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So, I was playing GalCiv II, and yet again I won through an influence victory. However, I did so by building up the technological and military-industrial complex of the peace-loving Alterrans

That game saw two wars of attrition that saw the extermination of my allies (the Torians and Drath, both of which were one-system powers due to unfortunate map placement) at the hands of the Korath clan, the conquest of several minor races not fortunate enough to be within my sphere of influence, the elimination of the Drengin Empire as a credible military threat to the Alterran people, and the conquest of several worlds that gave me a military presence on the doorstep of the aforementioned Korath Clan and Drengin Empire.

Anyways, at the end of the game, I was well into my second war against the Korath (declared by me because they were massing warships right next to my planets) and had already liberated several planets from the clutches of the Korath, their fleet was shattered and unable to mount a proper defense of their worlds (let alone an offensive campaign), and I was poised to take their core systems and leave them a tattered remnant of their former glory (ironically, occupying the systems they conquered from the Drath Legion) when they sued for peace.

I indulged them, as any period to rest and rebuild my depleted (but still quite substantial) fleet of warships would benefit me much more than it would benefit the Korath, and the Drengin at that point could only sit back and impotently watch as the Alterrans and Korath surpassed them by leaps and bounds. However, the unexpected happened.

Once unhindered by war, Alterran influence immediately permeated the small portion of galaxy not already under my control. It seeped into the hearts and minds of those that, only a scant few weeks before were my most dire enemies (and who's government still was itching, however foolishly, for a rematch) and convinced them of the error of their ways. In other words, I won the game even though the only major powers left bitterly hated me and all the surviving minor races were terrified of my military might.

So, anyone else find that it's too hard not to win through Influence or Diplomacy (which usually turns out as you and your allies curbstomp the alliance your enemies set up)?

I know a lot of people turn off influence victories, because they like crushing people. But from my experience, if you're militarily owning people influence victories come when you've beaten everyone anyway (that super event that makes your influence huge excepted) and I'm not a fan of the boring 'fly around killing 2,000 guys with no chance to win' phase. Cultural victories always struck me as being an example of impotent governments that hate you being forced along by massive public opinion.

The super event is *really* stupid, though. I've won because of the temproary influence boost, and that's stupid (since when it wears off I can't 'un-win'.

What's funny is that I turned off the mega-events, tech-trading, and surrenders because I figured that would make the game harder (it only made it more competitive among the AI, but at no point was I seriously in danger of losing the lead).

Oh well, maybe it's time to start letting the AI cheat with their economy, or playing the factions as they are instead of twinking out their bonuses and governments.

You must be way better than me: I play on the higher non-cheating AI levels and have quite a hard time early-mid game. It's strange that your influence washed over your ex-enemies so quickly: you must have had a significant tech lead.

The last time I checked, the only difficulty settings you can play at where the AI's run at 100% are the two above "normal", so I play there. Anything higher, and the AI gets freebies.

But yeah, I get a major lead due to aggressive planet-grabbing early on in the game coupled with my customization of my faction bonuses. Usually that first part plagues you with major budget troubles mid-game, but I can usually forstall that by teching up the economy branch of the tree, then getting Xeno Ethics so I can declare my alignment as Good.

Xeno Ethics is such a sploit!

It occurs to me that your galaxy map settings may also have something to do with your difficulty in getting a lead. I usually play a medium or large galaxy with abundant stars, common planets, and occasional habitable planets. That way, even if I do get shafted on placement on the map, I can still grab some planets and carve out a domain for myself instead of being totally screwed.

Stark wrote:Xeno Ethics is such a sploit!

Damn straight it is, especially when you've got three Banking Centers / Stock Markets running side by side with xeno farms and whatever morale boosting improvements you're currently at on your major worlds.

What distribution do you use? I usually use 'loose' or 'clumps', only rarely random. This sometimes results in being stuck in lame places, but I despise ctrl-N scumming. I play large and up depending on number of players.

I'm just really bad at running planets. Flash can get every planet making piles of money (he's one of those +2000bc a turn inside a year people) but I don't. It's just my diplomacy and military that keep me alive long enough to start the MoO-traditional Death March of Super Death Ships.

I've always played with some variation of clusters, and almost always on medium or large maps with only five or six players. I've tried larger, but then I always get shafted with the galactic speed limit mega-event which means that my precious hyperdrives and gravatic accelerators are useless, and any game takes twice as long as it should to reach its inevitable conclusion of diplomatic or influence victory.

I can't get to the 2k BC a turn point without severely gimping the research and industry which give me an edge, but I tend to have a distributed infrastructure, with only a few planets specializing due to bonuses. I know the advantages of specialization, but it's easier to make two dozen warships on short notice when you spread it across two dozen planets rather than giving the job to three or four specialized shipyards. Diversifying my planets also allows me to quickly upgrade local infrastructure (namely the economic improvements) when new tech rolls around, which is critical in maintaining a lead at higher difficulty levels, and reduces the overall loss I suffer when the Korath blow up all my defending vessels then sneak in a Spore Ship.

