StarDestroyer.Net BBS

So here I am rearranging things in my place and I'm moving my computer desk which hasn't changed its place in many a year. I notice my cable modem doesn't have enough slack to move it to where I want to go so I have to buy a longer CAT cable to extend it and during all of this I start doing research on broadband services and options.

A friend of mine strongly recommends Verizon DSL (he has it) and his biggest two selling points: $15 a month and you can get it wireless.

I pay @$50 a month for my cable broadband and the cable company does not offer wireless cable service.

Wireless happens to be a nice selling point right now since I had the issue with having to buy more stuff in order to just move my modem from one side of the room to another.

However I have always thought that DSL was slower than Cable and I don't want to take a step back. $15 a month however with woreless looks mighty tempting.

Anyone have any insight on which way to go with this decision? Any ins and outs of DSL as opposed to Cable? Other broadband option possibilities are also welcome.

I've used both Cable and DSL. Cable is faster on theoretical burst speed, but I did not find that this translated into real-world performance. The system seemed to be bottlenecking elsewhere, probably because of bandwidth sharing issues.

As for wireless, you don't need to get that from your cable company. Just go buy yourself a wireless router; they're dirt-cheap nowadays. Personally though, I still prefer a wired connection if I can get one. It's much faster and more reliable, and nobody can hack into it and use your Internet connection without your permission (you can prevent that with WEP, but most people don't even know how to set that up).

Darth Wong wrote:Personally though, I still prefer a wired connection if I can get one. It's much faster and more reliable, and nobody can hack into it and use your Internet connection without your permission (you can prevent that with WEP, but most people don't even know how to set that up).

I hadn't thought about the hacking/stealing bandfwidth issue, Mike. Thanks for the headsup.

Darth Wong wrote:you can prevent that with WEP

*cough*

Darth Wong wrote:I've used both Cable and DSL. Cable is faster on theoretical burst speed, but I did not find that this translated into real-world performance. The system seemed to be bottlenecking elsewhere, probably because of bandwidth sharing issues.

As for wireless, you don't need to get that from your cable company. Just go buy yourself a wireless router; they're dirt-cheap nowadays. Personally though, I still prefer a wired connection if I can get one. It's much faster and more reliable, and nobody can hack into it and use your Internet connection without your permission (you can prevent that with WEP, but most people don't even know how to set that up).

You really don't want to use WEP. That piece of shit encryption scheme can be hacked in less than a minute with a normal laptop if you know what you're doing. WPA-PSK or the otehr WPA encryption systems are the way to go and they're easier to set up to boot.

The $15/mo DSL package is their "slow" offering - which is more than fast enough for web surfing, email and the like but a bit slow once you do multimedia stuff. I'm not sure if they bundle their wireless router/modem device with that package either (it may be extra), but there are ways to hook up a wireless router to their wireline-only router/modem device.

Around here, Verizon does not throttle downloads nor do they cap bandwidth; the cable companies tend to be infamous for doing that. They also are less oversubscribed and there's less contention since you aren't sharing one cable line with the entire neighborhood.

Minor disclaimer: I used to work for VZ.

phongn wrote: Around here, Verizon does not throttle downloads nor do they cap bandwidth; the cable companies tend to be infamous for doing that. They also are less oversubscribed and there's less contention since you aren't sharing one cable line with the entire neighborhood.

Minor disclaimer: I used to work for VZ.

On the other hand, if your building or neighborhood has a terrible phone-line infrastructure that's rather old, your speeds are going to suck ass.

General Zod wrote:On the other hand, if your building or neighborhood has a terrible phone-line infrastructure that's rather old, your speeds are going to suck ass.

Right, and it also depends on distance to the CO. NYC isn't too bad off, though.

EDIT: Stravo, have you considered FIOS? It's more expensive, but pretty damn fast.

