lid with a textbook if I want to use the thing.

So I'm in the market.

I'm trying to keep my purchase under $1,000 and preferably under $900. I'm sticking to PCs, and Dell is right out- my customer service experiences with them have been hell, so they're not getting another dime. I'm looking at a Toshiba, maybe a Lenovov ThinkPad, but that's flexible.

I don't need a super-advanced rig; the most technically demanding game I own is Call of Duty 2, and mostly I'll be using the computer for music, research, and the Internet. I do need a DVD-burner and wireless capability, though.

I have a couple of general questions regarding some the customization options Toshiba and other companies offer. Should I go with Windows Vista, or stick to XP? Is upgrading from a Celeron to Pentium or an IntelCore really worth eighty bucks? If I shell out sixty bucks for a 2.00 Ghz IntelCore as opposed to a 1.86, how much a performance increase am I getting? What about 1024MB as opposed to 512MB? Is the "nVIDIA® GeForce® Go 7300 with 128MB dedicated graphics memory" worth paying the $75 it costs to upgrade from a "Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 with 8MB-256MB dynamically allocated shared graphics memory"? Is " Intel® Wireless WiFi Link 4965 AGN (802.11a/g/n)" truly "Up to 5X faster than (802.11a/b/g)", and is it worth the 30 bucks? These are the questions which haunt my dreams....and only you can make the nightmares go away.

HemlockGrey wrote:I have a couple of general questions regarding some the customization options Toshiba and other companies offer. Should I go with Windows Vista, or stick to XP? Is upgrading from a Celeron to Pentium or an IntelCore really worth eighty bucks? If I shell out sixty bucks for a 2.00 Ghz IntelCore as opposed to a 1.86, how much a performance increase am I getting? What about 1024MB as opposed to 512MB? Is the "nVIDIA® GeForce® Go 7300 with 128MB dedicated graphics memory" worth paying the $75 it costs to upgrade from a "Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 with 8MB-256MB dynamically allocated shared graphics memory"? Is " Intel® Wireless WiFi Link 4965 AGN (802.11a/g/n)" truly "Up to 5X faster than (802.11a/b/g)", and is it worth the 30 bucks? These are the questions which haunt my dreams....and only you can make the nightmares go away.

1. Check with your college on the OS. Many colleges provide their students with an OS, and even if they don't they'll almost certainly have an IT Department around for support.
2. Processor depends on what you'll be using it for. If you're really not gaming and you're not likely to be a math/econ/stat/etc. major you probably won't need the extra number crunching. A gig of RAM is definitely worth it, unless you can get it for cheaper and upgrade it yourself.
3. Since you do play some games, you may want to invest in a real graphics card (the integrated graphics really aren't sufficient).
4. Check with your college re: wireless availability. If they don't have the infrastructure, upgrading your wireless connection is pointless.

I'd stick with XP for now. Performance-wise, if you can swing a Core Duo or a Core 2 Duo, I think you'd be much happier. 1GB is better than 0.5GB. That GeForce Go GPU is much better than the GMA 950. The 4965 WLAN is not all that useful right now since 802.11n isn't even done yet.

My laptop right now is capable of running most of the games I play, some of which have heftier graphics capabilities than CoD 2. As it is I only paid $750 for it, and later upgraded the ram to 2gb, so it's well under $1k. (I have an HP dv6000US, 2.2ghz Turion64, w/ integrated graphics chip). You could probably find a comparable Toshiba in the same price range, and I'd certainly recommend at least a gig of ram minimum. You probably won't need dual core chips, though if it offers them for negligible cost increase, go for it.

I own a Toshiba laptop and something I can tell you is that it is a good resistant machine.

1GB RAM is definitely the way to go. I speak from the experience: my laptop used to have 256MB, and when I upgraded it to 1GB I noticed how slow it really used to be. Basically it will allow you to run more processes at the same time, therefore making it faster.

About the processor, Core is a good option and the more power you can afford the better .However, as it was mentioned before it depends on what you will use it for: if you will only use it to browse the web, and stuff like that you will not need much power, but if you plan to use it for games go for the 2.0 GHz option.

About the DVD burner, go for a double layer DVD +- RW (there are several kinds of DVD disks out there, and this kind of burner will allow you to burn any kind of them).

When it comes to wireless you must understand something: there are different kinds of wireless networks. The 802.11b is an old one and will allow you to connect at 11Mbps, the 802.11g will allow you to connect to 56Mbps. The n I'm not so sure since I've never used it but I believe I read somewhere that it is indeed faster. Keep in mind that to use it at full speed you would need to connect to that kind of network, and that if that kind of network is not available there you will not be able to use it to it's full speed (for example, most networks around here are 802.11b and g, so I would not be able to use one like that at full speed). ou should investigate if in your college you will have that kind of wireless network first.