Heh, playing a new game with myself as the Altarians, and AI Drath, Korath, Terrans and Torians (again, tech trading & megaevents disabled). Earlier in the game I kicked the Korath's asses so hard that they went from an evil-alignment to a good-alignment. I got everybody back to a nice quiet status quo to see how they'd act.

Of course, they and the Terrans go Macharius on the Torians and a bunch of minor races who live within my borders (actually, within the same system as some of my more prosperous planets). I prepare for this by building a ton of influence starbases near the soon-to-be conquered planets so they'll flip-flop faster than an Iowa primary. The Torians die pretty fast, due to being stuck right in the middle of the Terrans and Korath, but the minor races hold out for a suprisingly long time before being conquered and then defecting.

The Terrans also declare war on the Drath, who are by this point coasting on what little glory they build up early in the game while I was teching. I go extend the war by giving the Drath some of my warships, and they respond by declaring war on me. The Korath are all too happy to jump in on my behalf, and it becomes a race to see who can swoop up the Drath worlds first. I win, taking four out of six or seven worlds, and most of the rest defect to me anyways thanks to the foolish use of Spore Ships instead of proper troopships.

Right now, the Terrans and Korath are in a slugging fest, and while the Terrans are losing, I think I'm gonna implement a lend-lease kinda program to bail the Terrans out while at the same time paving the streets of Altaria with the credits I'm gonna get out of that.

I just finished a Technology Victory. (Do you REALIZE how many discovery spheres it took to make that just feasible?! Hint: Loads.) Anyhoo. I just did my best to make peace with everyone in the galaxy. Even the Dread Lords. You don't fuck with me, I won't fuck with you. But apparently, lookling like a goat-thing on acid doesn't make you alot of friends. First off, everyone and their brother allied with the Yor Collective. So, just remember that part.

I thought I would be "Diplomatic" and build a gi-fucking normous influence starbase (Complete with ship pounders, defense systems out the ass and a cultural insurrection pod) But...you know, Diplomatic. so that the copious quantities of mineral rich asteroid mines would...beam their shit my way (Yor had like 6 asteroids to my two, pissed me off.) Well, APPARENTLY, someone told the Yor about my "Defense capabilities" (Meaning they could have thrown their whole fleet at this starbase and it would have laughed it off.) and they declare war on me.

FINE, ASSHOLES! Time to let loose my new "Decimator" Class combat invasion ship. (Three plasma II cannons, 2 adv troop pods, two invulnerability fields and a couple Duranthium or whatever armor thingies. Oh, and ultra support. Two of those, too.) Took 12 weeks to make just one when New Yor (My Home planet) was focused militarily. So, I go up and BLAMMO, there go Yor's Orbital defense force. BLAMMO, there goes their surface defenses, and I got me a new planet. Hehehe.

But I lose my very expensive ship in the process. I hate that. anyhoo, This goes on for awhile, I take three Yor worlds, then I beg for peace.

We go on, yadda, yadda, yadda, I get sick of their little clandestine military starbases near my worlds so, war time again, three worlds later, I beg for peace again (The Yor collective have overrun the galaxy at this point, they had like, I dunno 25 worlds to my 13 and the altarian's 6, then the other minor factions with 2 or somesuch and somehwere out there the Dread Lords and the Terrans. I think I saw the terrans once, and the Dread Lords declared War on me, took one planet, which I promptly "Decimated" and took back and I never saw them again.)

Then I go on a "Spend every last dime in research and build discovery spheres like nutso" binge. Cause, you know, it's late and I got an interview tomorrow. So, long story short, 30 weeks later, the entire Iconian Refuge converts themselves to energy and goes to join Xenu and Galactus at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe for some Omnipotent Bailey's and Coffee.

Good game!!

Is this with or without the Dark Avatar expansion? I don't have it.

I've been meaning to install GalCiv II on this PC but havent' gotten around to it yet.

Has anyone managed to play off two larger, more powerful empires against each other? It seems that in the realm of diplomacy, you can only truly bargain if you're economically AND militarily superior to your opponent, and since that usually translate to technological and cultural superority, it just seems that diplomacy is a game for high end winners.....


Other than tech transfers, it just seems that diplomacy isn't a game winner and more a chance to play to your ego.

Vympel wrote:Is this with or without the Dark Avatar expansion? I don't have it.

I've been meaning to install GalCiv II on this PC but havent' gotten around to it yet.

Mine is in the DA universe. Using the Milky Way Custom Map.

Man, I really wanted to take earth, but meh, it's only a class 10, and not exactly the richest in terms of asteroids.

I personally love GalCivII, though it can be rather depressing to be an underdog power.

As for using diplomacy to play off superpowers? I'm sort of doing that right now; I allied with a hopeful-looking power early on, and they're basically my "or-else" thug to keep the other big superpower from making good on its threats. They've actually come in handy twice in horribly reaming an enemy mid-range power who has been trying to use war and bullying against me since early game.

To answer the OP, since I couldn't find it elsewhere in the thread, a military victory is extremely easy to accomplish. You can't win a cultural victory while being a participant in a conflict, so don't ever end the conflict you are in. To solve the problem of diplomacy being your key to success, dissolve your alliance before the last of the enemy alliance is eliminated. You should be the United States of the galaxy by this time, and able to conquer everything else without assistance.