I got my Wi-Fi router package off Amazon for about fifty-quid. It's a Netgear with the modem router and a USB transceiver for the PC. It was a doddle to set-up and I had no problems connecting it in Windows XP and Ubuntu 7.04, though I did have to shift the thing downstairs to the phone outlet to set it up initially.

And I expect in America cable and DSL are both more expensive on average than here, but I find nothing wrong with my DSL connection. I more often than not have no speed issues at 8 megs and really, the only thing that limits my connection is the server at the other end.

And I use WPA2-PSK algorithms for encryption and allocate the MAC address to my machine, so even if you wanted to connect and break the password, you wouldn't be able to. I suffer no speed problems with the wireless either, despite my apprehension about Wi-Fi a few years back when I heard horror stories off friends. 802.11G is far more efficient though.

phongn wrote:

General Zod wrote:On the other hand, if your building or neighborhood has a terrible phone-line infrastructure that's rather old, your speeds are going to suck ass.

Right, and it also depends on distance to the CO. NYC isn't too bad off, though.

EDIT: Stravo, have you considered FIOS? It's more expensive, but pretty damn fast.

I have indeed looked at FIOS but I'm planning to move in the next year or two and I don't want to make that investment in my crappy old building when I can do it in my brand new condo/apt. So I will be looking at FIOS when I do move.

Well then, if you'll be living in NYC, you might want to check this story out...

What is it that you need, Stravo? Do you just need the connection to work inside your apartment instead of having a complete mobile connection that you can use from anywhere?

If you only need it to work in your home, you can go either the DSL or cable route and have it wireless inside the apartment. There are both WLAN DSL routers (e.g. the Zyxel Prestige 660HW series) and WLAN cable modems (e.g. Thomson TCW710, which is what I have). Whether DSL or cable, the WLAN configuration part of it is a piece of cake as long as you buy a quality modem instead of some piece of shit junk (which generally costs just as much but sucks seven different kinds of ass).

Price is one factor obviously, as you said. I don't know what kind of DSL infrastructure Verizon has in NYC, but downtime is a consideration. Cable problems are usually much faster to fix than DSL problems, because DSL problems tend to require a service technician to go and look at the DSLAM in the local phone exchange and possibly check the connections in the house basement of your apartment block (or wherever the building exchange is). Depending on whether they do field servicing on the cheap and with resources stretched to the max, any problem with the connection could take a while to fix. The ISP I work at has a general response time of 1-5 weekdays on DSL problems, but it can be assumed that the problem will take about 3 days to a week to fix if it requires a field technician.

Cable problems are usually of a different nature and tend to be fixed more quickly, but I've no idea of what kind of service packages, infra and procedures you have in this regard in the US (the download caps etc, which are actually illegal here).

$15 a month for a DSL is cheap, but that depends on connection speed. I'd assume around 1-2 Mbit/s at that price and the economies of scale the large population base there gives. $50 a month for cable is reasonable if the connection is fast and the other terms of service are good. I pay €36 per month for a 4Mbit/s cable connection with no download caps and no connection sharing with anyone (i.e. it's guaranteed at that speed), but that's with the Finnish infra and other setup.

My advice should be taken with the grain of salt due to the differences, but I expect phongn will be able to fill you in on what I can't.

That particular $15/mo package is a 768/128 connection; for $28/mo he can get a 3M/768 connection. Both those prices require a 2-year contract; for $2-3 more a month he can get them without contract.

Verizon will provide a modem/router combo unit with the service; one does not usually buy a DSL modem in the US.

phongn wrote:That particular $15/mo package is a 768/128 connection; for $28/mo he can get a 3M/768 connection. Both those prices require a 2-year contract; for $2-3 more a month he can get them without contract.

Verizon will provide a modem/router combo unit with the service; one does not usually buy a DSL modem in the US.

Out of curiosity, whenabouts did they start providing modem/router combo units? I started getting Verizon DSL three years ago and it was just a DSL modem.