The graphics cards are not my area of expertise, but If I understand it correctly the nVidia has a dedicated memory of 128 MB (that sounds good), but the Intel one works with shared memory, meaning that you can configure how much memory you want up to 256MB, but that will we taken from your RAM memory, so I don't believe it would be a good choice.

I'd stick to XP for now, untill all the bugs are fixed.

My Asus A8jS has really good specs (Core Duo T7200, Geforce 7700 512MB, 1440x960) at a small size (14.1") and low price ($1500) but build quality is pretty bad - screen flex, and a key popped off after barely 4 months of use.

If you can swing it, try and get the accidental damage warranty. It'll cost you a few hundred more, but I think they're well worth it, considering the abuse laptops tend to go through.

The ThinkPad T-series is about the best portable you can get, but it is pricey (though Lenovo is having a sale right now!). HP's business line is also fairly well regarded.

ANGELUS wrote:I own a Toshiba laptop and something I can tell you is that it is a good resistant machine.

I own a Toshiba laptop and it has given me more headaches than a laptop should.

VF5SS wrote:

ANGELUS wrote:I own a Toshiba laptop and something I can tell you is that it is a good resistant machine.

I own a Toshiba laptop and it has given me more headaches than a laptop should.

what kind of hedeaches? mine has worked fine, and other than the low RAM memory that I described earlier I haven't had any problem (wich as I mentioned is now fixed since I upgraded it to 1GB).

General Zod wrote:My laptop right now is capable of running most of the games I play, some of which have heftier graphics capabilities than CoD 2. As it is I only paid $750 for it, and later upgraded the ram to 2gb, so it's well under $1k. (I have an HP dv6000US, 2.2ghz Turion64, w/ integrated graphics chip). You could probably find a comparable Toshiba in the same price range, and I'd certainly recommend at least a gig of ram minimum. You probably won't need dual core chips, though if it offers them for negligible cost increase, go for it.

HP notebooks have really good graphics for the money that you pay (vastly better than Dell). I also think that they feel more "solid."

My fiancee was able to get much better graphics for her money with dell than HP, even after considering discounts for both (employee for HP, coupon for Dell). Also, near the end, she had nothing but problems with her HP (it ended with her powerjack melting). This was a consumer laptop, BTW, not business.

Vista probably doesn't matter (yet). Dedicated graphics is almost always better (at the very least, you end up with more RAM). Core 2s are the bomb right now. Cores aren't quite as nice, but still decent. And you definitely want at least 1GB of RAM (my desktop has 4GB).

ANGELUS wrote:
what kind of hedeaches? mine has worked fine, and other than the low RAM memory that I described earlier I haven't had any problem (wich as I mentioned is now fixed since I upgraded it to 1GB).

Often the speakers would fail to work on startup. I've also had a lot of overheating problems and a hard drive failure. I've encountered a lot of the chronic problems that a lot of people seem to have with Toshiba laptops.

If you're targeting the 1000$ mark and want decent game capability, you're going to have to compromise. The most likely compromise is taking an Turion64 CPU - they're good performers, but have a less sophisticated power management system so you're batteries are going to last less. However, if you do take that compromise, there are a number of Turion based laptops from various manufacturers with an ATI chipset with an integrated x1600 graphics, 15.4" widescreen (1280x800), a gig of ram, and so on, that are right around that price range. With that you get a balanced laptop that can play all of today's titles at its native resolution (the shooters have to be toned down a bit though), while being nice to use otherwise. Again, the only drawback is the battery time.

I personally own a laptop in that vein, MSI's M655, and I've been really happy with it. Running Vista on it without any driver problems that tend to crop up for people.

Thank you everyone for your input; it's been extremely helpful. I've narrowed it down to either a Toshiba (although the "chronic problems" webpage gives me pause) or a ThinkPad. Doing a quick Google search, ThinkPad was the only major brand of laptop where "XXXX Sucks" didn't yield a huge page of consumer complaints, which is a bonus.

If I go for the ThinkPad, I'll probably go for the R-series, specifically the R60. If I go with the Toshiba, I'll probably be picking the Satellite A200-ST2041, mostly because these are reasonably priced and allow for customization.

The only thing is that the ThinkPad is $200 more at what looks like the same level of performance. The ThinkPad has Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T7200, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, 1 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM , a 60gig hard drive and a DVD-R. It is $1,185.00....and that's on sale. If I drop

The Toshiba has Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2450, 1024MB PC2-5300 DDR2, nVIDIA® GeForce® Go 7300, a DVD-R and an 80gig hardrive, and is only $934.40. The only major difference I can see is the processor is "Core 2" for the ThinkPad as opposed to the "Core" for the Toshiba. Is that worth the extra 200 bucks? They offer other, cheaper Core 2 processors for the ThinkPad, but they're all 1.66 or 1.83 as opposed to 2.00. Is a 1.63 or 1.83 Core2 superior to a a 2.00 Core? Should I drop an extra paycheck in order to get the Core2? Or will I be perfectly satisfied with a straight-up CoreDuo?