Uraniun235 wrote:Out of curiosity, whenabouts did they start providing modem/router combo units? I started getting Verizon DSL three years ago and it was just a DSL modem.

Out here in the Tampa Bay (former-GTE) area they've been doing it for years. When we started they were only giving out modems (on the frame-relay network) but when we were switched over to ATM they gave us a Westell modem/wireless router. My grandparents also received one, too.

phongn wrote:That particular $15/mo package is a 768/128 connection; for $28/mo he can get a 3M/768 connection. Both those prices require a 2-year contract; for $2-3 more a month he can get them without contract.

Verizon will provide a modem/router combo unit with the service; one does not usually buy a DSL modem in the US.

Modem/router combos tend to come with the connection here too, but they are fairly basic models. The problem with some of the basic models is that their configuration interfaces

Many people buy their own if they want a better one. Many people also end up buying new ones because they fail to unplug them during thunderstorms, which usually results in a fried modem and often a fired network card as well.

As for my goals with this connection this would be strictly for home use. I would be surfing the web, dowloading movies/music, your standard home internet stuff. I would very rarely be using this connection to work from home. However I do a lot of downloading of big files like games, movies, music and sometimes I find that its just not as fast as I would like it to be so I definitely want to get as fast a connection as I can and this $15 option from what phongn is saying is a slower than standard connection so I would definitely want the next step up package if that's the case.

Stravo wrote:As for my goals with this connection this would be strictly for home use. I would be surfing the web, dowloading movies/music, your standard home internet stuff. I would very rarely be using this connection to work from home. However I do a lot of downloading of big files like games, movies, music and sometimes I find that its just not as fast as I would like it to be so I definitely want to get as fast a connection as I can and this $15 option from what phongn is saying is a slower than standard connection so I would definitely want the next step up package if that's the case.

I'm not sure what cable prices are like in New York, but here in Denver you can get an 8mb Comcast line for $36 a month. Requires a contract but if you move you can just transfer your service to the new location.

General Zod wrote: I'm not sure what cable prices are like in New York, but here in Denver you can get an 8mb Comcast line for $36 a month. Requires a contract but if you move you can just transfer your service to the new location.

I have never really tested my cable connection out. Its supposed to be something like 7mb line but I really feel like it's a lot less than that whenever I'm downloading or viewing lots of images on a forum because sometimes it can be real slow. I really need to sit down and check my connection speed and see what kind of performance I'm really getting.

Stravo wrote: I have never really tested my cable connection out. Its supposed to be something like 7mb line but I really feel like it's a lot less than that whenever I'm downloading or viewing lots of images on a forum because sometimes it can be real slow. I really need to sit down and check my connection speed and see what kind of performance I'm really getting.

A lot of it depends on the server at the other end as well. If their host is slow then you'll be somewhat hampered. Speedtest can give you a pretty good idea of what your performance should be.

My cable provider (Insight Communications) advertises '10Mbps' speeds.

During 'off peak' hours (which is when I usually am on, since I work 2nd shift), my Insight 10Mbps broadband actually reaches that speed if the server on the other end is capable of keeping up.

OTOH, when everyone and their brother is on the 'net in my node in the early evening hours, my speed drops to an average of 4-6 Mbps.

I pay $102/month for a cable/internet/phone package that includes caller ID, call forwarding, etc, along with 3 hours a month of nationwide long distance, cable internet, and basic non-digital cable TV.

It's probably not the greatest deal, but since the only TV I watch consists of NFL football and the History Channel, and my TV is a 20 year old 27" Sony, I don't need digital cable with HDTV.


Frankly, I love the idea of 'a-la-carte' CATV, as then I'd only be paying for the channels I watch, instead of subsidizing Bubba's ESPN habits.

OTOH, my uncle has AT&T DSL, and I've been less than impressed with both the speed and uptime of the system.

But as others have said, DSL quality depends upon a lot of factors, so YMMV.