The Satellites are awful in terms of sturdyness. Get the Thinkpad, or if you must go Toshiba, get a Tecra. .



...That said, I'm somewhat biased since I tend to roughly treat laptops, a ancient tecra has died on me while a similarly ancient thinkpad is still running (barely), and the thinkpads look more sleek.

HemlockGrey wrote:Thank you everyone for your input; it's been extremely helpful. I've narrowed it down to either a Toshiba (although the "chronic problems" webpage gives me pause) or a ThinkPad. Doing a quick Google search, ThinkPad was the only major brand of laptop where "XXXX Sucks" didn't yield a huge page of consumer complaints, which is a bonus.

If I go for the ThinkPad, I'll probably go for the R-series, specifically the R60. If I go with the Toshiba, I'll probably be picking the Satellite A200-ST2041, mostly because these are reasonably priced and allow for customization.

The only thing is that the ThinkPad is $200 more at what looks like the same level of performance. The ThinkPad has Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T7200, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400, 1 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM , a 60gig hard drive and a DVD-R. It is $1,185.00....and that's on sale. If I drop

The Toshiba has Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2450, 1024MB PC2-5300 DDR2, nVIDIA® GeForce® Go 7300, a DVD-R and an 80gig hardrive, and is only $934.40. The only major difference I can see is the processor is "Core 2" for the ThinkPad as opposed to the "Core" for the Toshiba. Is that worth the extra 200 bucks? They offer other, cheaper Core 2 processors for the ThinkPad, but they're all 1.66 or 1.83 as opposed to 2.00. Is a 1.63 or 1.83 Core2 superior to a a 2.00 Core? Should I drop an extra paycheck in order to get the Core2? Or will I be perfectly satisfied with a straight-up CoreDuo?

CoreDuo and Core2 are codewords for effectively the same thing, dual-core chipsets. Depending on what your tie-breaker is, the Thinkpad might be a better choice if you want solid construction. Dual core chips will perform notably better than a single core 2ghz chip, so I'd recommend going with those instead. Since you don't seem to have any cpu heavy games (cod2 isn't that instensive), then you should be fine with either for graphic capabilities.

VF5SS wrote:Often the speakers would fail to work on startup. I've also had a lot of overheating problems and a hard drive failure. I've encountered a lot of the chronic problems that a lot of people seem to have with Toshiba laptops.

mmm... that sound bad. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones.

Tragedy has struck as I am now presented with a third option, which has left me as utterly baffled as I was before.

I took a look at customizing a dv6000t series PC from HP. This baby has a Core 2 Duo, the GeForce, the 1GB of Ram, and only costs $850. Am I missing something? Is there some drawback that makes HP so much cheaper?

HemlockGrey wrote:Tragedy has struck as I am now presented with a third option, which has left me as utterly baffled as I was before.

I took a look at customizing a dv6000t series PC from HP. This baby has a Core 2 Duo, the GeForce, the 1GB of Ram, and only costs $850. Am I missing something? Is there some drawback that makes HP so much cheaper?

The one drawback with my own HP is that it gets a little . . .warm, under the touchpad region. But beyond that it performs relatively well and the one time I've had to send it in for service it was back up and running in under 48 hours.

The HP will last less than 3 years. You'll need an extended warranty with accident protection. For the extra cash for the Thinkpad, you get a business class laptop, which should last much longer.

I just saw your sig, where it says in bold-print: "I write shitty software ... with bugs!" I don't know why, but I laughed my ass off for a full minute.

General Zod wrote:CoreDuo and Core2 are codewords for effectively the same thing, dual-core chipsets.

The Core2 Duo is a slightly more advanced version of the Core architecture. For notebooks, the difference usually isn't that great in performance, but on desktops it's pretty significant.

I agree with Zod's advice on a dual-core CPU, though--get one if you can at all afford to.

Darth Wong wrote:I just saw your sig, where it says in bold-print: "I write shitty software ... with bugs!" I don't know why, but I laughed my ass off for a full minute.

I'm a programmer. That statement applies to every programmer. I'm at least honest about it.

My toshiba went in 3 times for warranty on the power connector and at the same time I also had other issues on the mother board. never again....

After doing some research, the Pentium Dual-Core (distinct from Pentium D) is basically a Core Duo with a cut down cache. You might also want to look at laptops with one of those.

As far buggy software goes: Faulty security patch hangs Windows.